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  1. #1
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    NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #8

    Las Vegas shooting death toll rises to 59, no apparent connection to international terror

    The shooter, perched on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel, sent more than 22,000 country music fans scrambling for their lives.
    One witness described the shooting as "non-stop gunfire."


    Las Vegas Shooting Live Updates: Multiple Weapons Found in Gunman’s Hotel Room

    The police found the gunman, whom they identified as Stephen Paddock, 64, dead in his room at the hotel. Investigators were still combing through Mr. Paddock’s background and searching his home on Monday.

    How the Shooting in Las Vegas Unfolded

    http://time.com/4965896/las-vegas-sh...victims-names/

    Las Vegas shooting victims: Portraits of the fallen

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    MEDIA MAPS TIMELINES - (a non discussion thread)

    This is NOT a political debate. There will be zero tolerance for politicizing this American tragedy. Period. We will discuss the case, the shooter, the victims, the crime. Posts that are not compliant with this rule will be removed and members risk losing their posting privileges if they do not abide.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 10-27-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha
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    Good Evening Everyone,

    We will not allow this discussion to go off the rails.

    Do not discuss anything but the tragedy in Las Vegas and all that is connected to the shooting.

    If people start insulting each other I will give you a long time out or a lifetime ban.

    This is very easy to do so understand what I am about to tell you: DO NOT GET PERSONAL!!!!!!

    What does getting personal have to do with the shooting in Vegas?

    Not one single person cares what you think of another poster's opinion and therefore you are making this thread about YOU!!

    I am asking nicely.

    Keep on topic and don't get personal.

    We have enough anger in the world. Let's leave it at the door and have a civil discussion, shall we?

    Tricia
    Websleuths is TEMPORARILY accepting donations.

    CLICK HERE
    to visit our GoFundMe page

    OR










  3. #3
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    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha
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    Hi Everyone

    Please remember absolutely no media sources unless they are mainstream, law enforcement or the few Websleuths approved blogs.

    If your source is considered a right-wing conspiracy page or a left-wing conspiracy page you can rest assured it is not approved on Websleuths.

    What happens if we allow these pages is the discussion goes off the rails and ends up as far out there as the rings around Saturn. It makes Websleuths look ridiculous.

    Stick to the facts as we know them.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
    Websleuths is TEMPORARILY accepting donations.

    CLICK HERE
    to visit our GoFundMe page

    OR










  4. #4
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    As most of you know, WS does not normally allow discussion of conspiracies, but due to the sheer magnitude of this tragedy, members have been extended a lot of leeway compared to what is normally allowed/disallowed under The Rules.

    Based on rational and objective consideration of MSM/LE information we have to date, there is nothing to substantiate a conspiracy in this case. Those who favor a conspiracy scenario do not have their opinions validated when they can't provide more than conjecture that conspiracies exist in this case.

    No matter how factually opinions are presented by those who don’t support a conspiracy, those who believe there is one won’t accept that others hold a different point of view based on objective analysis of what is available through MSM/LE at this time. Neither side is going to convince the other to swing to their belief, and reasonable debate between those two groups becomes next to impossible.

    So let's move on from the conspiracy theory discussions and stick to facts available to us through the usual MSM/LE, and few WS approved blogs.

    As of now, it`s back to WS standard procedure, which in part is:

    If a person is a victim, do not disparage them or accuse them
    If something is your opinion, make that very clear
    If you state something as fact, you must provide a link
    If you post a pic, you must provide a link
    If you can't link it in accordance with WS regular criterion, then you can`t post it or you must get approval from Mods/Admin/Tricia to do so


    Please Thank all of the opening posts to indicate that you have read and understand what is expected.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyWaters View Post
    More on the father including speculation that at one time he may have been involved with some of the Chicago crime syndicates.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...003-story.html

    And this:
    A 1998 obituary for Bingo Bruce explored some of the tall tales surrounding Benjamin Paddock.

    "Bingo Bruce Ericksen moved to Texas. His supposed cancer disappeared, and he lived a supposedly con-free life for another decade. He died there last month at 77. Supposedly. In addition to illegal activities, he claimed that he'd been a Dixieland band singer, pilot, auto racing crew chief, Chicago Bears pro football player, survivor of the World War II mine sweeper sinking and a wrestler named 'Crybaby' ... some of that may have been true. With Bruce, you never knew. He was born Benjamin Hoskins Paddock II. Supposedly."
    What was his date of death? Has anybody seen it?
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARIIS View Post
    Interesting --

    I am so not good at this stuff but there is an LLC trail of stuff---- Phillipines come up --



    https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2b...tephen-paddock

    IMO there are reasons for everything

    Authorities put brakes on information flow in Las Vegas shooting


    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...egas-shooting/

    Las Vegas shooter’s brother Bruce Paddock’s child porn arraignment delayed due to medical issue

    http://www.dailynews.com/2017/10/26/...-porn-charges/

    Search for SWAT Tactics Found on Las Vegas Shooter’s Computer


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/brother...phy-1508953678

    authorities also estimated that the costs of police, fire and other emergency services related to the massacre were projected at about $4 million and climbing.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/las-vegas-shooting-stephen-paddock-internet-searches-history-motive-victims-a8021971.html
    Paradise ranch is a property in Henderson NV. There are I believe 25 shares, which is why there are so many LLCs. SP is not the only person who owns some of the property. Literally nothing shady about it at all.

