Blunt Force Trauma

beesy

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I found this definition of blunt force trauma:
So what is blunt force trauma? Well, it is trauma caused by a blunt object (a bat, the floor, a dashboard, etc..). Sharp force trauma, for example, is trauma caused by a sharp object (i.e. a knife, etc...). There are many typical signs of blunt force trauma: a lacerated aorta or other major vessel (thus massive internal bleeding), lacerated organ, hematoma, contusions, crushed or severed spinal cord. These are some of the major signs and only one has to be present in order to cause death. So in a way blunt force trauma is an umbrella term. It is sufficient enough to put on a death certificate. If a family member or lawyer needed more information then they could consult the autopsy report.
http://www.autopsyreport.netfirms.com/2003_08_31_autopsyreport_archive.html


And this one:

Simply, a blunt force trauma is an injury caused by a blunt object, ie not sharp; such as a bat, pipe, book, ect.
This can kill you because it can cause subdermal hematomas which is basically bleeding under the skin or skull.
Blunt force traumas are also dangerous because they transfer the force of the blow throughout the entire head, thus making point fractures and problems around the head.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1005122302278



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1005122302278
 
beesy said:
I found this definition of blunt force trauma:
So what is blunt force trauma? Well, it is trauma caused by a blunt object (a bat, the floor, a dashboard, etc..). Sharp force trauma, for example, is trauma caused by a sharp object (i.e. a knife, etc...). There are many typical signs of blunt force trauma: a lacerated aorta or other major vessel (thus massive internal bleeding), lacerated organ, hematoma, contusions, crushed or severed spinal cord. These are some of the major signs and only one has to be present in order to cause death. So in a way blunt force trauma is an umbrella term. It is sufficient enough to put on a death certificate. If a family member or lawyer needed more information then they could consult the autopsy report.
http://www.autopsyreport.netfirms.com/2003_08_31_autopsyreport_archive.html









And this one:

Simply, a blunt force trauma is an injury caused by a blunt object, ie not sharp; such as a bat, pipe, book, ect.
This can kill you because it can cause subdermal hematomas which is basically bleeding under the skin or skull.
Blunt force traumas are also dangerous because they transfer the force of the blow throughout the entire head, thus making point fractures and problems around the head.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1005122302278



Yes, but we have doctors and surgeons addressing the issue of Darlie's "blunt force trauma" in the testimony. Like it says above, the term itself is an umbrella for a whole variety of things, but if someone were hit with a bat, for example, you should be able to see where the various blows landed. Darlie's bruises are so consistent without such markings that I believe one of the doctors said "hard or large flat surface." I mean, from elbow to just below the under arm without shading to indicate the size of the object hitting her is pretty strange. I can see why they would think it was one sizable flat surface. Doesn't mean they were correct, of course, as they were using photos to base their opinions on, but they were in a better position to judge it than we are.
 
Someone asked me for a definition of blunt force trauma. So I posted it, not just in reference to Darlie's injuries.
 
Making her arm look like this must have hurt like hell! :eek: I am a :chicken: . I can barely give myself the shots I have to have for my RA!:chicken: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken: . I let my husband try to give me a shot ONE time.................:eek: :eek: NEVER again! :chicken:
 
deandaniellws said:
Making her arm look like this must have hurt like hell! :eek: I am a :chicken: . I can barely give myself the shots I have to have for my RA!:chicken: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken: . I let my husband try to give me a shot ONE time.................:eek: :eek: NEVER again! :chicken:
That's what I've said before. Yet, she doesn't really act like they hurt. Shouldn't she look like she's in pain in the SSP tape? They don't seem to hinder any of her Silly String spraying. No tattoos for you then, huh?
 
