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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVWoman View Post
    http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/CAM...436784883.html

    Guys this is one of the largest and best hospitals in my General area...this is what is really happening. I don't care if you have insurance or not these hospitals are cutting services and without them ...insurance isn't going to help you at all!


    Always My Own Opinion
    That is what happens when you have for profit medical facilities. We have private hospitals and they only charge a little over public hospitals and they make a healthy profit.

    And why is it happening now? Haven't you always had Medicare and Medicaid patients?
    Last edited by Jennifer17; 09-23-2017 at 09:53 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    That is what happens when you have for profit medical facilities. We have private hospitals and they only charge a little over public hospitals and they make a healthy profit.

    And why is it happening now? Haven't you always had Medicare and Medicaid patients?
    Not like we do now ..so many had their insurance cut ..had to get obama care or medical cards..It's like Walmart cut everyone back to part time to keep from being made to provide health care for them.


    Always My Own Opinion

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVWoman View Post
    Not like we do now ..so many had their insurance cut ..had to get obama care or medical cards..It's like Walmart cut everyone back to part time to keep from being made to provide health care for them.


    Always My Own Opinion
    I am confused. More people got insurance so hospitals are laying off because.....?

    Is it because so many come in with issues such as opioid addiction and they cannot pay?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    Health insurance determines what services you will receive. That is the way it is now and has been for years and years, Didn't you ever have your doctor call to see what can be done? And how a procedure is coded determines if something will be paid.
    I had to pay for a second mammogram when the first one was wonky. The doctor wanted to see another but the insurance company (which had provided great coverage otherwise) was "Nah." Another time (different insurance) the medication my doctor prescribed wasn't covered (it was covered up to like 10mg/month and he wanted me on 15/mg). Oh, and so what if my doctor wanted to see me every month - the insurance company said I could only see him 8 times per year. Ridiculous! I was always much happier when treated through the VA system, and now that I'm in Canada I can't imagine ever going back to paying for healthcare and fighting with insurance companies.

    PS: The only Canadians I've ever known to say the US system is better are Canadians on the internet. I wonder how many of them have been treated in the US or have ever had to fight with an insurance company? Everyone I know or I've talked to recoils in horror when I talk about what it was like for me in America.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVWoman View Post
    Not like we do now ..so many had their insurance cut ..had to get obama care or medical cards..It's like Walmart cut everyone back to part time to keep from being made to provide health care for them.


    Always My Own Opinion
    Walmart didn't have to do that. Walmart chose to do that so they could increase their profits. Even though some corporations provide excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits overall companies can't be trusted to look after their employees. That is why healthcare shouldn't be tied to someone's employer.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesneakers View Post
    I had to pay for a second mammogram when the first one was wonky. The doctor wanted to see another but the insurance company (which had provided great coverage otherwise) was "Nah." Another time (different insurance) the medication my doctor prescribed wasn't covered (it was covered up to like 10mg/month and he wanted me on 15/mg). Oh, and so what if my doctor wanted to see me every month - the insurance company said I could only see him 8 times per year. Ridiculous! I was always much happier when treated through the VA system, and now that I'm in Canada I can't imagine ever going back to paying for healthcare and fighting with insurance companies.

    PS: The only Canadians I've ever known to say the US system is better are Canadians on the internet. I wonder how many of them have been treated in the US or have ever had to fight with an insurance company? Everyone I know or I've talked to recoils in horror when I talk about what it was like for me in America.
    I too am a little suspicious of the 'Canadians' who have nothing good to say about their healthcare.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVWoman View Post
    Not like we do now ..so many had their insurance cut ..had to get obama care or medical cards..It's like Walmart cut everyone back to part time to keep from being made to provide health care for them.


