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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Northern California
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    8

    Stungun marks

    I just saw the show on MSNBC about JBR. A picture was showed of the possible stun gun marks and I could see a very faint hairline mark between the two round red marks on her skin. This hairline mark could correspond to the arcing that occurs when a stungun is used on the skin. Has anyone seen these marks?

    thnks for reading--mw, sacramento, ca

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    UK
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    2,389
    Welcome Duster.

    There's a very good website which discusses the stungun and the line between the marks at :-

    http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

    Additionally, Lou Smit claimed on the show that the blue vein showing between the marks on JonBenét was a product of the blue arc produced by the stun gun when discharged. Apparently Mr. Smit failed his high school electronics class, or he would have known that the color of an electrical arc has nothing to do with the burn you get from it. The arc from an Air Taser stun gun could no more leave a blue line than a lightening bolt could turn a person blue if they were struck by it. Welders who expose their skin to the intense blue arc produced by arc welding get a typical red sunburn, they don't turn into blue smurfs--nor would their finger turn blue if they were stupid enough to touch the arc. (And where are the blue lines on your pig tests, Lou? Didn't the fact that they weren't reproduced on the pig tell you anything?)
    Hope this helps Duster.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    I believe it was Lou Smit's idea of a stun gun. It's never been proven. He concluded this from a photo. The body has never been exhumed to check it out. I don't believe in the 'stun gun' theory.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    3,053
    duster,

    Even though I believe a Ramsey was involved somehow in the death of JonBenet, I also believe a stun gun was likely used on JonBenet.

    It's true the coroner, Dr. John Meyer, in his autopsy report originally identified the tiny twin marks on JonBenet as "abrasions", but he later changed his mind. Please refer to PMPT pb pg 431, "After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on John Benet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun."

    The stun gun site you were referred to is from Cutter, a former poster on this forum and a highly informed poster. However, Cutter made some measurement mistakes on his Stun Gun Myth website.

    For instance, Cutter measured from the inside edges of the twin marks on JonBenet and stated the distance was 2.9 cm. But the proper way to measure marks such as these is from center line to center line of the twin marks. In other words, from the middle of one mark to the middle of the second mark.

    When measured from center line to center line the distance is about 3.6 cm -- the same distance, center line to center line, of the actual electrodes on an Air Taser stun gun. These measurements can be lifted from the photos on Cutter's own website.

    Cutter's other main point was that the tiny rectangular marks on JonBenet didn't exactly line up. However, when a stun gun is applied to the soft and pliable skin of a human and slightly twisted, the resulting mark on the pliable skin will also be slightly twisted and not line up perfectly. This was confirmed by experiments I made on my own arm.

    Therefore, it appears that the evidence from the autopsy pictures show that a stun gun was likely used on JonBenet.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    968
    >I believe it was Lou Smit's idea of a stun gun.
    Actually Trip DeMuth and Lou Smit were going over the evidence together and each came to the same conclusion at that time.
    > He concluded this from a photo.
    Which is legally sufficient for an expert to base an opinion. A forensic pathologist does not need to examine tissue to form an opinion that a stun gun was used.
    >I don't believe in the 'stun gun' theory.
    I assume therefore that you are an adherent of the "Two well-trained Mosquitoes" theory.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Can you explain your two mosquito theory? I'm not familiar with it and how it connects to Lou and Trip. I think that might be what they started from, to transgress to the stun gun.

  7. #7
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    Which is legally sufficient for an expert to base an opinion. A forensic pathologist does not need to examine tissue to form an opinion that a stun gun was used
    I think that in this case it would not. You base this statement on one particular case which was quite different. If there were dozens of similar pairs of marks on JonBenet, then perhaps. However there is ONE pair and a single mark which MIGHT be oe of another pair. That is not sufficient evidence to demonstrate a pattern.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Why would anybody, intruder or not, have to use a stun gun to subdue JonBenet? She was a 45 pound (approximately) female child.

  9. #9
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    Aug 2003
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    Q. Who would need a stun gun to control a six-year-old girl?

    A. Perhaps a nine-year-old boy.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    missouri
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    655
    when and how would a 9 year old boy get a stun gun?
    this is just my opinion, it may be wrong, user beware!


  11. #11
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    Aug 2003
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    Through an adult family member?

  12. #12
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    Aug 2003
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    There's not many things hidden in a house that children can't manage to find.

    Just my opinion.

  13. #13
    MaxiGuest
    I wonder if a woman intruder perp would be more comfortable subduing a child with a stun gun than with her hands. It would give a little more emotional distance from the act.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    If it were a woman, that woman most likely would be a familiar face to JB, thus enabling her to get JB to do what she wanted, JMO, of course.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    2,199
    Even Dr. Dobersen himself conceded that it was impossible to tell if the marks on JonBenet's body were from a stun gun by just looking at photos. Dobersen said that in order to determine if they were stun gun marks, the marks would have to be examined firsthand, with the aid of a microscope.

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