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  1. #181
    EuTuCroquet?'s Avatar
    EuTuCroquet? is offline This may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves. ~ HST
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    If it was a civil matter then the state LEO shouldnít have been told to respond to the call. It would have been handled by tribal police. Based on the tribes website. But I think a 911 call that someone is walking down the street with a knife in hand is reason for state police to respond. They had no idea if he was a felon who wasnít permitted to carry a knife, or if he was going to kill someone.

    I just imagine a thread here about a teenager who kills a woman with a knife bc LE didnít take a neighbors 911 call seriously enough to respond. People would be infuriated at LE and placing the blame on LE for not responding. Damned if you do, damned if you do, damned if you donít.
    I might be wrong, but we still donít know why state police responded or whether tribal PD were simply unable to respond at the time.

    Respectfully, this thread isnít about hypothetical other situations, IMO. What didnít happen here didnít happen here. What did, did. So, no, Iím not going to ďimagine a threadĒ in which a woman is killed by a child with a knife and what anyone elseís reaction might be to it. Itís not relevant, imo. The facts of this case, however, are.

    MOO, of course.
    MOO

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuTuCroquet? View Post
    I might be wrong, but we still donít know why state police responded or whether tribal PD were simply unable to respond at the time.

    Respectfully, this thread isnít about hypothetical other situations, IMO. What didnít happen here didnít happen here. What did, did. So, no, Iím not going to ďimagine a threadĒ in which a woman is killed by a child with a knife and what anyone elseís reaction might be to it. Itís not relevant, imo. The facts of this case, however, are.

    MOO, of course.
    They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesnít fit their agenda. JMO


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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    If it was a civil matter then the state LEO shouldnít have been told to respond to the call. It would have been handled by tribal police. Based on the tribes website. But I think a 911 call that someone is walking down the street with a knife in hand is reason for state police to respond. They had no idea if he was a felon who wasnít permitted to carry a knife, or if he was going to kill someone.

    I just imagine a thread here about a teenager who kills a woman with a knife bc LE didnít take a neighbors 911 call seriously enough to respond. People would be infuriated at LE and placing the blame on LE for not responding. Damned if you do, damned if you donít.


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    An imaginary thread doesn't apply to what happened here, and to say either it's a kid who is going to kill a woman or a kid who is shot by law enforcement is a fallacy anyway. Those are not our only two choices.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesneakers View Post
    An imaginary thread doesn't apply to what happened here, and to say either it's a kid who is going to kill a woman or a kid who is shot by law enforcement is a fallacy anyway. Those are not our only two choices.
    An imaginary thread doesnít apply bc it didnít get to that point. It could have for all the LEO knew.

    Geez, I truly hope some people in this thread never need LE to save the day, bc it seems like no one has faith in them or believes them. LE is clearly the enemy and in the wrong, always, no matter what.


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  5. #185
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    Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

    http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by scmom View Post
    Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

    http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history
    So if state LE didnít respond to the call, who would have? Iím really confused bc some posters seem to think tribal police would have taken care of it (way better than state LE for that matter), but everything Iíve read seems to lean towards state LE being the ones to respond to 911 calls and put their lives on the line. So I am just unsure about what the procedure is when someone on the reservation calls 911 to report a man walking down the street with a knife.


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  7. #187
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    Seems pretty simple to me. Emergency calls go to the county via 911. The caller determined it was an emergency requiring immediate assistance.

  8. #188
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    WI - Jason Pero, 14, shot & killed by police, Ashland County, 8 Nov 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesnít fit their agenda. JMO
    (I have no agenda whatsoever other than staying on-topic on this thread.)

    So you think it was called in as a criminal case from the get-go?
    Last edited by EuTuCroquet?; 11-15-2017 at 12:18 AM.
    MOO

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    So if state LE didnít respond to the call, who would have? Iím really confused bc some posters seem to think tribal police would have taken care of it (way better than state LE for that matter), but everything Iíve read seems to lean towards state LE being the ones to respond to 911 calls and put their lives on the line. So I am just unsure about what the procedure is when someone on the reservation calls 911 to report a man walking down the street with a knife.


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    In Jason's case he supposedly called 911 on himself. Why hasn't that recording been released to the public yet? It has been the case in other police shootings that we are able to listen to the 911 calls. Maybe the media will be on it, and we will get to hear it soon?
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesn’t fit their agenda. JMO


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    Sorry but i don't see an agenda here, just people trying to get to the truth of why this teenager was shot and killed. IMO
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.


  11. #191
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    I wonder if we will ever see the contents of the search warrant that was executed on Pero's bedroom?