Goody said:
Sorry,I must have missed that post.
Jeana posted on another thread that the bruises could be compression bruises for Darin sitting on her? Do you think that's right? And how do you get hit with a large flat surface under you armpits? Do you think she slammed her arms in the door, starting at the top and working down? If you put your arm in the door, you can see how that could cause the bruising, even the ones on her hand.
 
beesy said:
That's what I've said before. Yet, she doesn't really act like they hurt. Shouldn't she look like she's in pain in the SSP tape? They don't seem to hinder any of her Silly String spraying. No tattoos for you then, huh? [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_123v.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_2_123v.gif[/url]
She doesn't have any bruises in the silly string tape. The bruises appear to have come and gone rather quickly. However, I think there are about 12 days or so between the photo session at the police station on the 10th and the silly string party.
 
beesy said:
Jeana posted on another thread that the bruises could be compression bruises for Darin sitting on her? Do you think that's right? And how do you get hit with a large flat surface under you armpits? Do you think she slammed her arms in the door, starting at the top and working down? If you put your arm in the door, you can see how that could cause the bruising, even the ones on her hand.
The compression bruises she is talking about are on her wrists. The bruises we have been discussing here are from elbow to armpit. (At least that is where my head's been.) < no smart cracks either! > The injury was probably smaller than the bruising we see, so she wouldn't have to go up and down her arm slamming a door on it to produce what she ended up with.

I don't know what she did and have no fixed theory about it. At this point pretty much just rely on the doctors who testified about it, but I am still open if anyone comes up with a better explanation.

One theory I have had in the past is that Darin interrupted her in the course of the killings, probably before Damon was attacked, and struggled with her in the kitchen, pinning her arm down on the counter so she couldn't move and maybe slamming the wrist down to get her to release her grip on the knife. The glass might have been knocked out of the wine rack then or off the counter depending on where it actually was when broken. But that would have made the bruises appear while in the hospital and there just isn't any evidence to support that.

Of course, I suppose a similar scenario could have happened after she got out of the hospital. He might have confronted her with his own suspicions and she might have gone psycho on him, threatening to kill herself with something.

Could his knees make the bruises on her upper arms as well as the wrists? I don't know.

There are those who believe the bruises on her wrists are fading in the police station photos. I can't really tell, esp now that they have enlarged the online photos into distortion and I can't find my MTJD.
 
how about a good hit in the area with a 2x4? It all looks pretty uniform to me like something hit her or like Jeana said, a compression injury.
 
txsvicki said:
how about a good hit in the area with a 2x4? It all looks pretty uniform to me like something hit her or like Jeana said, a compression injury.
A 2x4 has edges and should leave a recognizable marking, so think the surface would have to be larger so edges would not show.
 
txsvicki said:
how about a good hit in the area with a 2x4? It all looks pretty uniform to me like something hit her or like Jeana said, a compression injury.


Wouldn't she have a broken bone or two if she was hit by a 2X4?
 
cami said:
Wouldn't she have a broken bone or two if she was hit by a 2X4?
Good point, Cami. How would they hit her upper arms without her taking some of the blow in the face or head?
 
Goody said:
Good point, Cami. How would they hit her upper arms without her taking some of the blow in the face or head?
Well, I'd sure like to give it a try! ;)
 
deandaniellws said:
Well, I'd sure like to give it a try! ;)
I watched a bit of Small Sacrifices this weekend and was amazed at the similarities in the two cases. It has been years since I saw that movie. Diane Downs had a towel to her injured arm, Darlie to her injured neck. Music played a major role in both crimes...Hungry Like a Wolf played on the car stereo as the children were shot, the Routiers played Gangsta Paradise at the boys' funeral. Both Diane and Darlie liked to talk and it came back to bite them on the stand. They both thought they could charm their way of it. They both flirted with the detective on their case. They both had childlike mannerisms at times. (Diane used to say she was just a little girl.) They both had questionable claims of molestation against a father figure. (Diane recanted her claims after her conviction.)

One big difference though was taht Diane was diagnosed as anti-social and Darlie was not. Diane was deemed to be a continued threat to society and Darlie was not.

The similarities are unnerving though.
 
cami said:
Wouldn't she have a broken bone or two if she was hit by a 2X4?


