Why BOTH Garrote & Head Bash?

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Rupert

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I would like to concentrate on why the perp both Garroted and Bashed JonBenet. There have been various reasons I know of suggested:

1. perhaps the Head Bash occurred first by accident and the Garrote was a coverup (ST) - with an amazing lack of blood loss,
2. the perp enjoyed the Garrote and then finished off with the Head Bash because 3of a struggle - again an amazing lack of blood loss
4. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash for just sadistic pleasure,
5. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash as a step by step ritual (eg Celtic midwinter garrote/bash sacrifice).

I'm just a laymen here, but the low loss of blood to the Head Bash suggests to me that it was NOT done immediately after the Garrote and therefore suggests to me that it was planned that way.

I think it is central to the motive and important to discuss in itself. Why do you think both the Garrote and Head Bash were done?
 
Rupert said:
I would like to concentrate on why the perp both Garroted and Bashed JonBenet. There have been various reasons I know of suggested:

1. perhaps the Head Bash occurred first by accident and the Garrote was a coverup (ST) - with an amazing lack of blood loss,
2. the perp enjoyed the Garrote and then finished off with the Head Bash because 3of a struggle - again an amazing lack of blood loss
4. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash for just sadistic pleasure,
5. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash as a step by step ritual (eg Celtic midwinter garrote/bash sacrifice).

I'm just a laymen here, but the low loss of blood to the Head Bash suggests to me that it was NOT done immediately after the Garrote and therefore suggests to me that it was planned that way.

I think it is central to the motive and important to discuss in itself. Why do you think both the Garrote and Head Bash were done?
Click to expand...
The headbash IMO followed the strangulation to assure JBR couldn't be revived. Strangulation alone doesn't guarantee for any perp that she couldn't be revived. Bobby Franks provides a good comparison. He was strangled, and hit over the head. So was Bob Crane. Its a MO.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The headbash IMO followed the strangulation to assure JBR couldn't be revived. Strangulation alone doesn't guarantee for any perp that she couldn't be revived. Bobby Franks provides a good comparison. He was strangled, and hit over the head. So was Bob Crane. Its a MO.
Click to expand...


I agree the strangulation, maybe by accident, likely killed JonBenet. The petechial hemorrhages on the top and bottom of the neck ligature and on the eyelids support this conclusion. Dead bodies don't pump blood and cause petechial hemorrhages.

However, the extreme tightening of the ligature around the neck, sinking the cord grotesquely into JonBenet's skin, and the vicious hit on the head, splitting the skull in two were, IMO, to help make the murder look like the work of a foreign terrorist and thus divert suspicion away from the sexual aspects of the killing and hence divert suspicion away from a family member.

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
I agree the strangulation, maybe by accident...
BlueCrab
Click to expand...
Accidental strangulation borders the very outer rims of reality to such an extent that it shouldn't even be mentioned. Clearly JBR was strangled deliberately, due to the established 'fact' her attacker was using deadly force. JBR was alive when the garrote was tightened enough to cause local hemmorhaging. Any suggestion otherwise 'doesn't further the investigation'.
 
BlueCrab said:
...sinking the cord grotesquely into JonBenet's skin, and the vicious hit on the head, splitting the skull in two were, IMO, to help make the murder look like the work of a foreign terrorist and thus divert suspicion away from the sexual aspects of the killing and hence divert suspicion away from a family member.

BlueCrab
Click to expand...
Sinking the cord, and splitting of the skull, as you say, were in fact a by-product of the deadly force that was used on JBR. This is because it is established that JBR was murdered by an attacker who was in fact using deadly force. The motive behind the deadly force isn't new: prevent JBR from becoming a witness.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The headbash IMO followed the strangulation to assure JBR couldn't be revived. Strangulation alone doesn't guarantee for any perp that she couldn't be revived. Bobby Franks provides a good comparison. He was strangled, and hit over the head. So was Bob Crane. Its a MO.
Click to expand...
I have the book: The Crime of the Century by Hal Higdon (The Leopold and Loeb Case).

