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  1. #1
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    the argument between Patsy and JonBenet

    In mostly every book that is written about JonBenet it is always said that Patsy and JonBenet had an argument before she died.
    The argument was about what shirt JonBenet wanted to wear, In every book that accusses Patsy of murdering JonBenet they say Patsy was tired from having to do all the Christmas planning and family packing and that the argument was the icing on the cake for her murder.
    In Patsy's word from "The police files":
    [ TT: What color top did she wear to bed that night? What color top was she wearing actually to the White's house like?
    PR: Well, she wore this little outfit that I had gotten at the Gap. We had a little, little riff over that because I wanted her to wear, I was wearing a red sweater and I wanted her to wear this red sweater with her black velvet pants, cause I was wearing black velvet pants, it was Christmas and all. And she didn't want to wear the red shirt just because I was wearing it. ]
    I am wondering was this just a disagrement between Patsy and JB or was it really an argument?
    Because the way the books & media describe it, they make sound like JonBenet and Pasty were fighting like two adults!

    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny
    In mostly every book that is written about JonBenet it is always said that Patsy and JonBenet had an argument before she died.
    The argument was about what shirt JonBenet wanted to wear, In every book that accusses Patsy of murdering JonBenet they say Patsy was tired from having to do all the Christmas planning and family packing and that the argument was the icing on the cake for her murder.
    In Patsy's word from "The police files":
    [ TT: What color top did she wear to bed that night? What color top was she wearing actually to the White's house like?
    PR: Well, she wore this little outfit that I had gotten at the Gap. We had a little, little riff over that because I wanted her to wear, I was wearing a red sweater and I wanted her to wear this red sweater with her black velvet pants, cause I was wearing black velvet pants, it was Christmas and all. And she didn't want to wear the red shirt just because I was wearing it. ]
    I am wondering was this just a disagrement between Patsy and JB or was it really an argument?
    Because the way the books & media describe it, they make sound like JonBenet and Pasty were fighting like two adults!

    Shanny, I think this is an illustration of yet another unpleasant facet of Patsy's personality - dominating and controlling. I think they had quite some 'little, little riff', Patsy ended up balling the red sweater and dumping it, sorry, I forget, was it in the bathroom? and JonBenet retreated to her bedroom.

    Also, I think as JonBenet continued dressing for the party, she realised she needed to change her panties, and rather than getting a pair of her regular panties out of the bathroom cupboard where they were kept, she decided to unwrap the packet of the size 12 panties in her bedroom cupboard and wear a pair of them. This way she could avoid leaving her room and having another ugly encounter with her mother.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    Shanny, I think this is an illustration of yet another unpleasant facet of Patsy's personality - dominating and controlling. I think they had quite some 'little, little riff', Patsy ended up balling the red sweater and dumping it, sorry, I forget, was it in the bathroom? and JonBenet retreated to her bedroom.

    [...].
    If Patsy were a dominating and controlling mother then JonBenet would have been wearing the red shirt to the White's house. Instead she got to wear the shirt she wanted.

  4. #4
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    JonBenet could have been exercising her will. Ya know when enough is enough!Patsy could have taken this exercising of will as a direct affront. Patsy has a terrible temperment.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by concernedperson
    JonBenet could have been exercising her will. Ya know when enough is enough!Patsy could have taken this exercising of will as a direct affront. Patsy has a terrible temperment.
    I think parents who have short tempers have short tempers. Why do you feel she had a terrible temperment and yet no one can recall her getting after her kids? As Schiller said "Not even a slap in a grocery store." Setting aside that I think a slap in a grocery store (or anywhere else) is 'way out there in terms of discipline, nobody has said she was harsh or angry and short tempered with her kids.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    I think parents who have short tempers have short tempers. Why do you feel she had a terrible temperment and yet no one can recall her getting after her kids? As Schiller said "Not even a slap in a grocery store." Setting aside that I think a slap in a grocery store (or anywhere else) is 'way out there in terms of discipline, nobody has said she was harsh or angry and short tempered with her kids.
    I can't testify about her interactions with her kids but I have witnessed a situation where her temperment was rough. I have mentioned it several times before. It was a situation where she was upset about a UPS package. It wasn't delivered to her apartment and she lashed out at the employees. She had the what I call the "black rage" thing. I have seen it before and it is totally scary.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by concernedperson
    I can't testify about her interactions with her kids but I have witnessed a situation where her temperment was rough. I have mentioned it several times before. It was a situation where she was upset about a UPS package. It wasn't delivered to her apartment and she lashed out at the employees. She had the what I call the "black rage" thing. I have seen it before and it is totally scary.
    I remember you posting about it. What year did that happen?

    Never mind - I found it. It was in 1998 or 1999. Somewhere within 36 months after JonBenet was killed. I rarely lose my temper anywhere, public or private. But the 2 or 3 times I've gotten angry in public was when there were other serious stressors in my life.

  8. #8
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    I agree Tipper.
    I also remember reading this,and thought that Patsy knowing a lot of people were not thinking very highly of the Ramsey's at this time, PR thought they were giving her a "screw you" attitude,and she had enough.

    If Patsy did have such a hair trigger temper,I think we would have heard more about them.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    If Patsy were a dominating and controlling mother then JonBenet would have been wearing the red shirt to the White's house. Instead she got to wear the shirt she wanted.
    You can't win 'em all, you know, not even Patsy.

