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  1. #256
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    It looks as if the Mileski angle might not be important, anymore.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    It looks as if the Mileski angle might not be important, anymore.
    How so? Mileski may have given LE information, names, locations, etc. before he died in 2004. It is now clear that they were re-looking into Mileski in October 2013 and stating to the investigator who induced him to write letters that they believed Mileski was involved.

    This was a month before MCP released - for the first time - to the Washington Post the now famous sketch of the Long Haired Man with a cover story about cold case rapes in the Wheaton area. Then in February 2014, they "re-released" that sketch alongside a 1977 photo of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. for comparison and linked it with the Lyon case.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    How so? Mileski may have given LE information, names, locations, etc. before he died in 2004. It is now clear that they were re-looking into Mileski in October 2013 and stating to the investigator who induced him to write letters that they believed Mileski was involved.

    This was a month before MCP released - for the first time - to the Washington Post the now famous sketch of the Long Haired Man with a cover story about cold case rapes in the Wheaton area. Then in February 2014, they "re-released" that sketch alongside a 1977 photo of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. for comparison and linked it with the Lyon case.

    It seems that any information received prior to Mileski's death, in 2004, has had plenty of time for consideration by law enforcement. I think, right now, the only testimony that is important centers around what they know about Richard Welch and Lloyd Lee Welch. Mileski obviously did not give them Richard or Lloyd, because the case would have been solved a long time ago if he had.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    It seems that any information received prior to Mileski's death, in 2004, has had plenty of time for consideration by law enforcement. I think, right now, the only testimony that is important centers around what they know about Richard Welch and Lloyd Lee Welch. Mileski obviously did not give them Richard or Lloyd, because the case would have been solved a long time ago if he had.
    Law Enforcement (Montgomery County Police) had Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.'s name, address, and his statements about seeing the Lyon Sisters entering a man's car at Wheaton Plaza as early as 1 April 1975 - exactly one week after the girls went missing. Using your logic, they should have solved the case about 41 years ago. Obviously that did not happen.

    Mileski might or might not have been involved but it is clear that he claimed to have known who abducted the girls early on (at least as early as December 1977) - and he maintained that he had direct and intimate knowledge of the crime up to his death in 2004. Montgomery County Police DID have Mileski's statements in letters, from informants, and probably from Mileski himself through interviews.

    Was there a connection between Mileski and the Welches? Maybe. Consider that most other potential suspects, persons of interest, and general profiles mentioned in regard to this case were usually individuals or loners. It was information about and from Mileski that first pointed to the possibility of a group effort to abduct the Lyon sisters.

    Because MCP has not named others (besides the Welches) as persons of interest, I am not at liberty to mention names of others connected with the Mileski information, but I will say that all had connections with Prince Georges County, Maryland and some had connections to places in and near Hyattsville, MD.

    It has taken MCP a long time to gather and go through volumes of information. Over the years many people have died, moved away, or simply have forgotten things. So resolving this case is difficult. Hopefully answers and justice will be forthcoming.

  5. #260
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    FWIW, I also believe that Kowalski, Junior Burdynski Brentwood, MD, case of the 1980's, will connect as well. I keep remembering LE's statement that they believe a number of cases will be solved before this ends.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Law Enforcement (Montgomery County Police) had Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.'s name, address, and his statements about seeing the Lyon Sisters entering a man's car at Wheaton Plaza as early as 1 April 1975 - exactly one week after the girls went missing. Using your logic, they should have solved the case about 41 years ago. Obviously that did not happen.

    Mileski might or might not have been involved but it is clear that he claimed to have known who abducted the girls early on (at least as early as December 1977) - and he maintained that he had direct and intimate knowledge of the crime up to his death in 2004. Montgomery County Police DID have Mileski's statements in letters, from informants, and probably from Mileski himself through interviews.

    Was there a connection between Mileski and the Welches? Maybe. Consider that most other potential suspects, persons of interest, and general profiles mentioned in regard to this case were usually individuals or loners. It was information about and from Mileski that first pointed to the possibility of a group effort to abduct the Lyon sisters.

    Because MCP has not named others (besides the Welches) as persons of interest, I am not at liberty to mention names of others connected with the Mileski information, but I will say that all had connections with Prince Georges County, Maryland and some had connections to places in and near Hyattsville, MD.

    It has taken MCP a long time to gather and go through volumes of information. Over the years many people have died, moved away, or simply have forgotten things. So resolving this case is difficult. Hopefully answers and justice will be forthcoming.

    You are right; MCP really SHOULD have solved this case 41 years ago. They had, not only LLW's name, address, and comments; they also had the statement of another witness who remembered LLW and gave police a very good description of him.

    Mileski's testimony adds up to jailhouse snitchery, and that is often not reliable. I do agree that they all had connections to PG County, though........most notably through the judicial system!

  7. #262
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    It is hard to think--and say--but after all these years, it reeks of total ineptness of LE at the time or of inside cover-up for some reason. The big question in my mind today is: "Why is this case in Bedford, VA when the base crime of kidnapping took place in Montgomery County, MD, and appears to have the most prove-able case?"

    The other thing that seems to get lost in the process of drawing out time is the way the case came back into the headlines. It was related to school and Social Services discovery of molestation of two boys in southern MD, and the conviction and incarceration of the molester, followed by revelation of the molester's connection to the Welch/Engelking family and LLW2 in particular along with the molester's connection to porn ring activities.