Leopold & Loeb picked out Bobby Franks as a target for a lark, something they could remember to bond each other with and prove their Nietzchian superiority. They had previously bought a rope with the intention to strangle and had also considered etherization. Bobby Franks was strangled first, struggled, then they stuck the gag down his throat. Then he was bashed. Both argued that the other did the head bashing with the wrapped chisel. They hid the body in a culvert on 118th Street in Chicago.

Clarence Darrow defended them in The Crime of the Century. Darrow was a veteran of the CHAUTAUQUA circuit and very coincidently there was a CHAUTAUQUA Park righht behind the university in Boulder.

They pleaded their defense claiming Nietzche was being permeated into every university in the civilized world. You then know what happened in Germany.

The L&L ransom note reads like the JonBenet RN.

No wonder many websleuthes have compared this crime to JonBenet.

Did our perp intentionally throw in hints of the L&L crime? Was JonBenet to take over the Crime of the Century? Bobby Franks was strangled, suffocated and head bashed. Is that why JonBenet was garroted and headbashed?
 
Rupert said:
I would like to concentrate on why the perp both Garroted and Bashed JonBenet. There have been various reasons I know of suggested:

1. perhaps the Head Bash occurred first by accident and the Garrote was a coverup (ST) - with an amazing lack of blood loss,
2. the perp enjoyed the Garrote and then finished off with the Head Bash because 3of a struggle - again an amazing lack of blood loss
4. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash for just sadistic pleasure,
5. the perp first did the Garrote and then the Head Bash as a step by step ritual (eg Celtic midwinter garrote/bash sacrifice).

I'm just a laymen here, but the low loss of blood to the Head Bash suggests to me that it was NOT done immediately after the Garrote and therefore suggests to me that it was planned that way.

I think it is central to the motive and important to discuss in itself. Why do you think both the Garrote and Head Bash were done?
Click to expand...


A 6th option to add to your list is that of Accidental Head Trauma.

It is very common during homicides for perpetrators to lose control of the dead body, since it becomes an inert force, or/and whilst moving the body the head strikes the floor!

JonBenet has many marks and abrasions on her body, a simple explanation may be after being garrotted with the cord alone, her killer dragged her body, possibly by the feet, she may have been wearing or wrapped in something that caused those stun-gun like impressions/abrasions on her skin, whilst being dragged her head, lets be tactful and say bounced off the floor, or down a stair or two, thus splitting it open. The killer need not be aware of this!

Also its entirely possible that an intruder slipped into the house with the sole intention of killing JonBenet. He/she whacked JonBenet, whilst her back was turned, over the head rendering her unconscious, JonBenet falls to the ground, incurring abrasions, and her attacker loops the ligature cord around her neck, strangling her to make certain she is dead!


.
 
UKGuy said:
A 6th option to add to your list is that of Accidental Head Trauma.

It is very common during homicides for perpetrators to lose control of the dead body, since it becomes an inert force, or/and whilst moving the body the head strikes the floor!

JonBenet has many marks and abrasions on her body, a simple explanation may be after being garrotted with the cord alone, her killer dragged her body, possibly by the feet, she may have been wearing or wrapped in something that caused those stun-gun like impressions/abrasions on her skin, whilst being dragged her head, lets be tactful and say bounced off the floor, or down a stair or two, thus splitting it open. The killer need not be aware of this!

Also its entirely possible that an intruder slipped into the house with the sole intention of killing JonBenet. He/she whacked JonBenet, whilst her back was turned, over the head rendering her unconscious, JonBenet falls to the ground, incurring abrasions, and her attacker loops the ligature cord around her neck, strangling her to make certain she is dead!.
Click to expand...
UKGuy,
I think the abrasian (or stun gun mark) is on the right side of the face while the head bash traume is on the other. Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, the head bash no doubt must have been from a tremendous force. If JonBenet was flung across the room at such force, then where are the other traumas on the same side of the body? And just what is it that Steve Thomas thinks forced that accidental injury? The taps on the bathtub? Why hasn't that been clarified if it is the BPD theory?

