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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon10 View Post
    Mccain defending the principals America was built on while Graham tries to circumvent it. Shameful Lindsey, Loser Lindsey
    Maybe his surgery opened his eyes to the medical plight alot of americans experience and realized 99% of people are not rich and waspy.

  2. #17
    BritsKate's Avatar
    BritsKate is offline Past mistakes should teach you to create a wonderful future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    As an American using the NHS (which is one of the very few in the world that is administered wholly by government) what do you think of it?
    Honestly? I'm a bit mixed. I'm absolutely grateful for being able to have healthcare without worrying about going bankrupt or not being able to pay our mortgage. We've never had to wait long periods to see a doctor and my children's health care has been literally top notch - my husband is another matter. With him it's been a pretty arduous road - waiting for surgeries, a revolving door of specialists, and years after being disabled they're really just managing him rather than really helping him but on that, I don't know if care would be different stateside but I sure know there's no way we could afford it given our financial circumstances. ACA happened after I moved so I'm not sure how it would have affected us.

    I've lived without health insurance too sometimes when I still lived stateside - would never want to be back there. It felt like playing Russian roulette. JMO

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon10 View Post
    Maybe his surgery opened his eyes to the medical plight alot of americans experience and realized 99% of people are not rich and waspy.
    I think McCain just knows it is a really bad bill. And he's one of the few sane repubs calling for the appropriate process. And he is going against his best buddy Graham, which tells me the bill is really bad!!!

    I don't know, my letters are to both parties. How is it, why is it political? If the repubs had a great replacement, I'd be all for it, but I know they don't, and only government can hold the monstrous health care industry at bay.

    Thank heavens, for this country, for these three musketeers (Alaska, Maine, & Arizona) in the senate, right now!!!

    I love them!


  4. #19
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    BritsKate is offline Past mistakes should teach you to create a wonderful future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosemadderlake View Post
    I think McCain just knows it is a really bad bill. And he's one of the few sane repubs calling for the appropriate process. And he is going against his best buddy Graham, which tells me the bill is really bad!!!

    I don't know, my letters are to both parties. How is it, why is it political? If the repubs had a great replacement, I'd be all for it, but I know they don't, and only government can hold the monstrous health care industry at bay.

    Thank heavens, for this country, for these three musketeers (Alaska, Maine, & Arizona) in the senate, right now!!!

    I love them!
    I'm actually kinda ticked off over the whole affair even though I'm not personally affected. I'm old enough to recall when one of the chief arguments against the passing of the ACA was that once it became law, it'd hell to get rid of. And then they spent 7 years promising the next to impossible so now they're literally between a rock and a hard place.

    How high a price does one pay for political expediency though? Is it worth removing the possibility of healthcare for tens of millions of Americans? Is it worth upsetting the base that still favors repeal? And it's those warring factions on the Hill that keep leading us here - instead of admitting they lied to their constituents to get their votes and none of them understood how difficult healthcare reform would be simply because none of them wanted to.

    JMO

  5. #20
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    When Obamacare was first mooted, I was living overseas and sharing a big house with an American woman, who was as liberal as can be on all other issues. When I saw all the banners and marches against it, I asked her why and she was against it, because of taxes. She would rather have no health insurance than pay 3% more in taxes. I can't .get my head around that.

  6. #21
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    BetteDavisEyes is offline "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroon10 View Post
    Maybe his surgery opened his eyes to the medical plight alot of americans experience and realized 99% of people are not rich and waspy.
    I will shamefully admit that I didn't pay much attention to the inception of Obamacare because DH and I have always been blessed with outstanding healthcare through his employer/s. Even when coverage became too expensive for employers to provide 100% health insurance coverage, we were able to afford reasonable copays for medical procedures, physician visits, medications.

    I didn't really begin to take notice of the plight of millions of Americans who didn't/don't have healthcare until DH applied for Medicare when he turned 65, and now I, too, am on Medicare. One learns very quickly that Medicare has limitations on what is covered under the program and without supplemental, out-of-pocket expense, healthcare access for seniors is really quite limited. We're alright for now while DH works part-time and his employer pays for our Cadillac BCBS supplemental plan, but we may have to rethink this when he retires permanently.

    I don't know if I'd subscribe to a system of universal healthcare, but at the very least, I think all Americans should be entitled to basic healthcare access, i.e. Medicare for everyone. Supplemental coverage at their own expense would be an option like seniors have with Medicare.
    Last edited by BetteDavisEyes; 09-23-2017 at 01:21 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    I will shamefully admit that I didn't pay much attention to the inception of Obamacare because DH and I have always been blessed with outstanding healthcare through his employer/s. Even when coverage became too expensive for employers to provide 100% heath insurance coverage, we were able to afford reasonable copays for medical procedures, physician visits, medications.