  7. #7
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    The father was not actually a psychopath.. The NYT published his psychiatrist's report a few days or weeks ago.. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/u...egas.html?_r=0
    For years after Mr. Paddock was arrested, his sons were told he was dead. Later they learned the truth and some visited him, his son Eric Paddock said, but none seemed to form a close relationship.


    The authorities have not said what they know about the convict’s relationship with Stephen Paddock.

    Here's the psych evaluation https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...Exhibit-1.html
    It concluded he had 'no mental disease or defect in this relatively bright individual'
    he described him as having a 'sociopathic personality'

    Thats a lot different.
    Likewise I think we're too hasty to diagnose SP as a psychopath..
    Sure , it could be descrcibed as the the action of a psychopath, but it could also have been the action of a terrorist, a competing syndicate, almost any manner of things.
    Are we not limiting discussion by pegging his mental state without adequate information.
    All we know is that he occasionally took some valium..
    there might be a lot more to him than meets the eye..
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  8. #8
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    What is so bizarre is how they effectively got the whole story on a totally IMo relevant entity.

    The timeline.

    Transcripts from the dispatch clearly indicates that SWAT was not requested until 1025.

    It actually is that simple.

    At 10:24 p.m., officers :

    “It’s room 135 on the 32nd floor. I need the SWAT.

    At 10:28 p.m., as SWAT teams gather

    the next 50 minutes, officers secure the floor and ready several SWAT teams.

    11:20 p.m., they explode a door-

    How they turned this into the whole story is befuddling at best IMO

    Much more concerning IMO is the repeated reports by different LE folks throughout concretely reporting to dispatch locations of shooters , calling into dispatch firing from several locations- this one especially.

    Its not speculative on the trained officers report .

    It was stated in a concise report - to warn colleagues :

    “We have an active shooter — we have an active shooter inside the fairgrounds!”

    From another skilled LE letting colleagues know

    Upstairs in the Mandalay Bay, halfway up I see the shots coming from Mandalay Bay, halfway up.”

    another skilled observer in another position concisely reports to dispatch

    “Shots are coming from Gate 7.”

    This gentlemen repeats his warning about location again.

    A different officer calls in

    We’re seeing local flashes in the middle of Mandalay Bay on the north side, kind of on the west tower but towards the center of the casino, like one of the middle floors.”

    These statements do not have qualifiers

    I think

    sounds like

    might be

    Declarative statements by different trained people -----

    moo

    It is also confusing that a top ten most wanted fugitive , is captured, pleads no contest, makes a name change and proceeds to openly go about his life - free - for the next 7 years.

    I am assuming 10 top wanted folks serve prison time ........

    and finally, (kinda) why are there no bullet holes on anything but the ground?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-shooting.html
    Last edited by CARIIS; 10-27-2017 at 02:33 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARIIS View Post
    What is so bizarre is how they effectively got the whole story on a totally IMo relevant entity.

    The timeline.

    Transcripts from the dispatch clearly indicates that SWAT was not requested until 1025.

    It actually is that simple.

    At 10:24 p.m., officers :

    “It’s room 135 on the 32nd floor. I need the SWAT.

    At 10:28 p.m., as SWAT teams gather

    the next 50 minutes, officers secure the floor and ready several SWAT teams.

    11:20 p.m., they explode a door-

    How they turned this into the whole story is befuddling at best IMO

    Much more concerning IMO is the repeated reports by different LE folks throughout concretely reporting to dispatch locations of shooters , calling into dispatch firing from several locations- this one especially.

    Its not speculative on the trained officers report .

    It was stated in a concise report - to warn colleagues :

    “We have an active shooter — we have an active shooter inside the fairgrounds!”

    From another skilled LE letting colleagues know

    Upstairs in the Mandalay Bay, halfway up I see the shots coming from Mandalay Bay, halfway up.”

    another skilled observer in another position concisely reports to dispatch

    “Shots are coming from Gate 7.”

    These



    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-shooting.html
    There is aLWAYS confusion on the radios in any major attack.. its as well to ignore the radios.. it takes ages before LE actually know source of attacks in a situation like this..
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  10. #10
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    Never mind I figured out the birth dates of the 4 brothers.

    Something is nagging me about Bruce and Stephen.