    Always My Own Opinion
    But what has Walmarts meanness have to do with health care? If you had taxpayer funded healthcare, it would not matter how mean Walmart were. Yes, it may cost 3% more in taxes. Do you not think that that is worth it, rather than having to cobble together health care coverage from different sources?
    I really cannot understand why Americans are so against it, when it has been proven, over and over again, that it is the best outcome for health care. I think that you have all been brainwashed about it.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillycat View Post
    Health care reform and health insurance mandates are two different things. ACA had impact on the insurance industry and made it federal law to have insurance. This did nothing to 'reform' care, how its administered, or its quality. Americans were spending more on medical services before ACA, with less return on health than other nations. We did not change that by a federal mandate to carry insurance, or by government trying to control a market that was out of control for reasons that have nothing to do with 'waspy' people, privilege, or actual costs of products and services.

    The problem with the health insurance industry is doctors and medical institutions eliminated the patient consumer from the equation and created a quid pro quo to get fat and happy together. And now doctors are servants to the insurance company - herding patients like cattle for 10 minutes at a whack, and spending more time charting and justifying their actions and prescriptions, and running interference on referral for specialty services, than being a doctor. And now they're stuck with having you fill out a form about how many times a week you feel sad or don't enjoy activities.

    I had a spot on my skin a year ago and called for a referral to a skin clinic. Nope, I had to come in and talk to the doctor first to, essentially, get permission. But he couldn't see me for over a month. So, I was offered an appt. with the PA. Ok. So I got there and had to fill out their special mood questionnaire. I was honest and noted/circled one of the options for sadness. I had lost my mother several months prior and my precious son 5 weeks later. So the PA comes in and says, "So what's this about, pointing to the question and answer sheet. I told him, and was tearful at having to mention my son, and he started asking me if I was suicidal or homicidal.

    ?

    I asked how bereavement was related to either and he said, "Well, you're depressed and sometimes people can think things...", and he pointed to his head and asked, "How are things here?"

    ?

    I told him grief over child loss is not "depression" or a psychiatric issue and if I was going to kill myself or someone else, he'd be the last person I'd tell." He kept pushing his agenda. I told him he was the bridge to a skin clinic not a grief management specialist, and I didn't need armchair head shrinking for a skin spot. The MA later said that the insurance companies mandate these questions because if a patient kills themselves or someone else after leaving a doctor's office, there's a burden of liability.

    ?

    I asked what happens if someone expresses these feelings and she said the police are called. What a way to build confidence in your doctor-patient relationship.

    So, I spent a morning that I will never get back in a senseless and costly rodeo with an unqualified person trying to manage my non-existent psych problem, so he could decide whether to call police, as a knee-jerking agent of an insurance company. I finally got a referral to the skin clinic that was not recorded so the clinic wouldn't schedule me. After having to call back to have my doctor's office correct the mistake, a year later, still haven't been to the skin clinic because despite multiple calls, they never called back to schedule me. I saw my doctor later for my annual and he said the spot was not suspicious anyway. But he did offer me medication for my grief which I declined since grief is not a medical problem.

    I've since told my doctor's office that in the future, it can anticipate a smiling answer of 'I feel fine' to any and all questions about my mood no matter what I'm really feeling. And any dishonesty on my part is the price of the off course mission of the insurance company to get inside my head when I need a skin spot looked at. And if I say I'm there about my skin or my arm or my toe or whatever, that's all I'm there for and that's all we're going to talk about.

    We have a long way to go before we're sensible enough to 'reform' health care.

    As for coverage and how affordable the federal government thinks it can make it, how many mornings like mine are getting funded with no advantage to the patient? Given our record of paying more than anybody for less health, I suspect a whole lot of mornings.
    I'm so sorry that happened to you. I lost my grandson in April of this year, so I am particularly empathetic.

    I am glad you were strong enough to advocate for yourself. It is a horrible way to build trust. I can only hope the PA was young, and needs more real-life experience to differentiate between grief and clinical depression.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    But what has Walmarts meanness have to do with health care? If you had taxpayer funded healthcare, it would not matter how mean Walmart were. Yes, it may cost 3% more in taxes. Do you not think that that is worth it, rather than having to cobble together health care coverage from different sources?
    I really cannot understand why Americans are so against it, when it has been proven, over and over again, that it is the best outcome for health care. I think that you have all been brainwashed about it.
    This:

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesneakers View Post
    This:
    But you know, it is not that difficult. A small tax rise and everyone can get medical care. Those people who can get care pay taxes too. Look at the rest of the world. They all do it. Why is it so difficult for Americans?


