Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

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:rose: Rest in peace, Laura :rose:

laura-babcock.jpg


Laura Babcock disappeared from Toronto in 2012. Dellen Millard and Mark Smich are facing first-degree murder charges in her death. (Facebook)

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-trial-day-14-1.4396243
 
When he took the stand at TB's trial, MS showed he was no stupid clueless sidekick. He clung to his story for days, and many a times proved to be very quick with an answer. His Disney line along with I believe correcting a lawyer's mistep, showed me at least he was more than just street smart. MOO

I think clean, sober and off drugs he’s a smart guy. The state he was in at the time of the murders? I’m not as sure.
 
It does, and I agree with that line of consideration. It's just not clear to me what the legal reality would be if MS was actively involved in the setting up of circumstances intended to facilitate the disposal of bodies with criminal intent - maybe bodies you create, maybe as rake guy in an incinerator-for-hire scheme, maybe this, maybe that, maybe, maybe, maybe. It strikes me that DM needs literally nothing from MS to murder Laura. Aside from the initial hook up with Ish via MS, DM did his own negotiating for his gun and his bullets - if they were even relevant to this crime. He doesn't need MS to lure her to Maplegate, or subdue her, or make her stay. He doesn't need or request any help disposing of her phone, rolling her in a tarp, or driving her to his farm. He appoints himself the Lord of her possessions and hands them out over time. He only appears to need him for the incineration where he snaps pictures of MS generously, and keeps them for himself. Maybe for a rainy day.

MS is the guy that wants to "run wars" directly after incinerating a human being. Is that because he's a callous, unfeeling killer? Or because more or less, his conscience is clear?
but slightly Murky.
 
The letter on page 93 is interesting. DM tells CN to destroy the letters but the news and science articles can be kept. I guess he was sending her those clippings. DM also mentions that he saw his mom in the morning and that a messenger' will be coming soon for the letter he is writing.
 
I'm worried my question won't be seen or answered now that we have a new weekend thread, so I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, hope thats okay :)

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by RezButt

When Alex Pierson covered the TB trial for 900CHML she said to Scott Thompson, ‘one day I’ll be able to tell you how those letters got out and you’ll fall off your chair.’

I get that it’s easy to smuggle things in and out of jail. Drugs are as readily available if not more in jail than on the street. I’m just curious if DM greased a guard or janitor a few bucks to pass them off.


I had to bring this back up because I find it SO intriguing. I never heard this interview.

I always thought it was Rabbit, visiting with DM in jail, and passing on his letters. That's how CN's testimony suggested it to be. There was also talk of his lawyer as well. But now it's being said that DM was denied "contact visits". Do we know this to be true?
 
DM's letter begins with, "The night Laura disappeared," and proceeds to create a story about how she died that night. I find it interesting that he didn't make up a less revealing or incriminating story, such as her disappearing to start a new life under a new identity. Some of DM's cross-examinations in this trial seemed to hint that LB's death is not a certainty, but in this letter he treats it as a fact. That means that when he wrote it, he must have been confident that law enforcement had or would soon have enough evidence to prove that LB did in fact die that night, otherwise he wouldn't have constructed such a specific story to fit around it.

This was probably super obvious to everybody else, but it only just clicked for me!
 
I'm worried my question won't be seen or answered now that we have a new weekend thread, so I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, hope thats okay :)

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by RezButt

When Alex Pierson covered the TB trial for 900CHML she said to Scott Thompson, ‘one day I’ll be able to tell you how those letters got out and you’ll fall off your chair.’

I get that it’s easy to smuggle things in and out of jail. Drugs are as readily available if not more in jail than on the street. I’m just curious if DM greased a guard or janitor a few bucks to pass them off.


I had to bring this back up because I find it SO intriguing. I never heard this interview.

I always thought it was Rabbit, visiting with DM in jail, and passing on his letters. That's how CN's testimony suggested it to be. There was also talk of his lawyer as well. But now it's being said that DM was denied "contact visits". Do we know this to be true?

Off topic but for future reference:

To quote a post from an older thread ...

In the old thread, click on the actual post # in the upper right hand corner. When it comes up, click "Reply with Quote", then right click and choose "Select All", then right click and choose "Copy". Then just paste that into your new post in the new thread.
 
Because DM appears to have "nothing to lose" ...

What prevents him from stating to the jury,
"I think it's important for you guys to know that both Mark and I are already serving time for First degree murder. We were both found guilty of killing a guy named Timothy Bosma."
 
Because DM appears to have "nothing to lose" ...

What prevents him from stating to the jury,
"I think it's important for you guys to know that both Mark and I are already serving time for First degree murder. We were both found guilty of killing a guy named Timothy Bosma."

