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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by angorwat View Post
    Is there any MSM reporting that says the termination of parental rights is applicable to both parents ?

    The link from Alisha Ebrahimji, WFAA http://www.wfaa.com/news/sherin-math...hild/491232310
    only mentions "
    Wesley's parental rights"
    What I think is happening is that both parents' rights are being challenged. WM's rights are up for complete termination due to aggravated circumstances. SM's rights are being challenged by CPS, and we do not know what allegations they have against her. I posted sources on page 1 of this thread, #17 and #18, I think. Another lawyer not involved with the case commented that she was not surprised the state was challenging both parents' rights, but I think the challenges are different.

  2. #32
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    Because of the questionable circumstances surrounding Sherin’s death and possible additional criminal charges, the state does not want to offer any type of reunification services.
    http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/us-...n-girls-sister

    Because of the questionable circumstances surrounding Sherin’s death and possible additional criminal charges, the state does not want to offer any type of reunification services.
    http://www.fox4news.com/news/judge-t...n-girls-sister


    Quote Originally Posted by angorwat View Post
    Is there any MSM reporting that says the termination of parental rights is applicable to both parents ?

    The link from Alisha Ebrahimji, WFAA http://www.wfaa.com/news/sherin-math...hild/491232310
    only mentions "
    Wesley's parental rights"


    If doing the right thing were easy, more people would be doing it.
    ਸੂਸਨ ਮਿਲ੍ਸ
    ਸ਼ਿਰੀਨ ਮੈਥੇਵਸ

  3. #33
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    Thanks both !!

    Just trying to get clarity on the comments in the Phoenix based report about challenging the parents' right, opposition to reunification services and the lawyer statement about allegations against SM.

    And the Dallas based report not mentioning anything about the challenges to parental right against SM while explicitly mentioning the proceedings to terminate parental rights of WM.

    Hope some in the Dallas media will get us more info !!

  4. #34
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    I am curious what type of restrictions will be in place with regards to Sini's visitation of the child? I completely feel putting her with family is the best thing to do. I am just hoping that any restrictions will be adhered to (at least until this whole thing plays out) and who will know if they are not?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by watergirl62 View Post
    Thanks! Sorry if I scrolled through any previous discussion about this. I'm sure I did, this thread was flying. Trying to catch up a bit.

    Could mom get a second bite at the apple if she say... divorced dad, and was found to be an innocent non-contributing party to Sherin's death (assuming that's possible), and could provide a stable home, and and and... I am sure the list goes on. Just curious if a hill exists she can climb to regain custodial rights. Purely a technical question (no judgement regarding mom).

    Also, do you think the GAL findings Will provide a preliminary pass/fail for mom being able to pursue custody? TIA!
    I think this is why it is going to take some time to move this one forward.

    In my rather anecdotal experience, even in families where one parent abuses while the other is a victim, there are lots of questions about the victim parent's future ability to protect any children from the other parent, or possibly from future partners. There is a likelihood of continuing patterns of abuse--such as those who grow up in abusive families and then find themselves re-victimized in their choice of a life partner. Not always, but sometimes. And particularly when there has been no intervention from counseling, etc.

    Pretty clear WM is going to be legally removed one way or another. But CPS has a somewhat greater latitude than a criminal court when it comes to determining Sini's level of complicity with whatever happened--on that night and for any time leading up. And using that assessment to determine if she poses an ongoing ris--even if looking a possible sins of omission rather than commission.

  6. #36
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    Still following as closely as possible, praying that peace can come soon. My heart just aches, and the waiting sure doesn't help.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by agilbe View Post
    I am curious what type of restrictions will be in place with regards to Sini's visitation of the child? I completely feel putting her with family is the best thing to do. I am just hoping that any restrictions will be adhered to (at least until this whole thing plays out) and who will know if they are not?
    I think initially the supervised visits at CPS/DSS will remain in place at least until the autopsy results are made public. They may allow the relative who gets the child to supervise visits once the autopsy is available providing nothing comes out in the report leads to a./n indictment or arrest. JMHO
    Last edited by Grouchymom; 11-14-2017 at 07:14 PM.


    If doing the right thing were easy, more people would be doing it.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grouchymom View Post
    I think initially the supervised visits at CPS/DSS will remain in place at least until the autopsy results are made public. They may allow the relative who gets the child to supervise visits once the autopsy is available providing nothing comes out in the report leads to a./n indictment or arrest. JMHO
    I think that would be best waiting until the autopsy is in. Imagine if it turns out not what WM says and instead show she has healing fractures for example, a sign that it wasn't a one of moment from WM. For my own peace of mind I would have kept her with CP's until the autopsy report was in, even though it is better for sherin to be with family

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by agilbe View Post
    I am curious what type of restrictions will be in place with regards to Sini's visitation of the child? I completely feel putting her with family is the best thing to do. I am just hoping that any restrictions will be adhered to (at least until this whole thing plays out) and who will know if they are not?
    That's what I worry about too. We do not know what was going on in that home. CPS needs more info before they can make the proper decision about where this sweet girl should be living.