    DCI has determined Jason Pero was the same person that called 911 reporting a man with a knife, giving his own physical description. Initial information indicates that Pero had been despondent over the few days leading up to the incident and evidence from a search warrant executed on Pero’s bedroom supports that information.

    https://nativenewsonline.net/current...jason-pero-jr/

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by scmom View Post
    Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

    http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history


    In the vast volumes of laws in our country there are two types. Criminal laws and Civil laws. Criminal laws are enforced by law enforcement and prosecutors. Criminal laws have punishments. Civil laws are enforced by citizens, buisnesses, and governments but not prosecutors or police.*

    BBM

    https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ug...-criminal-law-

    Police Officers are responsible to deal with violations of CRIMINAL LAW, not civil law. Here is a basic description of the two:

    1) Criminal law is a anything that is an act of*CRIMINALnature. Examples would be burglaries, thefts, sex offenses, DUI's, trespassing, disorderly conduct, harassment, etc..basically anything that is deemed to be a crime under the PA crimes code.

    2) Civil law is anything NOT a criminal act. This would be landlord/tenant evictions/disputes, child custody issues, disputes over ownership of property, Person A owes money to person B and they have not paid them back, any breach of contracts, etc...


    http://www.wbrandywine.org/index.asp...A&Type=B_BASIC


    From scmom's link, it sounds like the tribe has only a civil court, not a police function, and anything of a criminal (or possibly criminal) nature is solely under the jurisdiction of state law enforcement.

    But, ianal and all that.

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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyle_E_Coyote View Post
    In the vast volumes of laws in our country there are two types. Criminal laws and Civil laws. Criminal laws are enforced by law enforcement and prosecutors. Criminal laws have punishments. Civil laws are enforced by citizens, buisnesses, and governments but not prosecutors or police.*

    BBM

    https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ug...-criminal-law-

    Police Officers are responsible to deal with violations of CRIMINAL LAW, not civil law. Here is a basic description of the two:

    1) Criminal law is a anything that is an act of*CRIMINALnature. Examples would be burglaries, thefts, sex offenses, DUI's, trespassing, disorderly conduct, harassment, etc..basically anything that is deemed to be a crime under the PA crimes code.

    2) Civil law is anything NOT a criminal act. This would be landlord/tenant evictions/disputes, child custody issues, disputes over ownership of property, Person A owes money to person B and they have not paid them back, any breach of contracts, etc...


    http://www.wbrandywine.org/index.asp...A&Type=B_BASIC


    From scmom's link, it sounds like the tribe has only a civil court, not a police function, and anything of a criminal (or possibly criminal) nature is solely under the jurisdiction of state law enforcement.

    But, ianal and all that.

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    Yes that sounds about right. But the carrying and transportation of firearms/weapons on an Indian reservation is also a civil matter because it comes under the 2nd. amendment constitutional rights.
    Jason wasn't in the commission of a crime when he was walking with a knife, and from what i have read it is not unusual for teens to have knives for carving on the rez., so there is that. Nobody knows what Jason was doing or where he was going when he was walking with a knife?
    He certainly wasn't threatening anyone with it at that time. And as his family and friends have stated he wasn't a violent kid.
    And lunging at an LEO could also mean taking a step forward, because we all know how some of these reports are written to favor what LE excuse as a lawful killing, IMO.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  14. #194
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    Actually, a local case here where a white teen was killed by a police officer (the officer was high on cocaine) was taken up by our Black Community. Not the White Community. You will be very surprised at how much the Black Communities have stepped up when it comes to unjustifiable shootings of White Men/Women. People don't even understand what BLM is about. It started with Trayvon Martin who was not even murdered by a cop and of course it has expanded to include the unjustifiable shootings of Black Men and Women. Black Lives Matter is not to say that all lives don't matter... they just want their lives to matter equally. I am a White Woman and I can say I 100% support their feelings because I see it every day.

    While you have cops kill White Men and White Women all the time, I can point to thousands of cases where a White Man/Woman should have been shot and killed for their aggressive behavior towards Law Enforcement and they will be arrested without as much as a broken finger nail. Put a Black Man or Woman in that same scenario... They will not be given the same treatment. That is the problem.

    I wish more White people would get involved when it came to unjustifiable shootings by officers, but if they won't then I know our Black communities will. Is it their job? No, but they do because they actually care.
    Justice for Trayvon

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears10 View Post
    Thanks for your post

    Also, its not legal for some people to carry knives in WI. If they are not permitted to carry a firearm (likely bc of a felony conviction) then they cannot have a knife. How would LE know if the person was a convicted felon without being able to talk to him? Which the LEO apparently wasnít able to talk to him since he wouldnít drop the knife and then lunged at the officer.


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    Where do you get that info? What if he wants to eat a steak?

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