Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

Sillybilly · Oct 21, 2017

Please continue discussion here until the trial resumes on Monday, October 30.

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Sillybilly · Oct 21, 2017

October 12, 2017
By Sam Pazzano, Toronto Sun

Laura Babcock murdered and cremated, court hears

Aviation heir Dellen Millard and his pal Mark Smich pleaded not guilty Thursday to first-degree murder charges in the disappearance-death of Laura Babcock in July 2012.

(Laura Babcock: Toronto Sun Files)

Babcock, 23, was murdered on the night of July 3 or July 4, 2012. She was allegedly killed at Millard’s home at 5 Maple Gate Court in Etobicoke, added Code. Her body and her remains have never been found, said the judge.

Sillybilly · Oct 21, 2017

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winter2017 · Oct 28, 2017

Is there any thing written that says CN is included in Sharlene s civil action ?

flipflop · Oct 28, 2017

THXGuru said:
Can anyone tell me if the jury knows that they are convicted criminals?
And can DM call himself as a witness? If so, who asked the questions?

Thanks.

I don't know, but I feel that a lawyer or one acting as a lawyer should not be someone with a criminal record let alone a murder charge!

jash · Oct 28, 2017

matou said:
Ok so Noudga met Millard in Reno in April 2012. Around the time Millard wrote those texts about getting Laura out of their lives.

I hope we get to see all the texts before and after that one. This is the trip when DM picked up the Camaro for good ole Shanester.

jash · Oct 28, 2017

JPC said:
Were there any photos or footage of Karolina leaving the court today? There have been clips of other witnesses. I suspect we will be seeing CN, AM, SS, MM on the stand in the near future.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not that I've seen but if you're curious what she looks like, doing a Google image search of her name will bring up results. There is also a photo in this article: http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...in-the-weeks-before-her-disappearance-witness

deugirtni · Oct 28, 2017

jash said:
Not that I've seen but if you're curious what she looks like, doing a Google image search of her name will bring up results. There is also a photo in this article: http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...in-the-weeks-before-her-disappearance-witness

How nice for LB to have such a good friend as KS. <obvious sarcasm>

DeaconBrodie · Oct 28, 2017

THXGuru said:
Can anyone tell me if the jury knows that they are convicted criminals?

And can DM call himself as a witness? If so, who asked the questions?

Thanks.

The jury would likely not be told about their previous murder convictions out of fear that it might lead them to believe that since they already committed murder they would be more likely to be guilty in this case. That being said, given the press coverage on the TB case, I am sure that they are all well aware that both are convicted murderers.

Yes, DM certainly can testify in his own defence. Typically he would simply say his piece without being questioned. He would of course then face cross examination by the Crown.

SnooperDuper · Oct 28, 2017

winter2017 said:
Is there any thing written that says CN is included in Sharlene s civil action ?

In a $14-million lawsuit filed in London, Ont., Superior Court in May 2015, the family claims that Bosma's death was caused "solely as a result of the horrendous, malicious, arbitrary and reprehensible conduct" of Millard, Smich, and their cohorts.

The lawsuit, which had not been public knowledge until now, also names Millard's mother, Madeleine Burns, and his former girlfriend, Christina Noudga, as defendants.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/bosma-lawsuit-1.3731461

SnooperDuper · Oct 28, 2017

If you are an internationally-trained doctor it is really hard to come back to Canada and practice, even if you are a Canadian. there's actually a lot in the Canadian MSM about this but here are two articles to soothe you over the prospect of CN coming back to practice here:

Pursuing the MD dream: How Caribbean-trained Canadian doctors struggle to come home
MDs who studied medicine abroad suggest thinking hard before making a decision
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/caribbean-medical-students-have-tough-time-coming-home-1.4223028

Now 32 and a physician in the U.S., Martinek isn't thinking about coming back home. Even though an estimated 4.5 million Canadians don't have regular access to a doctor, she says she doesn't feel like her country even wants her back.

It's a common feeling among Canadians who study medicine abroad, especially since most Canadians who study in places like the Caribbean often have to jump through many bureaucratic hoops to practise back home — even after spending years earning their degrees.

Opinion: Canada shuts door on Canadian doctors who go to foreign medical schools
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Op...rs+foreign+medical+schools/9714934/story.html

Canadians who study medicine, even at the best medical schools in the world, face barriers and prejudice when they seek to return home to work in B.C. and rejoin their families.

SnooperDuper · Oct 28, 2017

New news that hasn't been posted yet

Babcock feuded with girlfriend of accused murderer, court hears
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...36749257/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

"Happy birthday. A year ago today was the first time I slept with Dellen," Noudga said in a text to Babcock, according to Shirinian, who smiled and briefly laughed on the stand.

Babcock's mother, Linda, bowed her head at the testimony.

A deeply disturbing and emotional 1st week at the Laura Babcock murder trial
Crown argues a love triangle may have led to Babcock being killed and burned in an animal incinerator
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-trial-week-1-1.4376558

Deeply disturbing, uncomfortable, and highly emotional — and that was just Week 1 of the Laura Babcock murder trial.

Crown Jill Cameron and her team have already called more than a dozen witnesses and at least a dozen more are expected as they attempt to craft an airtight case against co-accused Dellen Millard, 32, of Toronto, and his onetime best friend, Mark Smich, 30 of Oakville, Ont.

