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  1. #1

    What is racism? What is racism not?

    Same for bigotry.

    If this question were as simple as a dictionary definition, I wouldn't have started this thread (my first, inspired by reading the Rules Clarification thread)

    I will start with some examples and hopefully others will join of all political persuasions. I would request that for anything labeled racist, an explanation would be given as to why the poster believes it to be so.

    To me, racism is judging someone by the color of their skin and not the content of their character (to paraphrase Dr. King)

    What is not racist (but juvenile): calling Obama Obummer, etc.

    What is racist. comparing him or Michelle to monkeys; Joe Biden saying that Obama was the first mainstream AA who was articulate and bright, clean (paraphrasing).

    What is racist: a belief that the races should stay separate and not intermarry; racial preference in college admissions, or the idea that certain races are not capable of competing on an equal playing field with those of other races, even with the same socioeconomic background.

    What is not racist: reporting statistics by race - e.g. income by race, crime committed by race, criminal sentencing by race, race of individuals killed by police, recipients of public assistance by race; pointing out the skin color of individuals (e.g. there are no black actors on X tv show).

    What is not bigotry: reporting on frequency of sex abuse by Catholic priests and discussions of whether it is systematic; discussion of terrorist attacks where the attacker professes to do the act as part of their Islamic beliefs, discussing quiverfull (ref Duggars) beliefs and whether they are repressive of women, etc.

    What is bigotry: refusing to serve a homosexual in a restaurant. What is not bigotry: a florist refusing to provide flowers to a same sex wedding, seeing it as an endorsement of something the florist believes is morally wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigley's_Human View Post
    Same for bigotry.

    If this question were as simple as a dictionary definition, I wouldn't have started this thread (my first, inspired by reading the Rules Clarification thread)

    I will start with some examples and hopefully others will join of all political persuasions. I would request that for anything labeled racist, an explanation would be given as to why the poster believes it to be so.

    To me, racism is judging someone by the color of their skin and not the content of their character (to paraphrase Dr. King)

    What is not racist (but juvenile): calling Obama Obummer, etc.

    What is racist. comparing him or Michelle to monkeys; Joe Biden saying that Obama was the first mainstream AA who was articulate and bright, clean (paraphrasing).

    What is racist: a belief that the races should stay separate and not intermarry; racial preference in college admissions, or the idea that certain races are not capable of competing on an equal playing field with those of other races, even with the same socioeconomic background.

    What is not racist: reporting statistics by race - e.g. income by race, crime committed by race, criminal sentencing by race, race of individuals killed by police, recipients of public assistance by race; pointing out the skin color of individuals (e.g. there are no black actors on X tv show).

    What is not bigotry: reporting on frequency of sex abuse by Catholic priests and discussions of whether it is systematic; discussion of terrorist attacks where the attacker professes to do the act as part of their Islamic beliefs, discussing quiverfull (ref Duggars) beliefs and whether they are repressive of women, etc.

    What is bigotry: refusing to serve a homosexual in a restaurant. What is not bigotry: a florist refusing to provide flowers to a same sex wedding, seeing it as an endorsement of something the florist believes is morally wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk
    This is not fact.

    All those things that you listed are your own opinion on what is and what is not.. Others may differ on all of those things.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    This is not fact.

    All those things that you listed are your own opinion on what is and what is not.. Others may differ on all of those things.
    Which is exactly the point.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

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    I think that a business who makes cakes could have refused to make that cake, if it was against their religion. I have no problem with that. I do, however have a problem with them making a statement out of it. They could have just said, 'we can't fit you in, too busy', but they did not. They chose to make an issue of it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    Which is exactly the point.
    What point? The poster posted what is or is not, like some kind of authority on what is or isn't.

  6. #6
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    "What is racist: a belief that the races should stay separate and not intermarry; racial preference in college admissions, or the idea that certain races are not capable of competing on an equal playing field with those of other races, even with the same socioeconomic background.

    What is not racist: reporting statistics by race - e.g. income by race, crime committed by race, criminal sentencing by race, race of individuals killed by police, recipients of public assistance by race; pointing out the skin color of individuals (e.g. there are no black actors on X tv show)."

    Why would someone not believing in inter-racial marriages be racist? Sure most racist hold this view but holding this view is not racist in itself. Some people are purists, which is laughable in this day and age but that is their opinion. Since I do know some of these people I can attest they are not racist, but they want to keep their lineage as pure as possible. The people I am referencing are people of color, not white. Many of the Native Americans and Hispanics I know hold this view and yes some of them are racist but some are not what I deem as racist. So, I don't think anyone 1 person can say the thoughts or beliefs of another are racist, actions are though.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    I think that a business who makes cakes could have refused to make that cake, if it was against their religion. I have no problem with that. I do, however have a problem with them making a statement out of it. They could have just said, 'we can't fit you in, too busy', but they did not. They chose to make an issue of it.
    Perhaps lying is against their religion too? Pretty certain they are NOT the ones that put it out in the media.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCurious View Post
    Perhaps lying is against their religion too? Pretty certain they are NOT the ones that put it out in the media.
    It doesn't matter who put it on in the media. They said that to the people that they would not make the cake for. They did not have to, but they did.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    It doesn't matter who put it on in the media. They said that to the people that they would not make the cake for. They did not have to, but they did.
    Again, perhaps lying is against their religion