  10. #10
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanny
    PR: Well, she wore this little outfit that I had gotten at the Gap. We had a little, little riff over that because I wanted her to wear, I was wearing a red sweater and I wanted her to wear this red sweater with her black velvet pants, cause I was wearing black velvet pants, it was Christmas and all. And she didn't want to wear the red shirt just because I was wearing it.
    Shanny,

    In my RDI theory I have this earmarked as a potential fabrication, since 1. There is no corroboration and 2. Patsy may be simply explaining away forgotten forensic evidence!

    JonBenet may have actually worn that red sweater at some point, it could have played a part in a prior staging, but its obvious existence required some extraordinary explanation, hence the 'riff'

    This feat of memory recovery including the detail is in contrast to other details such as did JonBenet change her underwear the day of the White's party, did she bath or wash, who supervised her. Or when JonBenet was being undressed for bed did Patsy remove her underwear or socks, even what color they were? All reduce to amnesic replies!


  11. #11
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    The only person I hear say she had a temper was Steve Thomas he said "One minute she could be really sweet and then next she could turn ugly."
    But other than that no one has said she has a temper.
    SCOTT: The accusations against you, Patsy, your bed wetting daughter, you would go into a rage -- are you a woman with a temper?

    PATSY: No, Iím not.

    SCOTT: Is there any record anywhere that you have abused your children physically?

    PATSY: Absolutely not.

    SCOTT: So where did that come from?

    PATSY: Just another one of those innuendoes to make a story.




    Quote Originally Posted by concernedperson
    JonBenet could have been exercising her will. Ya know when enough is enough!Patsy could have taken this exercising of will as a direct affront. Patsy has a terrible temperment.
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  12. #12
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    You know, I am willing to bet that there are a few people at SBC (our phone co.) who could sell a few stories about me, if I were ever to become (in)famous.
    I am a very happy go lucky person, but sometimes you just lose the head a little, especially if it's the same company that seem to give you the run around at every twist and turn.

    It's a running joke among my friends that if SBC have caller ID, they all run around screaming, "I am NOT getting THAT!"

    Yet, ask anyone else about me, they'll paint a completely different picture.

    PLUS - Although I think I will allow my kids to wear just about whatever they want, whenever they want (they wanna wear snow boots in summer - no harm no foul), my six yr old will be wearing what I tell her to wear at a formal meal.

    So, although I think Patsy is covering for her daughter's killer - not mention I think quite little of her, I don't believe every little tale about her paints her as a sadistic murderer.
    Above is my opinion only

  13. #13
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    Dec 2005
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    The picture of JB's cracked skull is horrible to look at. People don't get an injury like that by accidentally being pushed against a hard object. Either someone must have hurled JB's body against a hard object or cracked her skull by hitting it with a hard object. Whatever it was, the perpetrator must have been in a boundless rage.

    All we can do is speculate, but this is one of the things I'm having the most difficulty with: what could have made Patsy fly into such a rage?
    From what I have read, both Patsy and John seem to have been very indulgent parents with a tendency toward spoiling their children. I remember reading about one episode when John picked up an adult family friend and the woman had to sit in the back of the car because JB wanted to sit in the front, and John obviously didn't even realize how impolite that was to the friend.
    So it seems that JB was treated like a little princess who was allowed to call the shots in that family, used to having her own way.
    I just can't see a type of parent like Patsy snapping and losing it because JB went down to eat some pineapple after going to bed, or didn't want to wear what Patsy told her. I can imagine JB was pretty spoiled and the parents gave in to her wishes very often.

    Sure stress during Christmas time could have played a role for Patsy to snap and lose it, but could there have been other factors adding to that stress?
    I post on a Jeffrey MacDonald forum too - JMD killed his whole family, and I am convinced that he would not have attacked his wife Colette so viciously had he not ingested diet pills containing amphetamines. Couldn't a similar thing have been the case with Patsy? Could she have taken pills too?
    They also were at a Christmas party - maybe she had one drink too many there? As everyone knows, one of the effects of alcohol is that people lose control far more easily. Bar room brawls are a typical example. Alcohol and other drugs also play a huge role in many domestic violence cases, driving people to do things they would never have done when sober, with often tragic results.
    Suppose Patsy had some drinks at the Whites' party. Not to the point of being drunk, but enough to drive her to react more aggressively than she normally would have.
    And under such circumstances (Christmas-related stress plus ingestion of alcohol, maybe in combination with other pills), I can indeed imagine that Patsy could have been driven to do something which was out of character for her.
    But I suppose her blood was never tested for alcohol and other drugs because the parents were initially not considered as suspects.

  14. #14
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    There is no documentation that there was any rage with Patsy and JonBenet that day.Patsy readily admitted that she and JB had a little riff about the clothes she wore that day,she didn't have to.Does any one think that Patsy would have even mentioned it,if in fact it was the prelude to her bashing JB to death.

    If a sweater thrown on the bathroom counter can be misconstrued as someone in rage ...then every person having a harried moment needs to be in anger management sessions!

  15. #15
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    If Patsy was the least bit overbearing, or the raging type, Jonbenet would have worn the red sweater. Many mothers are the "law". Not wearing it showed a soft side, she let the child make the decision.

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