Seriously, I just don't see such brutal head bash as accidental.

Apparently a Denver doctor stated that there are cases where little blood loss has resulted in head trauma. But I would think that is rare and this would take the cake. I seriously doubt the garrote came after the head bash.

Rupert
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Accidental strangulation borders the very outer rims of reality to such an extent that it shouldn't even be mentioned
Click to expand...
There are those who think that JB may have been strangled initially by a cord, such as Nintendo 64, and the garrotte was devised to hide the tell tale markings of the original cord. So, not necessarily classified as an accidental strangulation, but an accidental death.
 
Rupert said:
UKGuy,
I think the abrasian (or stun gun mark) is on the right side of the face while the head bash traume is on the other. Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, the head bash no doubt must have been from a tremendous force. If JonBenet was flung across the room at such force, then where are the other traumas on the same side of the body? And just what is it that Steve Thomas thinks forced that accidental injury? The taps on the bathtub? Why hasn't that been clarified if it is the BPD theory?

Seriously, I just don't see such brutal head bash as accidental.

Apparently a Denver doctor stated that there are cases where little blood loss has resulted in head trauma. But I would think that is rare and this would take the cake. I seriously doubt the garrote came after the head bash.

Rupert
Click to expand...

Rupert,

Yes the garrote after the head bash does seem out of sequence, but it may be what happened.

I'm only citing the abrasions and marks, since its possible they could have resulted after her death whilst her body lay unattended or while she was being moved, I'm not committed on this.

The head bash as the result of being dragged or her falling if she was garroted from behind, Luca Brsasi style, it is very very common in homicides, and is often used to distinguish between those experienced in the use of violence, or unplanned homicides.


.
 
Nehemiah said:
There are those who think that JB may have been strangled initially by a cord, such as Nintendo 64, and the garrotte was devised to hide the tell tale markings of the original cord. So, not necessarily classified as an accidental strangulation, but an accidental death.
Click to expand...
Sometimes a banana is just a banana. JBR was murdered by strangulation and headbash. The killer used deadly force on JBR, a fact that is easily proven. There was no accidental strangulation. There was no accidental death either. It can be glossed over, sugar-coated, hyped, warped, and spun, but there's no getting around this fact.
 
UKGuy said:
It is very common during homicides for perpetrators to lose control of the dead body, since it becomes an inert force, or/and whilst moving the body the head strikes the floor!


.
Click to expand...
My guess is a homicide victim has about the same chance of having their skull 'accidentally fractured' as they have of being struck by lightning (lol).
 
Rupert said:
(The Leopold and Loeb Case).

They hid the body in a culvert on 118th Street in Chicago.

The L&L ransom note reads like the JonBenet RN.

Did our perp intentionally throw in hints of the L&L crime? Was JonBenet to take over the Crime of the Century? Bobby Franks was strangled, suffocated and head bashed. Is that why JonBenet was garroted and headbashed?
Click to expand...


Rupert,

That 118 is interesting. There never has been a convincing explanation why JonBenet's killer asked for a $118,000 ransom.
 
I think the head bash came when the person strangling her realized it was a far longer and difficult task than he/she ever imagined. I believe her head was bashed when she began to convulse or it seemed to be taking forever to finish little Jon Benet off.
 
Rupert, BC, yep, yep, it sure would fit with the "rest" of the ransom note. Who would remember all of these bits and pieces , other than a "student" of serial killings and violent flicks? Does this ring of a "rainman" type? It's no wonder McElroy was on a suspect list, given his obsession with the serial killer reading room, his mention of films, his writings about "offing a barbie", yet, he isn't the ONE! Scary to think there was another like him, but given Boulder's "charm" and seemingly a wonderful place for the mentally ill to hang their hats, there may be hundreds like him. The BPD should have sought out and interviewed each and every one.
Is it impossible to think that someone very close to the Ramseys chose one of this kind as a boyfriend, allowing him time in the house while on "duty" babysitting or cleaning?
 
