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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by amauet1 View Post
    Thanks for the response, just trying to keep the thread and conversations open. I also try (but it is very hard) to keep my emotions out of it of my posts. I guess what I was getting at is I myself, really don't know anything about why these murders happened after a year and a half. The things I listed are what I've gathered in my notes from here and other websites, media, etc. I am still not any farther than the beginning of this case. I know more about the family, the community and surrounding areas. Some about neighbors and a whole lot of rumors.
    IMO, everything I do know has come from media, (trying to get a sensational story out), opinions from devastated family members and carefully guarded LE, AG, and BCI. Why all the secret's? What are "they" trying to keep from us the public and supposed suspects?
    We all have at least a couple of theories by now, but I'd like to introduce another.
    One of the reason's I can think of is this has something to do with crooked officials in this region. It wouldn't be the first or last time this has happened. I don't know if it is past or present officials, but with all the secrecy it would implicate present. Do we have a bunch of "good ole boys" in high places? What does everyone else think of this possiblity? All this is JMO
    Over the last few months, this theory has become higher on my list.

    At first I thought perhaps the delay in solving the case was due to some other big ongoing investigation that would be compromised. Also thought it was going slow to protect federal agents working undercover on drug trafficking, etc. But it's been going on too long, now to justify those theories. The way LE went out of their way to stage the raids last summer with no participation from federal agents was very odd. Also the way they refused to question anyone from the W family, even though their home had been raided.

    The growing problem of addiction and drug use in the region, yet relatively few busts for drug trafficking also raises a red flag.

    In one of the last interviews DeWine gave, he let slip that there was only one person from BCI working full time on the case.

    The way DeWine's attorney fought so hard during depositions of the county coroner to prevent him from revealing that the AG & BCI did the redactions on the autopsy report. In the same deposition, the coroner said he didn't believe (nor did LE) that family had anything to do with the murders.

    Seems the investigation isn't very active. Took them over a year to raid, arrest and question the local gentry in the drug trafficking circles. Crickets since then. No press conferences for months. The grand jury process has silenced all family members and friends. A cold case with no one allowed to talk.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by amauet1 View Post
    Well while we wait and wait. Here's my summary of what I know so far, and this is JMO's.

    We have/had a close family with 3 children, 4 adults, 2 "legal" adults, and one 16 year old. Parents were divorced, but seemed to be reconciling. It was "complicated". They seemed to be living in separate residences. Households also contained 3/4 grandchildren and ?many dogs for protection/pets? Mother and children had all been living together next door to father for how long? Eldest son's girlfriend/fiance also lived there with them.
    A month prior to the murders, father purchased new property, down the road from his property. Cash down payment of 30,000 with 30.000 owed. In March 2016, mother, pregnant daughter, 1 grandchild and 16 yr. old move to new property. Eldest son, gf and 1 grandchild remain in the trailer, with cousin of son living with them? Cousin moves out about a week before murders? Father and his cousin remain in the other trailer on the property. Brother of Father and partner in "businesses" lives a few miles down from the rest of family.

    Entire family has a reputation for strong, no-nonsense people, who take care of their own problems. But also "good hearted" and a "giving" family. Kept to themselves pretty much, and seemed to be "low-key" in the community of Piketon. Lived on a road that was "isolated" pretty much from the community.

    Troubles we know the family was experenceing:

    CRsr, KR, GR, FR and DR where all involved in "businesses" in some way. BR, and DS and other extended family members helped in some way? (cars, grow, etc) Manley family who lived very close by were also "helping" ? Some neighbors may have been "helping" also, and possibly "knew" what was going on. Some could have resented being "used".
    ,
    CRjr was having trouble at school, fighting and getting into trouble. Fight with kids at Mc Donalds parking lot? He and FR involved with a neighbor, resulting in injuries?

    Dana and CRjr involved in altercation with RCA, resulting in restraining order againest RCA . Her arrest for assault on CRjr.

    Custody battle between JW and HR over Soph. Possible fight between CRsr and BW a couple of weeks prior to murders ? Maybe CRsr and BW had been business accosciates and best friends? But trouble between their children ended it?

    A lot of jealousy in extended families over CRsr's supposed "wealth" ?

    Grandfather CR arrested and convicted for "child molestation" supposedly to a minor family member. Anger toward CRSr and family for being involved in his early release from prison.