    Sini's relatives might just allow the child to be back in Mom's care, and that might not be the best place for her at this time.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margo/Mom View Post
    I think this is why it is going to take some time to move this one forward.

    In my rather anecdotal experience, even in families where one parent abuses while the other is a victim, there are lots of questions about the victim parent's future ability to protect any children from the other parent, or possibly from future partners. There is a likelihood of continuing patterns of abuse--such as those who grow up in abusive families and then find themselves re-victimized in their choice of a life partner. Not always, but sometimes. And particularly when there has been no intervention from counseling, etc.

    Pretty clear WM is going to be legally removed one way or another. But CPS has a somewhat greater latitude than a criminal court when it comes to determining Sini's level of complicity with whatever happened--on that night and for any time leading up. And using that assessment to determine if she poses an ongoing ris--even if looking a possible sins of omission rather than commission.
    Thank you for your comments, Margo/Mom! I often struggle when posters here at WS opine that a mother might have been a victim of DV which in turn may mitigate the mother's obligation to protect her child. And yes, I was once a victim of DV and the choices I made may color my opinion of how mothers should proceed in similar circumstances. FWIW, I had the confidence and support of my parents and was able to exit the abuse and I acknowledge that not every woman is as lucky but it's very hard for me to excuse continuing abuse on a child.

    IOW, let an beat on me but if he beats on my kid then it's on me to stop the abuse.

    I know it's been suggested in this case that Sini may have been a victim of abuse by WM. In another case I'm following where a father beat his newborn to death and hid her body posters have suggested the same about the baby's mother.

    In both cases IMO it's reasonable for CPS to question the ability of the mother to move forward in a way that she is able and willing to protect her surviving child. IMO it may (or may not) come down to the willingness of the mother to break the cycle of abuse. Neither upbringing nor cultural mores should determine the level of risk a mother is willing to tolerate for her child.

    MOO.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMarple View Post
    Thank you for your comments, Margo/Mom! I often struggle when posters here at WS opine that a mother might have been a victim of DV which in turn may mitigate the mother's obligation to protect her child. And yes, I was once a victim of DV and the choices I made may color my opinion of how mothers should proceed in similar circumstances. FWIW, I had the confidence and support of my parents and was able to exit the abuse and I acknowledge that not every woman is as lucky but it's very hard for me to excuse continuing abuse on a child.

    IOW, let an beat on me but if he beats on my kid then it's on me to stop the abuse.

    I know it's been suggested in this case that Sini may have been a victim of abuse by WM. In another case I'm following where a father beat his newborn to death and hid her body posters have suggested the same about the baby's mother.

    In both cases IMO it's reasonable for CPS to question the ability of the mother to move forward in a way that she is able and willing to protect her surviving child. IMO it may (or may not) come down to the willingness of the mother to break the cycle of abuse. Neither upbringing nor cultural mores should determine the level of risk a mother is willing to tolerate for her child.

    .
    Glad you were able to get out. Even when there is a will, I know how difficult (and sometimes confusing) it can be to learn all new habits and ways of seeing and responding to people.

  12. #42
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    Some of the proceedings of the custody hearing were delayed yesterday because of "aggravated circumstances" in the case, which was widely reported in the international media.

    The Dallas court did not address what those "aggravated circumstances" were, and the attorneys for Sherin's mother declined to comment about the reasons for the delay, the report said.

    The custody hearing has now been reset for November 29.

    In the family court, a judge can "waive requirement of a service plan and the requirement to make reasonable efforts to return the child to a parent," according to the Texas Family Code "if the court finds that the parent has subjected the child to aggravated circumstances."

    The family code includes injury to a child as an aggravated circumstance, the report said.

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/sher...family-1775391

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleuboy View Post
    I think that would be best waiting until the autopsy is in. Imagine if it turns out not what WM says and instead show she has healing fractures for example, a sign that it wasn't a one of moment from WM. For my own peace of mind I would have kept her with CP's until the autopsy report was in, even though it is better for sherin to be with family

    If I were the GAL/CASA on this case based on what I know now, I would recommend hold the familial placement until the autopsy is in also. Although they may have a preliminary that we are not privy to and that is why it appears to be proceeding. I think as uncomfortable as it is for the parties involved one should always err on the side of safety for the child. And that may very well be what CPS/DSS is waiting on to complete the homestudy. If they had been as gung ho about moving the child quickly as the press made it sound they would have presented a completed study Monday and it would have happened then.