So we finished week 1 of 9 and we are 1/2 way through the Crown witnesses. Will they be done in another week? Does this mean 7 weeks of defence witnesses???

winter2017 · Oct 28, 2017

Thanks SnooperDuper, you guys on this forum know how to research. I wish people on other forums would do more research some I don't think even follow the trial and then post very stupid things. Clearly by the testimony so far it shows that DM and all the rest of them were switching partners constantly and DM had multiple people he was sleeping with at the same time. Then someone on another forum is aghast at the one john who testified and how sleazy he was, NEWFLASH, you don't get anymore sleazy from DM.

winter2017 · Oct 28, 2017

I am just happy that CN is included in the civil case. I am wondering because she made a plea to obstructing justice that does not mean she was not an accessory to the murders but that she made a deal and they accepted it. It wasn't proven she was I realize. Her family are not wealthy so she will have to pay any judgement herself. That makes me feel extremely happy. Her actions at the first trial and given the more we learn about her IMO , justice was not served in her case.

SnooperDuper · Oct 28, 2017

winter2017 said:
I am just happy that CN is included in the civil case. I am wondering because she made a plea to obstructing justice that does not mean she was not an accessory to the murders but that she made a deal and they accepted it. It wasn't proven she was I realize. Her family are not wealthy so she will have to pay any judgement herself. That makes me feel extremely happy. Her actions at the first trial and given the more we learn about her IMO , justice was not served in her case.

Well remember that MB hasn't been charged with anything and she's named in the suit. CN's charges, or exact charges, don't really matter. It is easier to prove guilt in a civil case. In a criminal case DM and MS are presumed innocent and the Crown has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. In a civil case there is no presumption of innocence - it's just about which side is most likely to be telling the truth. Also in a criminal case, you can only talk about that one case; i.e. in this instance, the TB case. In a civil case they are free to discuss the TB, LB, WM case together.

CN's family may help pay so CN can defend against this suit but the judgement would go against CN personally, not her family, and stick to her like glue.

Suddenly leaving Canada forever is looking really good for this girl. She'll experience nothing but pain if she stays here.

deugirtni · Oct 28, 2017

It's revolting to think that these girls thought it was SO special to be having sex with DM, and were spatting over him, and being catty. Wow. What a great catch he was. What did he have going for him, other than his wealth? I guess he was somewhat attractive, but so was LB's bf, SL. So was money the driving force for the attraction to this psychopath? Just sick. Moo, of course.

deugirtni · Oct 28, 2017

It's also super disturbing to me that MS got himself involved in these 'missions' that solely benefitted DM. Nothing in it for him, perhaps other than to keep his friendship intact with his wealthy friend, be his right-hand man, perhaps. Wondering if MS will take the stand this time in his own defence, to tell his side..

deugirtni · Oct 28, 2017

SnooperDuper said:
New news that hasn't been posted yet

Babcock feuded with girlfriend of accused murderer, court hears
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...36749257/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

A deeply disturbing and emotional 1st week at the Laura Babcock murder trial
Crown argues a love triangle may have led to Babcock being killed and burned in an animal incinerator
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-trial-week-1-1.4376558

So we finished week 1 of 9 and we are 1/2 way through the Crown witnesses. Will they be done in another week? Does this mean 7 weeks of defence witnesses???

Wow, could be over in a week then, if the defence chooses to call nobody.

deugirtni · Oct 28, 2017

flipflop said:
I don't know, but I feel that a lawyer or one acting as a lawyer should not be someone with a criminal record let alone a murder charge!

DM isn't really acting as a lawyer, he is merely defending himself in a murder trial, which history has been proven to be a bad move. He may love the vision in his own head that he is acting as a lawyer, but he's just a convict being a PITA to the judge, crown, and other lawyers. I say, 'keep it up', because he's surely hurting himself in the process... concentrating on whether someone likes him, or if people are nervous.. rather than bringing forth testimony which could raise valid doubt about whether he was the cause of LB's death. jmo.

SnooperDuper · Oct 28, 2017

Well SL doesn't seem to be doing to badly for himself. He's going to make enough money to live a nice life, surely. He's stable, highly educated, ambitious, drug free, and gave LB a dog which requires stability and responsibility...that's the sort of lifestyle he sees for himself. SL is on the high road.

With DM IMO it was all bout the fast lifestyle. LB had a pretty impossible dream to become an actress and this I think sucked her into the lifestyle of schmoozing at bars, and drugs.

Once you add drugs into the equation I think your good judgement can become...uh, somewhat relaxed? Reduced? Being a high end escort probably wasn't much different than LB's general fast lifestyle with DM and his entourage except that she got paid....in part with more drugs to reinforce the cycle.

DM gave LB drugs and used LB for sex and then she fought over him with her best friends.

LB became depressed and despondent and uninterested in doing anything to help herself and when she did react she lashed out. Was she really crazy or was she having a totally sane reaction to the lifestyle she was living and the people around her?

If she cut her two "friends" and DM out of the picture and gave up on the actress dream and stayed away from the drugs and alcohol, wouldn't a certain amount of sanity have returned?

The problem IMO was that she was going to the doctor and they were giving her even more mind-altering drugs to go with her street drugs and doing nothing to suggest that her lifestyle was hurting her.

A doctor should have suggested to her that she was living a faster lifestyle than she could handle and referred her to rehab, IMO.

Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

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