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCurious View Post
    Perhaps lying is against their religion too? Pretty certain they are NOT the ones that put it out in the media.
    Lying has never been a problem with Christians if it suits their agenda.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCurious View Post
    Perhaps lying is against their religion too? Pretty certain they are NOT the ones that put it out in the media.
    Even if lying isn't against someones religion I don't think that it's the right way to handle any situation let alone one involving race or homosexual marriage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooCurious View Post
    "What is racist: a belief that the races should stay separate and not intermarry; racial preference in college admissions, or the idea that certain races are not capable of competing on an equal playing field with those of other races, even with the same socioeconomic background.

    What is not racist: reporting statistics by race - e.g. income by race, crime committed by race, criminal sentencing by race, race of individuals killed by police, recipients of public assistance by race; pointing out the skin color of individuals (e.g. there are no black actors on X tv show)."

    Why would someone not believing in inter-racial marriages be racist? Sure most racist hold this view but holding this view is not racist in itself. Some people are purists, which is laughable in this day and age but that is their opinion. Since I do know some of these people I can attest they are not racist, but they want to keep their lineage as pure as possible. The people I am referencing are people of color, not white. Many of the Native Americans and Hispanics I know hold this view and yes some of them are racist but some are not what I deem as racist. So, I don't think anyone 1 person can say the thoughts or beliefs of another are racist, actions are though.
    A few years ago I read through some of the Storm Front forums to try and understand where their hatred came from. Whether they act on it or not, their thoughts and beliefs are racists. Statistics may not be racists but I find they are usually followed by racists comments.
    Last edited by rain88; 09-07-2017 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Clarity

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    I am almost certain there are other religions besides Christianity that frown on lying.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rain88 View Post
    A few years ago I read through some of the Storm Front forums to try and understand where their hatred came from. Whether they act on it or not, their thoughts and beliefs are racists. Statistics may not be racists but I find they are usually followed by racists comments.
    So Christians are bigots? They believe and act.

  15. #15
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    From the Anti-Defamation League:

    Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another.

    BIAS: An inclination or preference either for or against an individual or group that interferes with
    impartial judgment.

    PREJUDICE: Prejudging or making a decision about a person or group of people without sufficient
    knowledge. Prejudicial thinking is frequently based on stereotypes.

    MICROAGGRESSIONS: The everyday slights, indignities, put-downs and insults that people of color,
    women, LBGT populations and other marginalized people experience in their day-to-day interactions.
    Microaggressions can appear to be a compliment but contain a “metacommunication” or hidden insult to
    the target groups to which it is delivered. They are often outside the level of conscious awareness of the
    perpetrator, which means they can be unintentional. These messages may be sent verbally (“you speak
    good English”), nonverbally (clutching one’s purse more tightly) or environmentally (symbols like the
    confederate flag or using American Indian mascots).1

    IMPLICIT BIAS: The unconscious attitudes, stereotypes and unintentional actions (positive or negative)
    towards members of a group merely because of their membership in that group. These associations
    develop over the course of a lifetime beginning at a very early age through exposure to direct and indirect
    messages. When people are acting out of their implicit bias, they are not even aware that their actions are
    biased. In fact, those biases may be in direct conflict with a person’s explicit beliefs and values.

    I happen to think these definitions are well vetted and clear. I hope this helps in furthering this conversation.

    I believe I benefit from my whiteness. This was the hardest thing for me to embrace. Why? I grew up poor and, in fact, poorer than my neighbors of color. I didn't identify that I benefited from my whiteness because I had so little. I realized that I benefited from my whiteness when I got my first job and heard that my manager hired me rather than an African-American peer who had also applied for the job b/c he thought blacks were lazy and would scare customers away. I didn't have language for it until many years later. I have children of color who have been asked if they speak English or been told that they speak good English for a ______. People never assumed that my grandmother (a refugee from Eastern Europe) didn't speak English. But, my children who have grown up brown and yellow in this country have had that asked of them. The examples are many. My older son will tell you he experiences "microaggressions" all the time. I will tell you that I keep trying to better understand my privilege and, for years, winced at saying I was privleged. I also didn't recognize that I was racist--- not an active racist but have more of a passive racist---I don't use derogatory terms, don't believe it is right to see other races as less than me. However, I have been passive about calling out racism when I hear it or see it. That said, in the last five years I have been committed to speaking out and up. I made the decision to hold my family to a high standard and not let veiled comments slide. I work to ensure that my children and others treat people with dignity and respect while being aware that passivity is not an option unless you are in danger, emotionally or physically.
    Violence diminishes our humanity. ~Coretta Scott King

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