    I didn't really begin to take notice of the plight of millions of Americans who didn't/don't have healthcare until DH applied for Medicare when he turned 65, and now I, too, am on Medicare. One learns very quickly that Medicare has limitations on what is covered under the program and without supplemental, out-of-pocket expense, healthcare access for seniors is really quite limited. We're alright for now while DH works part-time and his employed pays for our Cadillac BCBS supplemental plan, but we may have to rethink this when he retires permanently.

    I don't know if I'd subscribe to a system of universal healthcare, but at the very least, I think all Americans should be entitled to basic healthcare access, i.e. Medicare for everyone. Supplemental coverage at their own expense would be an option like seniors have with Medicare.
    Do you have a reason why you would not subscribe to universal health care?

  8. #23
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    Health care reform and health insurance mandates are two different things. ACA had impact on the insurance industry and made it federal law to have insurance. This did nothing to 'reform' care, how its administered, or its quality. Americans were spending more on medical services before ACA, with less return on health than other nations. We did not change that by a federal mandate to carry insurance, or by government trying to control a market that was out of control for reasons that have nothing to do with 'waspy' people, privilege, or actual costs of products and services.

    The problem with the health insurance industry is doctors and medical institutions eliminated the patient consumer from the equation and created a quid pro quo to get fat and happy together. And now doctors are servants to the insurance company - herding patients like cattle for 10 minutes at a whack, and spending more time charting and justifying their actions and prescriptions, and running interference on referral for specialty services, than being a doctor. And now they're stuck with having you fill out a form about how many times a week you feel sad or don't enjoy activities.

    I had a spot on my skin a year ago and called for a referral to a skin clinic. Nope, I had to come in and talk to the doctor first to, essentially, get permission. But he couldn't see me for over a month. So, I was offered an appt. with the PA. Ok. So I got there and had to fill out their special mood questionnaire. I was honest and noted/circled one of the options for sadness. I had lost my mother several months prior and my precious son 5 weeks later. So the PA comes in and says, "So what's this about, pointing to the question and answer sheet. I told him, and was tearful at having to mention my son, and he started asking me if I was suicidal or homicidal.

    ?

    I asked how bereavement was related to either and he said, "Well, you're depressed and sometimes people can think things...", and he pointed to his head and asked, "How are things here?"

    ?

    I told him grief over child loss is not "depression" or a psychiatric issue and if I was going to kill myself or someone else, he'd be the last person I'd tell." He kept pushing his agenda. I told him he was the bridge to a skin clinic not a grief management specialist, and I didn't need armchair head shrinking for a skin spot. The MA later said that the insurance companies mandate these questions because if a patient kills themselves or someone else after leaving a doctor's office, there's a burden of liability.

    ?

    I asked what happens if someone expresses these feelings and she said the police are called. What a way to build confidence in your doctor-patient relationship.

    So, I spent a morning that I will never get back in a senseless and costly rodeo with an unqualified person trying to manage my non-existent psych problem, so he could decide whether to call police, as a knee-jerking agent of an insurance company. I finally got a referral to the skin clinic that was not recorded so the clinic wouldn't schedule me. After having to call back to have my doctor's office correct the mistake, a year later, still haven't been to the skin clinic because despite multiple calls, they never called back to schedule me. I saw my doctor later for my annual and he said the spot was not suspicious anyway. But he did offer me medication for my grief which I declined since grief is not a medical problem.

    I've since told my doctor's office that in the future, it can anticipate a smiling answer of 'I feel fine' to any and all questions about my mood no matter what I'm really feeling. And any dishonesty on my part is the price of the off course mission of the insurance company to get inside my head when I need a skin spot looked at. And if I say I'm there about my skin or my arm or my toe or whatever, that's all I'm there for and that's all we're going to talk about.

    We have a long way to go before we're sensible enough to 'reform' health care.

    As for coverage and how affordable the federal government thinks it can make it, how many mornings like mine are getting funded with no advantage to the patient? Given our record of paying more than anybody for less health, I suspect a whole lot of mornings.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Where is Heather?

  9. #24
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    BetteDavisEyes is offline "Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    Do you have a reason why you would not subscribe to universal health care?
    Quite simply, I don't want the government determining what healthcare I receive, which doctor/s I can see, when I can see a particular physician/specialist, etc. My dad was Canadian (became U.S. citizen in his early 20s). Had many Canadian relatives and heard a lot about universal healthcare growing up. Not all of it was good.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillycat View Post
    Health care reform and health insurance mandates are two different things. ACA had impact on the insurance industry and made it federal law to have insurance. This did nothing to 'reform' care, how its administered, or its quality. Americans were spending more on medical services before ACA, with less return on health than other nations. We did not change that by a federal mandate to carry insurance, or by government trying to control a market that was out of control for reasons that have nothing to do with 'waspy' people, privilege, or actual costs of products and services.