You're probably right, but I was thinking of being hit with a 2x4 longways down the underside of the arm, not across it where it could break the bone. I won't get into it all, but I have a relative who was once hit on the fore arm with a board by an abuser. The whole forearm was bruised very badly. After seeing that, I can almost see Darlie being hit or somehow hitting herself underneath the arm in the same way. Darlie does have about 4 explained marks on the edge of that forearm doesn't she?
 
txsvicki said:
You're probably right, but I was thinking of being hit with a 2x4 longways down the underside of the arm, not across it where it could break the bone. I won't get into it all, but I have a relative who was once hit on the fore arm with a board by an abuser. The whole forearm was bruised very badly. After seeing that, I can almost see Darlie being hit or somehow hitting herself underneath the arm in the same way. Darlie does have about 4 explained marks on the edge of that forearm doesn't she?
There are four little marks around the elbow bend on the inside of her arm that no one has been able to explain. I thought maybe they could have been caused by edge of her kitchen counter as the counters are not rounded as they are in most homes built today. Darlie's counters have a square edge and I could see the possibility that someone banging her arm on the counter in an attempt to get her to release an object from her hand (like the knife) or someone pressing their weight against her arm as it laid on the counter might cause those marks.

How on earth did your relative get hit in only the upper portion of her arm. Wouldn't she have had to have her arm raised above her head to get a get swing at it?
 
Goody said:
Yes, but we have doctors and surgeons addressing the issue of Darlie's "blunt force trauma" in the testimony. Like it says above, the term itself is an umbrella for a whole variety of things, but if someone were hit with a bat, for example, you should be able to see where the various blows landed. Darlie's bruises are so consistent without such markings that I believe one of the doctors said "hard or large flat surface." I mean, from elbow to just below the under arm without shading to indicate the size of the object hitting her is pretty strange. I can see why they would think it was one sizable flat surface. Doesn't mean they were correct, of course, as they were using photos to base their opinions on, but they were in a better position to judge it than we are.
Well, it is trauma caused by a blunt object (a bat, the floor, a dashboard, etc..). Sharp force trauma, for example," a portion of my above post.
I'm not saying what caused the bft on Darlie's arms, I'm saying they have listed floor. You shouldn't mislead people by saying a bat cannot cause bft, which you have before. And there is no way a 2x4 caused those bruises
 
beesy said:
Well, it is trauma caused by a blunt object (a bat, the floor, a dashboard, etc..). Sharp force trauma, for example," a portion of my above post.
I'm not saying what caused the bft on Darlie's arms, I'm saying they have listed floor. You shouldn't mislead people by saying a bat cannot cause bft, which you have before.



I think one time I may have mistakenly excluded a bat as a possible source of blunt force trauma because of the testimony of the medical people at Darlie's trial. They were my only source of info on the subject at one time. But Cami quickly made me rethink that because of what she had found on a web search. So it is not like I am out there preaching that a bat can never cause BFT as you are indicating. I was merely focused on THIS case and it is plain to see that a bat was not used here. I don't know why you aren't talking about this case,but you should be because the whole reason people wanted to know more about BFT was to apply it to THIS CASE.

We all know now that a bat, though it is not flat, can cause blunt force trauma. Anything that doesn't have a sharp edge can. You know,like even dashboards?

So don't get your panties in a wad. You bat, for whatever purpose you might deem, can be considered as a source for blunt force trauma unless it has a sword or big butcher knife adhered to it, in which case it becomes :laugh: sharp edge trauma.... Or possibly a stab wound unless it actually beheaded someone. Then I guess it would be a:laugh: big incise wound.

However, in Darlie's case the bat is out. While it doesn't have edges like a board, it still would or should leave elongated shapes from the blows, plus the fact that there are no broken bones you would expect to find when a small arm like Darlie's met up with a forceful blow from a bat. I would sooner believe a board caused the bruising. If it struck on the length of t he arm as someone suggested, there would not necessarily be marks from the edges.

:twocents: Idea time......maybe they wrapped a furry plush fabric without a design around a plastic bat and whopped her until she turned red.
 
beesy said:
And there is no way a 2x4 caused those bruises

There is even less of a chance that a bat did it! :slap:

Besides, I thought you said you weren't talking about bft in Darlie's case.
 

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