    JMHO


    If doing the right thing were easy, more people would be doing it.
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    ਸ਼ਿਰੀਨ ਮੈਥੇਵਸ

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grouchymom View Post
    ...If they had been as gung ho about moving the child quickly as the press made it sound they would have presented a completed study Monday and it would have happened then.
    ....
    I think most of the reporters immediately corrected their posts indicating that the homestudy is getting completed only by Wednesday.

    The Dallas Morning News report is clearer than the earlier media reports on the hearing. Btw ndtv.com from India seems to be doing copy paste mainly from this report !!
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2017/11/12/custody-hearing-set-monday-4-year-old-sister-sherin-mathews


    A family court judge ruled Monday that the 4-year-old sister of Sherin Mathews, the Richardson girl found dead in a culvert last month, will soon leave foster care to live with extended family.

    Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marissa Gonzales said the change won't happen today but could at any time. It wasn't publicly clear Monday which relatives would have custody of the child or what kind of visitation the girl's mother, Sini Mathews, would have with her.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margo/Mom View Post
    I think this is why it is going to take some time to move this one forward.

    In my rather anecdotal experience, even in families where one parent abuses while the other is a victim, there are lots of questions about the victim parent's future ability to protect any children from the other parent, or possibly from future partners. There is a likelihood of continuing patterns of abuse--such as those who grow up in abusive families and then find themselves re-victimized in their choice of a life partner. Not always, but sometimes. And particularly when there has been no intervention from counseling, etc.

    Pretty clear WM is going to be legally removed one way or another. But CPS has a somewhat greater latitude than a criminal court when it comes to determining Sini's level of complicity with whatever happened--on that night and for any time leading up. And using that assessment to determine if she poses an ongoing ris--even if looking a possible sins of omission rather than commission.
    Great post.

    Since we have heard that CPS was involved before it may have been for benign reasons such as adjusting to the adoption. However, none of us really know why the contact was made or even if there was more than one contact unless somehow I have missed reading the reasons they came there before Sherin was killed.

    Have we learned how Sherin injured her arm? The reason I asked is someone may have done a mandatory reporting possibly suspecting child abuse at the time. Maybe they saw what appeared to be fingerprint bruising at the time on her arm as if someone applied abusive angry pressure by yanking her around too hard causing injury. And as far as we know there may have been other complaints called in anonymously about Sherin possibly being mistreated too. The complaints may have been against both parents' parenting skills or lack of. imo There is a reason LE is suspicious of Sini. If not, I think she would have gotten her bio daughter back by now. Instead DFC is resisting. Imo, that can only mean they believe she either may have been involved in any abuse done to Sherin or she conveniently ignored it and allowed it to happen without trying to stop it.

    I will not say Sini knew of the abuse done to Sherin for I have no concrete evidence of that at this time. But I will say my own mother knew about everything that was happening to me starting when I was a very small child continuing into my mid teens and she chose to look the other way and did nothing....not stopping it or even trying to protect/defend me when she knew it was happening.

    I was 36 years old before I ever told anyone, and during the time of my therapy, I joined a support group that had both men and women in it who had been severely abused during their childhood for many years. There were two common denominators. 1) Most had experienced abuse by both parents whether it was physical, emotional, neglect or sexual abuse or all of the above even though one of the parents was the main abuser and the other parent the enabler. 2) Most all of them were totally convinced their own mothers knew about the abuse and did nothing to help them but sided with the abusive parent instead. In many cases, the non-supportive parent (enabler of the abuser) would go so far as to often leave them with the abuser who they knew would abuse the child when left alone with the main abusive parent. Many said they were deeply haunted to know they were abandoned by the parent that was suppose to protect them at all cost.

    The PTSD most suffered from was greatly enhanced due to knowing their mothers abandoned them in their greatest time of need and support. In fact many of the struggling survivors had much more inner rage against their mothers for the betrayal they felt than the fathers/grandfathers/uncle who had abused them.

    There were a few men there who had been emotionally, physically, and sexually abused by their mothers/grandmothers/aunts during the entire time they remained in the home growing up. These men really struggled to understand why their own mothers/grandmothers/aunts would put them through so much emotional/physical pain and such degradation. Many of the abuse survivors had never spoken out about what had happened all during their growing up period, and were much older adults before they were able to face what had happened to them.

    I wish I could totally believe Sini was an innocent bystander in all of this, but I find it very hard to believe actually. Devoted mothers have a sixth sense and pickup on things they know aren't right that is happening in their own homes. They are much more observant about those kind of things than fathers seem to be. imo

    JMO though and nothing more.
    Last edited by oceanblueeyes; 11-15-2017 at 01:18 PM.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

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