    Drug cartel involvement, has it been ruled out by local LE who have stated " killers are local"?

    Family on "alert" last couple of weeks, patroling properties and roads?
    Great summary of what we know so far. Good job!!!

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    WRT family jealousy over CRSr's "wealth", that's only speculation on social media. Neither LE nor anyone in the news media has ever mentioned there was such a thing.

    While CRSr and others had "businesses" all held down regular full time jobs to support their families. The other hobbies - derby cars, raising cocks for fighting, alleged MJ grow op - would have been for extra money.

    As for CRJr, it sounded to me like he was a typical 15-16 yo with temper problems - getting into an occasional fight. Another aspect of this family's life that seems to be blown out of proportion, JMO.

    People have mulled over the revenge theory based on Clarence Rhoden serving time in prison for alleged molestation charges, but that happened many, many years ago. JMO, not relevant. People don't hold onto anger or rage over a dead person for a decade, especially the kind of rage necessary to kill 8 fellow family members.

    Ohio LE has backed away from the drug cartel theory, but it's significant to note that the retired head of the DEA in Cincinnati thought from the beginning that it looked like the kind of mass killing done by a drug cartel. He would know, certainly more than PCSO, BCI or DeWine. I sure wish someone would do a follow up interview with him.

    Re: signs that the Rhoden family was upset about something in the weeks before the murders seems relevant. Leonard Manley mentioned a previous incident on UHR with PCSO coming out. He said the sheriff's officers behaved badly. He lamented that it would be covered up, "they've been covering this stuff up for years".

    https://www.facebook.com/GlobalNews/...0725427975222/

    LM says the W family tried to get Hanna to sign away parental rights to her daughter SR, just 2-3 weeks before the murders

    http://local12.com/news/local/questi...rch-properties
    Isn't the Lashee nursing home owned by the W'S?

  4. #379
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    Going back to Leonard Manley's interview shortly after the murders, he mentions the altercation the weekend before. Didn't he say the sheriff was up there or deputies? That they behaved like "snots", meaning they were very mean to the family. Was it related to the custody fight with Hanna's daughter that he referred to earlier in the interview?

    The Wagner family lived in Adams County. The grandparents lived in Scioto County. I wonder which LE was called to the scene of the altercation? If the W family had any pull with local law enforcement to help harass the Rhoden's wouldn't it be from officials in Adams Co? Recall, the W's were allowed to move to AK without their property being searched?

    Just food for thought.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    We don't really know that KR wasn't killed shortly after or even before the others. No information made public. Some of the information I read on the redacted AR's indicates he may have been killed around the same time as CRSr and others. Hard to say for sure, depending on other environmental factors affecting decomp. JMO
    Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.
    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    Going back to Leonard Manley's interview shortly after the murders, he mentions the altercation the weekend before. Didn't he say the sheriff was up there or deputies? That they behaved like "snots", meaning they were very mean to the family. Was it related to the custody fight with Hanna's daughter that he referred to earlier in the interview?

    The Wagner family lived in Adams County. The grandparents lived in Scioto County. I wonder which LE was called to the scene of the altercation? If the W family had any pull with local law enforcement to help harass the Rhoden's wouldn't it be from officials in Adams Co? Recall, the W's were allowed to move to AK without their property being searched?

    Just food for thought.
    I didn't know if it was about the custody dispute, or if it was about the fracus with the boys out there joy riding.

    I think because of the way the road was split, it might be up to which ever side picked up the phone first. Both Pike and Adams County Sheriff's Departments are about 23 miles away from UHR. I've wondered throughout this if there has been a lot of cooperation between the counties.

    DR's home was located on the Adams side. Her address was UHR, Peebles, OH
    CR1's /GR's /FR/ & HHG homes were located on the Pike County side of the highway & their addresses were UHR, Piketon, OH
    KR's trailer was on LF Road, Rarden, OH and was in Scioto County
    LM's address is listed as UHR, Peebles, Oh and would be on the Adams County side.
    Let me live, so when it's time to die, even the Reaper cries. . . ~ RHCP

    (Unless there's a link, it's just a my own 2˘.)