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    But you know, it is not that difficult. A small tax rise and everyone can get medical care. Those people who can get care pay taxes too. Look at the rest of the world. They all do it. Why is it so difficult for Americans?
    There are many reasons. For example Americans are suspicious of people taking advantage of the system, they distrust big government (that goes deep in American culture) and it's also heavy on take care of yourself and make your own way. So for some people there's the idea they don't want to pay for anyone else to be taken care of, and for others it's the fear they'll be taken advantage of. Plus, if I can manage to get my own healthcare why can't someone else do the same? And people don't really look at the proof about how universal healthcare is so superior - they believe the horror stories or they fear change, and they believe it will be more expensive.

    It's difficult because they believe things like:
    - The government wastes all my money and wants more they can waste
    - The government will tell my doctors what to do
    - I will have to pay so my lazy, jobless neighbor can go to the doctor any time he or one of his kids sneezes
    - I will have to pay and people will scam the system to get drugs and sex change operations and abortions
    - Healthcare in socialist countries is terrible, people get inferior treatment, they have to wait too long, etc., etc.
    - No one will want to be a doctor if they can't get rich

    I know Americans who believe all the scary stories about Canadian healthcare and when I try to explain how wrong they are they tell me I don't know because I get my news from state-controlled media. As if the CBC is government propaganda and there are no other media outlets here. I wish I were joking.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesneakers View Post
    There are many reasons. For example Americans are suspicious of people taking advantage of the system, they distrust big government (that goes deep in American culture) and it's also heavy on take care of yourself and make your own way. So for some people there's the idea they don't want to pay for anyone else to be taken care of, and for others it's the fear they'll be taken advantage of. Plus, if I can manage to get my own healthcare why can't someone else do the same? And people don't really look at the proof about how universal healthcare is so superior - they believe the horror stories or they fear change, and they believe it will be more expensive.

    It's difficult because they believe things like:
    - The government wastes all my money and wants more they can waste
    - The government will tell my doctors what to do
    - I will have to pay so my lazy, jobless neighbor can go to the doctor any time he or one of his kids sneezes
    - I will have to pay and people will scam the system to get drugs and sex change operations and abortions
    - Healthcare in socialist countries is terrible, people get inferior treatment, they have to wait too long, etc., etc.
    - No one will want to be a doctor if they can't get rich

    I know Americans who believe all the scary stories about Canadian healthcare and when I try to explain how wrong they are they tell me I don't know because I get my news from state-controlled media. As if the CBC is government propaganda and there are no other media outlets here. I wish I were joking.
    But on this very thread, we have someone, who could not get her skin problem looked at in twelve months. Would that happen in Canada? It would not happen where I live.

    Doctors get very rich where I live, and I am sure that they do in Canada too.

  13. #58
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    Some specialist doctors, surgeons, get mega rich in the USA. The for profit hospitals in urban clusters are like five star hotels. And they are clustering into mega hospitals. USA really does have the gold standard depending on where you live. And the cost is astronomical.

    My sister had an emergency appendectomy this summer while visiting her family out of state from her insurance... It was a textbook laparoscopic surgery and 24 hour stay in 5 star hospital. The price tag without insurance, 40 grand. This is what it costs in America... So, This is what insurance is for. This is the very basic need of coverage. The unexpected, the unforeseen. And the price tag for the basics; insurance with a high deductible health savings account is often 5 to 10 percent of income.

    Most insurances don't cover dental, a major expense for almost everyone by the time they reach a certain age. Items like dental and vision are expenses outside of most insurances, and yet are so vital to health and well being.

    People just don't do the math when it comes to propositions like expanding Medicare, early Medicare enrollment, or single payer. While the premise of the republican vision of HC insurance choice is nice, how is that going to work within a profit industry? Is that like your 401k when you have no idea about the stock market?