    MOO
    Last edited by Pamela_Brewer; 10-27-2017 at 05:40 AM.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittythehare View Post
    What was his date of death? Has anybody seen it?
    Died Jan. 18, 1998 in Tarrant County, Texas

    Wonder who he left any assets to? Someone paid for published obituary. Someone paid for headstone on grave.
    When he was arrested while running the bingo parlor, he paid a fine of $625,000. Buried money somehow?
    And his obituary only listed one son, Patrick. So I'm guessing Patrick is the only son who had a relationship w/ the
    father in his later years. Will search for probate records.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by enelram View Post
    Died Jan. 18, 1998 in Tarrant County, Texas

    Wonder who he left any assets to? Someone paid for published obituary. Someone paid for headstone on grave.
    When he was arrested while running the bingo parlor, he paid a fine of $625,000. Buried money somehow?
    And his obituary only listed one son, Patrick. So I'm guessing Patrick is the only son who had a relationship w/ the
    father in his later years. Will search for probate records.
    wow Thanks for finding that Enelram.
    I wonder whether October1 has any significance for shooter..
    (i searched for this date before among anti govt groups..)
    Everything was deliberate so I'm thinking the date and place may have been as well..?
    I'm not up to speed on the brothers at all.. resisting it fiercely...instinctively feeling there will be no useful information from them..
    which one is Patrick?
    (I have interview mood swingin' one and recent arrest one)
    ..or so it appears.. ...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittythehare View Post
    The father was not actually a psychopath.. The NYT published his psychiatrist's report a few days or weeks ago.. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/u...egas.html?_r=0
    For years after Mr. Paddock was arrested, his sons were told he was dead. Later they learned the truth and some visited him, his son Eric Paddock said, but none seemed to form a close relationship.


    The authorities have not said what they know about the convict’s relationship with Stephen Paddock.

    Here's the psych evaluation https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...Exhibit-1.html
    It concluded he had 'no mental disease or defect in this relatively bright individual'
    he described him as having a 'sociopathic personality'

    Thats a lot different.
    Likewise I think we're too hasty to diagnose SP as a psychopath..
    Sure , it could be descrcibed as the the action of a psychopath, but it could also have been the action of a terrorist, a competing syndicate, almost any manner of things.
    Are we not limiting discussion by pegging his mental state without adequate information.
    All we know is that he occasionally took some valium..
    there might be a lot more to him than meets the eye..
    We didn't diagnose him as psychopath. FBI wanted poster described him as psychopath. Whatever psychiatrist made a report in ny times described him as sociopath (having sociopathic personality). Socioapth and psychopath aren't that different. And it's not like there is a definite test whether he was a psycopath or sociopath. So take your pick.

    "Most experts believe psychopaths and sociopaths share a similar set of traits. People like this have a poor inner sense of right and wrong. They also can’t seem to understand or share another person’s feelings. But there are some differences, too."

    https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/...h-difference#1
    Just my opinion

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittythehare View Post
    wow Thanks for finding that Enelram.
    I wonder whether October1 has any significance for shooter..
    (i searched for this date before among anti govt groups..)
    Everything was deliberate so I'm thinking the date and place may have been as well..?
    I'm not up to speed on the brothers at all.. resisting it fiercely...instinctively feeling there will be no useful information from them..
    which one is Patrick?
    (I have interview mood swingin' one and recent arrest one)
    Patrick is one who says 'spending 17 yrs. in Air force straightened him out' but admits in his younger days he was much more violent that Stephen. Patrick said Stephen was the 'boring' brother. Have seen no pics or other interviews w/ Patrick.

  15. #15
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    When I read the article (below) of the beautiful mural created to remember the victims, it reminded me of the depth of compassion and genuine care that strangers naturally have towards victims.

    This article also reminds me of the wonderful people on Websleuths who care so much and their compassion leads to all of these threads.

    Excerpts from article (below):

    "Mynda Smith paused when she reached the purple heart with her sister’s name painted inside.
    Smith, 42, patted her hand on the letters: “Neysa Tonks.”


    “I think this is beautiful,” Smith said of the spray-paint mural.

    “Every gift that’s given to us, whether it’s a flower or a poem or a tree or a cross or these hearts, it’s light to us,” she said. “And we need more light than darkness.”


    The organizer of the mural, Kitos Lucero, who creates murals for children diagnosed with cancer and childhood cancer victims stated:

    "My inspiration was to give something. There had to be something I could give to the families who lost their loved ones,” he said.

    "It’s something that came from the heart of one person to another to say ‘your life is not over.’ Her life or his life may be over, but they are not forgotten. There are people out here that care.”

    "The hearts are different colors, each containing a victim’s name with a halo resting over it."


    “October 1st is a day Vegas will never forget,” the mural reads. “This wall is for the angels.”


    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...egas-shooting/
    Last edited by zencompass; 10-27-2017 at 09:33 AM.
    for there is nothing heavier than compassion. Not even one's own pain weighs so heavy as the pain one feels with someone, for someone, a pain intensified by the imagination and prolonged by a hundred echoes.” ― Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being

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