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAISINISBACK View Post
    Isn't the Lashee nursing home owned by the W'S?
    I think it's owned by a nursing home corporation now, but not sure about back then.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.
    Yes, partly that and something else to do with the digestive tract, etc.. I'll have to check again. Some of it is speculation, since most info is redacted.

    Re the fracas that Leonard mentioned - what if it was about the custody dispute and other related things? Who knows?

    ETA: Also, if you read the depositions from the Columbus Dispatch AR lawsuit, the Piketon Coroner and BCI guy say they called a coroner from Adams County to examine some of the bodies at the crime scene, even though the Piketon coroner had an assistant with him. In the depositions, the name of the coroner isn't mentioned. I wonder how many deputies from other counties were at the crime scene?
    Last edited by Betty P; 10-12-2017 at 11:50 PM.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    We don't really know that KR wasn't killed shortly after or even before the others. No information made public. Some of the information I read on the redacted AR's indicates he may have been killed around the same time as CRSr and others. Hard to say for sure, depending on other environmental factors affecting decomp. JMO
    I need to re-read those reports because I thought for sure it said KR died later. Though if someone was purposely trying to make it look like a murder/suicide things could have been changed environmentally. The more someone changes a crime scene the more chances of being caught. IMHO I don't think anyone will know fully what happened until some outside LE gets involved. I would almost give my first unborn child to get a look at the complete autopsy reports.

    IMHO

  10. #385
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    Well, right there, the autopsies. Why are they still in limbo? Who has that kind of pull? The courts and the papers sueing have been going back and forth for over a year now. Every diversion tactic "they" can think of has been done. IMO "they" have also been using this "pull" to keep this case out of the news. It's like a lot of the media has been warned to "back off" this case.
    As most here know I have mentioned I am a recovering addict, and although my "habit" happened in another part of the country than where I live now, it was a similar place. The character's that were fellow user's came from all back rounds. Addiction has no particular type of person/person's. Low income, blue collar, rich, poor and professionals are included even clergy are included. When the drugs take you over, out goes your morals, good judgement and good character. The drug is in charge of everything you do. You have to have "it" to barely function. It's like you have to have it, like most people have to have that first cup of coffee in the morning. After a while you have to have more to get to where just a little used to get you going. It's a vicious cycle that will drive you crazy to "get it", just to get it. You find yourself doing and saying things you never "dreamed" you ever would.
    Now that I have explained a little about addiction, some can kinda understand what makes an addict tick. Like I said good judgement and good character go out the window. I used to know people who do almost anything to get what they needed. Theft, lying, and screwing your friends over are just a few. If some get desperate enough, murder can't be far away. Self preservation is very important to human beings. Can you imagine a/many "high" officials being in this kind of position? Your reputation lost forever, losing your family and friends and respect of a/many communities? Those reasons alone would be enough to stoop to murder.
    Most small towns (in the past and present) have officials that have been there for years, some are generational (fathers, sons, mothers, daughters, uncles, aunts, etc.) I call it the "good ole boys network". It's not just public officials, but usually includes lawyers, doctor's, police, anyone with power, money and influence in the community and streachs out past that community to surrounding ones and beyond. Everyone's got their hands out. It's as old as time, powerful people using the small people to get them farther into what they want. Could this be what is happening here. Not only do the "small people" of the community have to worry about someone murdering them in their sleep, but powerful people can also make their lives a living hell.
    From what I've learned about Pike Co and surrounding area's it seems there's a few people who are buying up land from foreclosures at bargain prices and reselling them at a profit, or putting "cheap" housing on the properties and selling them on land contracts. Knowing that the people who are buying them are eventually going to lose them. And who reaps the rewards? The land owners. JMO and something to think about.


  11. #386
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    Also, could the murderers have been some of the people they were having trouble with? Seems to me, some hated this family enough to almost "volunteer " to do this for someone, just because of their own reason's. I think those autopsies will reveal that hate when and if there ever released.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsctr View Post
    Yes they probably did use silencers since it seems so well planned out in advance. I hope there is still much action behind the scenes. I hate limbo!
    Can forensics tell if the bullets were fired through silencers?
    Does it leave any kind of distinguishing mark?