    The very few social entitlements we have were enacted out of compassion for civilization. Social security, a nominal sum, something every working American contributes to was created because our seniors shouldn't have to starve to death at the end of life.

    Likewise, that someone's life or death hangs in the balance because of the tangled web of basic needs vs judge and jury of a profit industry just feels so morally wrong. It is the biggest moral dilemma this country faces. The onus on the republicans is to offer a replacement bill, not a repeal. Still waiting...


  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    But on this very thread, we have someone, who could not get her skin problem looked at in twelve months. Would that happen in Canada? It would not happen where I live.

    Doctors get very rich where I live, and I am sure that they do in Canada too.
    No, that wasn't the story that I told and it wasn't a matter of having to wait 12 months in the US to get a skin issue looked at.

    It was first a matter of having to schedule an appointment with my primary to be given a blessing to see a skin specialist. Upon my arrival, it was secondly the crackpot idea that all moods or emotional states are 'disease' states that liability questionnaires can 'diagnose', then wasting time making that the focus of an appointment for a skin spot -- because the PA was both ignorant, arrogant, knee-jerking to the insurance company mandate to quiz people as to whether or not they're suicidal or homicidal, and gearing up to call law enforcement if I was dumb enough to say 'Ya, I feel crazy and dangerous'.

    And third, it was loading the daily docket with so many appointments and extraneous BS that has nothing to do with the reason for the appointment, that the PA, who might simply be a crappy task manager, did not follow through with the referral. It was then a skin clinic who just dropped the ball and didn't call me back after I had to correct the PA's failure. As I said, my primary told me at a subsequent appt that the spot was nothing of concern. He said it was simply a sun exposure spot that was permanent, so we might need to send this PA back to school. However, I made a flower essence and essential oil blend that I added to some shea butter and cleared the spot entirely myself, so we might even need to send the doctor and the skin specialists back to school.

    The American insurance coverage problem and American care failures and astronomical costs are a result of multiple factors and excesses rooted in both greed and ignorance that, as I said, have nothing to do with anyone being "waspy" or feeling privileged. Again, doctors and insurance companies in a relationship that doesn't involve the patient is inherently unhealthy. I spent more time that day trying to get this PA off his questionnaire mission than I did talking about my skin, which is probably why he missed so many boats on that topic.

    The Obama admin advanced the untenable claim that simply herding more people into a broken system, where doctors and insurance companies have a quid pro quo, and in this case, extend their medical exams to pseudo psych evals and calling police on people, is somehow 'care reform'.

    No thanks, and no thanks to more of the same with 'universal coverage', where government and doctors are the parental figures doing all the deciding and rationing care accordingly. Medicare for all might sound great until you realize that American Medicare is limited and loaded with restrictions. It doesn't matter that other countries don't have our issues. America cannot spring forward to improved care or coverage via our unresolved broken and failed ideas.

    And yes, I believe that markets are essential to part of the resolution. I'm fine with ensuring that indigent populations are cared for through programs like Medicaid, but the Medicaid program that we have is also restriction-loaded. Our problems in this country are not because 'rich people don't care'. Rich or poor or in between, we're all filling out the same dumb questionnaire to get 10 minutes of access to a doctor or PA who doesn't have time to get to know anyone.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Where is Heather?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer17 View Post
    That is what happens when you have for profit medical facilities. We have private hospitals and they only charge a little over public hospitals and they make a healthy profit.

    And why is it happening now? Haven't you always had Medicare and Medicaid patients?
    CAMC is a non-profit system.

    From the previously posted article:

    "Reasons listed for the financial strain included an increasing reliance on governmental payers like Medicare, Medicaid and PEIA.

    The West Virginia Hospital Association tells WSAZ hospitals across our region are facing the same challenges.

    According to a CAMC release, increasing cuts to Medicare created by the Affordable Care Act, along with rising costs of drugs and technology and a nursing shortage also led to the financial strain."

    http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/CAM...436784883.html

    Non-profit medical facilities have the same costs as for-profits and are paid by the same reimbursement sources.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Where is Heather?

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