    As far as I can see, the only connection to Bedford, VA known publicly came from LLW2's claims--and now the use of his testimony is being challenged in VA courts. Crazy, especially when he has admitted taking the girls from the mall and putting them in a vehicle IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MD, as well as seeing at least one of them being molested in PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY, MD! Oh yeah! VA has the death penalty; at LLW2 age, wouldn't charges on those crimes amount to life behind bars? And wouldn't that open opportunity to bargain information on others involved?

    Sorry to say, but I still believe the case is being "handled." Whether a "mis" (which created the impression of mistakenly) belongs in front to modify the verb is questionable. IMO, there is much more to this case still to be "uncovered," and it may not be just in Virginia!
    Last edited by Schipperke; 12-29-2016 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #263
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    LLW2 was 18 at the time of the kidnappings, so there is no chance that he would be charged as a minor, if that is where you are going about the death penalty. Maryland also has the death penalty, technically; it just has not been used in a long time. As for why the case is in Virginia........there are two possible reasons. Either the FBI found some evidence in the digs conducted on the mountain, the interstate grand jury wanted to be careful not to violate the agreement made with Welch by Maryland when he was initially questioned; or both.

    The case in Maryland involving the two boys has nothing to do with LLW or the Lyon sisters.
    Last edited by siriunsun; 12-29-2016 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #264
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    The death penalty potential is very likely a key to the decision to combine jurisdictions and to pursue this case in Virginia rather than in Maryland courts. That possibility is indeed something that can be held over the heads of Lloyd Welch and any others yet to be named as suspects.

    The combining of the several jurisdictions has advantages in that offenses and suspects can be brought together for consideration, as well as other potentially linked cases. It allows LE from the various jurisdictions to work together more smoothly.

    A disadvantage, however, might be that all known crimes (of a specific individual) would have to be presented together - or in a logical order - and the considerations of time, expense, and distance might cause prosecutors to ignore some offenses to concentrate on others.

    The issue of jurisdiction will most likely be questioned and challenged by a defense attorney before a trial begins.

    Here is a hypothetical question regarding jurisdiction: What if a Virginia jury were to find a suspect guilty of crimes committed solely in Maryland, but NOT guilty of crimes alleged to have been committed in Virginia? A specific example of this might be finding Lloyd guilty of assisting in the abduction in Maryland but not guilty of transporting the girls to Virginia.

    Regarding the Death Penalty; Lloyd Welch would certainly be tried as an adult, since he did reach his 18th birthday in December 1974 (He just turned 60) three months before the Lyon Sisters went missing. But there would be a number of considerations in the sentencing phase IF he is convicted of a death penalty offense. The fact that he had just turned 18, and the fact that he could be shown to have had mental problems as early as 1975 would be introduced.

    Although Lloyd has an extensive criminal history which includes child molestation, it is likely that those convictions could NOT be included in the sentencing phase because they all occurred AFTER 25 March 1975 (See the thread on Fred Coffey which includes such a legal precedent decision).

    That said, holding the prospect of the Death Penalty over Lloyd Welch's head might influence his (and his lawyers') trial strategy and his willingness to cooperate.

  10. #265
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    Jurisdiction is very important. Check out the case of John Leroy Kroll who kidnapped a 9 year old girl in 1980 in Maryland and transported her to Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Bedford, where the actual sexual assault took place. Maryland tried him for both kidnapping and assault which the courts later found to be improper for jurisdictional reasons. This is a comparison of legal circumstance.

    At this point, I think I would rather see the kidnapping case tried in MD and then let VA make their case for murder in their jurisdiction--especially if the bodies have not been located. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that "WE DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF CASE VIRGINIA HAS FOR MURDER, BUT WE DO KNOW THE GIRLS WERE KIDNAPPED IN MARYLAND."

    The other thing we don't know is what, if any, connection exists between the kidnapping of the Lyon girls and the other sexual molestations within the family, and we won't know what we don't know (at this time) UNTIL WE DO KNOW IT! What we do know is the convicted man in MD and the man now indicted in VA knew each other; and one led LE to the other. That is definitely an avenue to explore IMO.

    http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/0...-with-assault/

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...132359173.html

    http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...S27004-13m.pdf

    ". . .Appellant was charged in Maryland with kidnapping and first-degreesexual assault, to which he plead guilty in exchange for the State’s agreementto nolle prose a case involving the kidnapping and assault of a differentvictim. Though sentenced to life imprisonment for the first degree sexual J-S27004-13- 4 -assault count and fifteen years’ incarceration for kidnapping, to runconsecutively, Appellant successfully had his sexual assault conviction andlife sentence overturned for Maryland’s lack of territorial jurisdiction. TheState, however, successfully reinstated the kidnapping case that had beennolle prossed under the original plea agreement, extending Appellant’ssentence until 2011, at which time he completed his Maryland sentence.Because of Maryland’s decision vacating Appellant’s first-degree sexualassault conviction on jurisdictional grounds, the Commonwealth filedcriminal charges against Appellant on August 16, 2010. Charged as notedsupra, Appellant decided to plead guilty. At the guilty plea hearing, theCommonwealth presented the evidence reproduced supra, and furtherestablished that, had the case gone to trial, it was prepared to call aphysician to provide expert medical testimony that the assault in questioncould have easily caused the child’s death. N.T. at 16.At the conclusion of the Commonwealth’s presentation, Appellant,represented by counsel, acknowledged to the court that a factual basis to hispleas existed, and subsequently entered his plea. N.T. at 17-18. On March5, 2012, the court entered a sentence of 18 years’ to 37 years’incarceration with credit for time served to begin on June 1, 2011."


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