sissi said:
Rupert, BC, yep, yep, it sure would fit with the "rest" of the ransom note. Who would remember all of these bits and pieces , other than a "student" of serial killings and violent flicks? Does this ring of a "rainman" type? It's no wonder McElroy was on a suspect list, given his obsession with the serial killer reading room, his mention of films, his writings about "offing a barbie", yet, he isn't the ONE! Scary to think there was another like him, but given Boulder's "charm" and seemingly a wonderful place for the mentally ill to hang their hats, there may be hundreds like him. The BPD should have sought out and interviewed each and every one.
Is it impossible to think that someone very close to the Ramseys chose one of this kind as a boyfriend, allowing him time in the house while on "duty" babysitting or cleaning?
Click to expand...
Sissi,
Yep, lately this guy got me interested too. I didn't know he was obsessed with the serial killer reading room and mentioned films!

Also, Irish name, works on websites (who knows maybe APAC's). (See where I'm going BlueCrab? Maybe he got to know JBR through NI.) I could not figure what the K.J.L.N Group was that last updated APAC. It should be some type of CU "student group".

The Prophet was the only guy with the barbie doll connection. At that time there was activist commotion on the Sweatshop Barbie thing. Some well known activist had visited Boulder about that time or earlier. All this could have added inspiration to a nutcase (not necessarily The Prophet) who was just aching to do a little Barbie anyway. Motive might have been the thrill kill, but the politics was used as a ruse and inspiration.

Why did The Prophet post what he did anyway? Did he do it as a political statement? Or just a vent for anger relating to Barbie? The Barbie made in sweatshops was a Christmas present to little American girls. Some time ago I even thought of "Sweatshop Barbie Takes Christmas".

No doubt, the Barbie thing is a significant part of the puzzle.
 
When I go "back" to '97 or '98, and type in prophet at bigfoot, why do the key words include Jonbenet?

Here is a pic of something I just got..

From: prop...@bigfoot.com (Prophet)
Subject: Serial Killer Web Library
Date: 1997/03/03
Message-ID: <prophet-ya023580000303970813590001@news.earthlink.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 222769310
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Keywords: serial kill mass murder death torture jonbenet ramsey
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime


Please take advantage of the Serial Killer Reading Room online. And do not
hesitate to explore all of the controversial Web site, Wide Awake!
 
Dr. Cyril Wecht has maintaned that he believes the garrote pinched a main nerve causing Jon Benet to stop breathing and seem for all appearances dead. He believes the blow was delivered when the murderer thought she had died and wanted to hide what she died of. Or became angry angry did it.
 
UKGuy said:
A 6th option to add to your list is that of Accidental Head Trauma.

It is very common during homicides for perpetrators to lose control of the dead body, since it becomes an inert force, or/and whilst moving the body the head strikes the floor!

JonBenet has many marks and abrasions on her body, a simple explanation may be after being garrotted with the cord alone, her killer dragged her body, possibly by the feet, she may have been wearing or wrapped in something that caused those stun-gun like impressions/abrasions on her skin, whilst being dragged her head, lets be tactful and say bounced off the floor, or down a stair or two, thus splitting it open. The killer need not be aware of this!

Also its entirely possible that an intruder slipped into the house with the sole intention of killing JonBenet. He/she whacked JonBenet, whilst her back was turned, over the head rendering her unconscious, JonBenet falls to the ground, incurring abrasions, and her attacker loops the ligature cord around her neck, strangling her to make certain she is dead!


.
Click to expand...
I guess I have always thought that she was hit on the head first. To me, if she was strangled right after getting hit in the head, then she wouldn't have much blood in the brain because the strangulation would have cut off the blood supply to the brain. In my mind, this explains why there wasn't bleeding in the brain.
 
I believe that it was all premeditated and that the strangulation was not accidental and that the head injury must have came just as JonBenet was deceased from the strangling with the cord. One thing has bothered me though. Why wasn't the face red or discolored from trapped blood like some victims of strangling? I haven't read anything about that happening or why not.
 
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