    The problem with the health insurance industry is doctors and medical institutions eliminated the patient consumer from the equation and created a quid pro quo to get fat and happy together. And now doctors are servants to the insurance company - herding patients like cattle for 10 minutes at a whack, and spending more time charting and justifying their actions and prescriptions, and running interference on referral for specialty services, than being a doctor. And now they're stuck with having you fill out a form about how many times a week you feel sad or don't enjoy activities.

    I had a spot on my skin a year ago and called for a referral to a skin clinic. Nope, I had to come in and talk to the doctor first to, essentially, get permission. But he couldn't see me for over a month. So, I was offered an appt. with the PA. Ok. So I got there and had to fill out their special mood questionnaire. I was honest and noted/circled one of the options for sadness. I had lost my mother several months prior and my precious son 5 weeks later. So the PA comes in and says, "So what's this about, pointing to the question and answer sheet. I told him, and was tearful at having to mention my son, and he started asking me if I was suicidal or homicidal.

    ?

    I asked how bereavement was related to either and he said, "Well, you're depressed and sometimes people can think things...", and he pointed to his head and asked, "How are things here?"

    ?

    I told him grief over child loss is not "depression" or a psychiatric issue and if I was going to kill myself or someone else, he'd be the last person I'd tell." He kept pushing his agenda. I told him he was the bridge to a skin clinic not a grief management specialist, and I didn't need armchair head shrinking for a skin spot. The MA later said that the insurance companies mandate these questions because if a patient kills themselves or someone else after leaving a doctor's office, there's a burden of liability.

    ?

    I asked what happens if someone expresses these feelings and she said the police are called. What a way to build confidence in your doctor-patient relationship.

    So, I spent a morning that I will never get back in a senseless and costly rodeo with an unqualified person trying to manage my non-existent psych problem, so he could decide whether to call police, as a knee-jerking agent of an insurance company. I finally got a referral to the skin clinic that was not recorded so the clinic wouldn't schedule me. After having to call back to have my doctor's office correct the mistake, a year later, still haven't been to the skin clinic because despite multiple calls, they never called back to schedule me. I saw my doctor later for my annual and he said the spot was not suspicious anyway. But he did offer me medication for my grief which I declined since grief is not a medical problem.

    I've since told my doctor's office that in the future, it can anticipate a smiling answer of 'I feel fine' to any and all questions about my mood no matter what I'm really feeling. And any dishonesty on my part is the price of the off course mission of the insurance company to get inside my head when I need a skin spot looked at. And if I say I'm there about my skin or my arm or my toe or whatever, that's all I'm there for and that's all we're going to talk about.

    We have a long way to go before we're sensible enough to 'reform' health care.

    As for coverage and how affordable the federal government thinks it can make it, how many mornings like mine are getting funded with no advantage to the patient? Given our record of paying more than anybody for less health, I suspect a whole lot of mornings.
    What a mess. Where I live we have skin cancer clinics where they do the examination, incision and biopsy. No referral from a GP and no cost. They are privately run and bill our Medicare.


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Quite simply, I don't want the government determining what healthcare I receive, which doctor/s I can see, when I can see a particular physician/specialist, etc. My dad was Canadian (became U.S. citizen in his early 20s). Had many Canadian relatives and heard a lot about universal healthcare growing up. Not all of it was good.
    My mom is Canadian and my Dad is American. From my perspective, Canadian's
    healthcare is far superior to American's healthcare and in my lifetime always has been. Canada is a great place and we Americans should be following their lead in many ways. If it wasn't so darned cold, I would love to live there. JMHO.

  12. #27
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    I'm Canadian. My husband had a stroke followed by seizures 6 months ago. He was in icu for 5 days. There was never a concern about out of pocket expenses through the entire experience. He received great care and is doing very well. He has since seen 3 specialist all within a short time frame. I hope all Americans will have the same opportunity he had to get healthy without the added burden of cost.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Quite simply, I don't want the government determining what healthcare I receive, which doctor/s I can see, when I can see a particular physician/specialist, etc. My dad was Canadian (became U.S. citizen in his early 20s). Had many Canadian relatives and heard a lot about universal healthcare growing up. Not all of it was good.
    There are many different systems of universal health care and I can only speak for the one we have. The government has nothing to do with what doctors I see or when I see them. Has nothing to do with what surgery I have or when I have it.
    The government sets the price schedule for every procedure and they pay 85% of the cost which is capped at $79 for any one procedure. There is also an annual cost cap but I can't remember what that is at the moment.

    ETA. Most people over 65 are covered 100% of cost.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    Quite simply, I don't want the government determining what healthcare I receive, which doctor/s I can see, when I can see a particular physician/specialist, etc. My dad was Canadian (became U.S. citizen in his early 20s). Had many Canadian relatives and heard a lot about universal healthcare growing up. Not all of it was good.
    But the alternative is "for profit" heath care companies to determine what healthcare you receive

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rain88 View Post
    But the alternative is "for profit" heath care companies to determine what healthcare you receive
    Yes. This. We don't need approval from anyone to have any procedure that a doctor orders.

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