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by amauet1 View Post
    Well, right there, the autopsies. Why are they still in limbo? Who has that kind of pull? The courts and the papers sueing have been going back and forth for over a year now. Every diversion tactic "they" can think of has been done. IMO "they" have also been using this "pull" to keep this case out of the news. It's like a lot of the media has been warned to "back off" this case.
    As most here know I have mentioned I am a recovering addict, and although my "habit" happened in another part of the country than where I live now, it was a similar place. The character's that were fellow user's came from all back rounds. Addiction has no particular type of person/person's. Low income, blue collar, rich, poor and professionals are included even clergy are included. When the drugs take you over, out goes your morals, good judgement and good character. The drug is in charge of everything you do. You have to have "it" to barely function. It's like you have to have it, like most people have to have that first cup of coffee in the morning. After a while you have to have more to get to where just a little used to get you going. It's a vicious cycle that will drive you crazy to "get it", just to get it. You find yourself doing and saying things you never "dreamed" you ever would.
    Now that I have explained a little about addiction, some can kinda understand what makes an addict tick. Like I said good judgement and good character go out the window. I used to know people who do almost anything to get what they needed. Theft, lying, and screwing your friends over are just a few. If some get desperate enough, murder can't be far away. Self preservation is very important to human beings. Can you imagine a/many "high" officials being in this kind of position? Your reputation lost forever, losing your family and friends and respect of a/many communities? Those reasons alone would be enough to stoop to murder.
    Most small towns (in the past and present) have officials that have been there for years, some are generational (fathers, sons, mothers, daughters, uncles, aunts, etc.) I call it the "good ole boys network". It's not just public officials, but usually includes lawyers, doctor's, police, anyone with power, money and influence in the community and streachs out past that community to surrounding ones and beyond. Everyone's got their hands out. It's as old as time, powerful people using the small people to get them farther into what they want. Could this be what is happening here. Not only do the "small people" of the community have to worry about someone murdering them in their sleep, but powerful people can also make their lives a living hell.
    From what I've learned about Pike Co and surrounding area's it seems there's a few people who are buying up land from foreclosures at bargain prices and reselling them at a profit, or putting "cheap" housing on the properties and selling them on land contracts. Knowing that the people who are buying them are eventually going to lose them. And who reaps the rewards? The land owners. JMO and something to think about.
    WOW. Very insightful Amauet. Thank you for feeling comfortable enough with us to share your personal story and your victory overcoming it. (I think after a year and a half together, we here all feel a sort of "bond" on this thread and trust one another)

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    BBM
    I've thought about that on more than one occasion. They could come in and out, they'd know how to try and stage a scene, they'd know how to get past dogs, and they'd know the people and the area. No one mentioned the dogs acted freaked out that day except for KR's. CR1's pits were sitting in the recliner on the front porch, definitely out of place, per BJM, but not aggressive, and no one mentioned DR's dogs acting out. I think that KR's dog must have known KR's murderer because of DS having to restrain her that day. She didn't know them. Was there a person in an official position, who dropped by those places every now and then, that the family got entangled with? Idk, but, I'd think it possible.

    One of the reasons that I think it wasn't about a Mexican Cartel, or pot, is because of this interview:






    http://www.wcpo.com/longform/pike-co...-may-be-locals

    I don't know if they are still looking at them or not, but, early on they interviewed individuals from Chillicothe. Those may still be on the radar, but they just don't have enough to connect the dots for a slam dunk case yet.

    Video from WCPO (@5:00 minute mark)

    "It wasn't because they had a couple of little indoor grows. It wasn't because there was just a couple of cars on the property that may have been stolen," Reader said. "It's much bigger than that."
    How do they know this? What did they base this decision on. What can go on in the "backwoods" of southern Ohio that can warrant a response like wiping out a family? Did they witness something? Refuse to join in something? What could LE or politicians have that needs to be kept secret. I wouldn't think there could be too many things that big. Drugs, human trafficking, guns, or a HUGE political corruption. If it was LE or political corruption, how did the Rhodens find out about it?

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsd1200 View Post
    Are you referring to stomach contents? I did a whole research thing on stomach contents and t.o.d. and I cannot locate it! I guess I deleted off the far recesses of my hard drive. I've not had the get up and go to redo it.
    Stomach contents, body temperature, degree of rigor mortis, pooling of blood, etc. all can help determine the time of death fairly accurate.
    http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/h...-12116307.html
    http://www.writersdigest.com/qp7-mig...ensics-excerpt
    http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm

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