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  1. #1
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    What details would you like clarified?

    There are little details about evidence in this case that I would like to have clarified becasue they would make ALL the difference to the interpretation of the evidence.

    e.g.

    Do the panty & fingernail DNA match?
    There was foreign DNA nuder JBR's fingernails and in her panties. This DNA was degraded (yes - degraded, it was cracked and incomplete) and we know from screen captures on Tracey Doc I that there were only 2/3 markers from the fingernails. We also know from press releases that the panty DNA had 9 complete markers and a weaker tenth marker which enabled it to be run through CODIS. The full complement of markers for entry onto CODIS is 13.

    RST claim the fingernail and panty DNA are a match. Lou Smit ONCE made that claim on TV but has never repeated it publicly. However, he also made other claims which turned out to be wrong - i.e. that a blue line between the marks on JBR were made by a blue arc of electricity.

    The only official statement made by investigators about the panty DNA is that it may be the killer's but that it may NOT be the killer's. That it is very miniscule - like from a cough or a sneeze and may be from a worker at the factory which made the panties.

    If the markers from the fingernail DNA match markers from the panty DNA, this would be ludicrous.

    My query is - can they tell for sure whether markers match or is the fingernauil DNA too degraded to ever be conclusively labelled a match?

    If the two DNAs match, it is strong IDI evidence - so why not shout it from the rooftops?

    Is there a melted patch on the duct tape?
    RST claim a stungun was used on JBR. Alas, only one "pair" of marks is on her body. The leading expert on stunguns says no stungun was used and unfortunately, one pair does not a pattern maketh!

    The RST argue that on her face, the second stungun prod landed on the duct tape. I think the evidence contradicts this theory. For starters, the duct tape *may* act as insulation and stop the stungun from working. However, the evidence suggests that she was already dead or unconscious when the tape was applied because there is a perfect lip print on the tape. Why stungun a dead or unconscious child? Surely if she was taped and then stunned, her lips would move with the convulsion?

    jameson argues that there is a teensy little white patch on her skin and that this patch is gum from the underside of the tape - caused by the stungun melting the tape. This would be compelling evidence if it were a fact. So why are Lou Smit and the Ramseys not screaming it from the rooftops as evidence of a stungun? Why is it only jameson posting it on her forum as alleged "insider" knowledge.

    I cannot understand why jameson always hints at "insider" knowledge of evidence which clears the Ramseys. if it clears them - why not shout it from the rooftops?
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  2. #2
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    McSantas

    I, for one would like to know if Patsy and John ever read the McSanta's play

    about the murder of a girl in her basement. Did Patsy and John know this about

    her? Perhaps that's why they dumped her in the basement, instead of someplace else. Has this been discussed before?

  3. #3
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    Indeed, why not shout it from the rooftops?

    DNA - I don't trust it.

    Tape - Could have been applied when she was immobilzed by death or the stun gun and garrote (can a person move their tongue when garroted so severely - I doubt it).

    Stun Gun - should have been decided at autopsy (abrasion marks are simply not good enough description - after all this is a murder); but then again why not exhume to be decisive?

    Like everything else in this case, the evidence is on the edge to be debated one way or another. I wish we could find one unarguable piece of evidence that that leads to IDI or RDI.
    I guess we could say one thing for sure: this case was clouded.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellen13
    I, for one would like to know if Patsy and John ever read the McSanta's play

    about the murder of a girl in her basement. Did Patsy and John know this about

    her? Perhaps that's why they dumped her in the basement, instead of someplace else. Has this been discussed before?
    I have never heard of this. Could you tell more about it? TIA.

  5. #5
    Sorry to be dense. Can someone tell me what "RST" means?
    Thx

  6. #6
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    RST = Ramsey Spin Team.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkim
    RST = Ramsey Spin Team.
    Merci beaucoup!!

  8. #8
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    My recollection is if she were dead the stun gun wouldn't leave marks.

    Added:
    Here it is -

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/
    query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=128826 2&dopt=Abstract

    Homicidal manual strangulation and multiple stun-gun injuries.

    Ikeda N, Harada A, Suzuki T.

    Department of Forensic Medicine, Yamagata University School of Medicine, Japan.

    Stun guns are electric shock devices that are used by a number of law enforcement agencies to subdue violent offenders, but sometimes are discharged into human bodies as offensive weapons. We autopsied a 22-year-old woman who was strangled and had many stun-gun injuries on her head, chest, abdomen, arms, and legs. The stun-gun injuries consisted of many pairs of round erythemas with or without central paleness, some of which were accompanied by circumferentialabrasions. To determine whether the electric shocks were administered before or after her death, we studied stun-gun injuries on pigs before and after death and found that the shocks after death did not mark the animal skin. Based on this experiment, all of the stun-gun injuries on the victim's body were concluded to have been inflicted before her death.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I have never heard of this. Could you tell more about it? TIA.
    Janet McReynolds wrote a play 'Hey Rube' which was based on a novel about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    Janet McReynolds wrote a play 'Hey Rube' which was based on a novel about the sexual assault, torture and murder of a girl whose body was found in a basement.
    Narla, do you have the same question I do? Don't you think
    the Rams would have to know about that play? I'd like that
    to be a question on their lie detect. test.


  11. #11
    IrishMist's Avatar
    IrishMist is offline You can't control the wind - but you can adjust your sails
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellen13
    Narla, do you have the same question I do? Don't you think
    the Rams would have to know about that play? I'd like that
    to be a question on their lie detect. test.
    Ellen, I don't think they would have had to know about the play. I believe (and I'm going by memory, so this could be bad...) they did that play when they lived out east. It wasn't highly acclaimed, by any means... and I also remember it took some digging for reporters to find out much of anything about it.

    I'm gonna guess that the Ramsey's didn't know about it until after JonBenét's death.

  12. #12
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    Hi Ellen

    I don't think the Ramsey's knew anything about the play that McSanta's wife wrote until after JonBenet's death.
    You will have to take their word on that though, it's up to you.
    The McChristmas's were strange, no doubt about it.
    It would seem the Ramsey's were too trusting and naive.....but I'm sure in business John was not like that at all......you don't get to be a multi millionaire by being too trusting and naive.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles

    If the markers from the fingernail DNA match markers from the panty DNA, this would be ludicrous. If the two DNAs match, it is strong IDI evidence -

    Jayelles,

    Not necessarily. It could be the DNA of someone a Ramsey had invited into the house.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    The leading expert on stunguns says no stungun was used ...

    Jayelles,

    Leading expert? Stratbucker is well versed in stun guns, but he is not without peers of equal expertise. IMO Doberson is one of them, and Doberson is of the opinion that a stun gun could have been used on JonBenet, as are most of the experts who gave opinions on the subject.

    The marks on JonBenet suggest a Taser brand stun gun had been used, and the Air Taser Corporation does not want her death associated with a Taser brand stun gun. Stratbucker has a vested financial interest in Air Taser, so his opinion that a stun gun was not used on JonBenet should be considered with caution.

    BlueCrab

  15. #15
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    To Narla and Irish Mist

    Thank you both for your input on their knowledge of McReynold's
    play. I have been thinking about that for a while now. The reason I
    ask is that the Rams were so eager to make a list of suspects that were friends of theirs, that
    I wouldn't put it past them to do a staging that could
    incriminate Santa and his wife-anything to cause reasonable doubt and keep them (Rams) off the list of suspects. It was like how Patsy was so willing to turn over Linda Pugh.
    Speaking of that, and I know McReynolds
    health wasn't good, but did they have an alibi? I never believed he or his wife did
    it for one minute.
    Thanks again!

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