I was sort of wondering along these lines, too. Is DM's psychopathy such that he thinks he has done a wonderful job and will soon be acquitted? Or is he aware enough to know that he's at the end of the line. If he is, what's stopping him from doing something really crazy to derail the trial, possibly force a retrial? What does he really have to lose?
 
Because DM appears to have "nothing to lose" ...

What prevents him from stating to the jury,
"I think it's important for you guys to know that both Mark and I are already serving time for First degree murder. We were both found guilty of killing a guy named Timothy Bosma."

It's up to 5 years apparently. Isn't that a substantial deterrent?
 
Because DM appears to have "nothing to lose" ...

What prevents him from stating to the jury,
"I think it's important for you guys to know that both Mark and I are already serving time for First degree murder. We were both found guilty of killing a guy named Timothy Bosma."

Mistrial.
 
Wow, SO - hello - I'm new to this thread. I recall hearing about the Tim Bosma disappearance when it happened and have briefly heard of Laura Babcock over the last few years. I have finally immersed myself in the case(s), and... wow.

Still catching up with everything, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that Christina Noudga had no knowledge of what was happening around her. That being said, maybe I say that as I'm quite a nosy girlfriend, or nosy person in general (respectfully so). So if my boyfriend was continuously bringing trailers by and generally doing suspicious activities, damn right I'd be asking questions. And I'd want those answers, too. But perhaps CN really didn't care, and for that reason, didn't ask too many questions. It didn't matter to her either way. I'm not sure... I'm just blabbing. But I don't have a lot of respect for her, lets put it that way.

I find myself really heartbroken for Laura Babcock. The relationship between her and Dellen really reminded me of the volatile one I had with my ex. He wasn't as scummy as DM, but on the right path. It was unhealthy. Thankfully though, my ex and I had completely different social circles and I had a good, supportive group of friends, and his friends weren't quite the low-lives that DM and MS etc are. My point is that LB was so clearly entranced with DM - and he knew that. And it seemed that Laura surrounded herself (not necesserily on purpose, I'm not blaming her) with people who couldn't have cared less about her wellbeing. Besides her own family, it doesn't appear that anybody really had her back, ever. With the exception of Shawn Lerner (spelling?), who was active in searching for her.

Anyway... DM is an abismol excuse for a human being. I don't think the fact that he's representing himself helps his defence whatsoever. I understand his tactics, but they're doing more harm than good, IMO.

Sorry for all the blabbing. If this goes against anything, feel free to delete my post!
 
Today's development with the letters and incriminating "confession of sorts" by DM, basically admitting Laura is dead gives him a definite M1. I have always felt that MS is just as guilty, totally complicit and lacking moral compass. MS yelling, "don't tell them anything" to MM as he was getting arrested says it all. He knew. He was in on it. He certainly didn't call 911 like the fine upstanding citizen he was when LB overdosed allegedly!

M1 for both.

JMO
 
Wow, SO - hello - I'm new to this thread. I recall hearing about the Tim Bosma disappearance when it happened and have briefly heard of Laura Babcock over the last few years. I have finally immersed myself in the case(s), and... wow.

Still catching up with everything, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that Christina Noudga had no knowledge of what was happening around her. That being said, maybe I say that as I'm quite a nosy girlfriend, or nosy person in general (respectfully so). So if my boyfriend was continuously bringing trailers by and generally doing suspicious activities, damn right I'd be asking questions. And I'd want those answers, too. But perhaps CN really didn't care, and for that reason, didn't ask too many questions. It didn't matter to her either way. I'm not sure... I'm just blabbing. But I don't have a lot of respect for her, lets put it that way.

I find myself really heartbroken for Laura Babcock. The relationship between her and Dellen really reminded me of the volatile one I had with my ex. He wasn't as scummy as DM, but on the right path. It was unhealthy. Thankfully though, my ex and I had completely different social circles and I had a good, supportive group of friends, and his friends weren't quite the low-lives that DM and MS etc are. My point is that LB was so clearly entranced with DM - and he knew that. And it seemed that Laura surrounded herself (not necesserily on purpose, I'm not blaming her) with people who couldn't have cared less about her wellbeing. Besides her own family, it doesn't appear that anybody really had her back, ever. With the exception of Shawn Lerner (spelling?), who was active in searching for her.

Anyway... DM is an abismol excuse for a human being. I don't think the fact that he's representing himself helps his defence whatsoever. I understand his tactics, but they're doing more harm than good, IMO.

Sorry for all the blabbing. If this goes against anything, feel free to delete my post!

Thank you for the great post! It is mind boggling to think people like these two are walking amongst us.
 
Welcome CherryKitty! :)

It’s a dark, twisted set of interrelated cases that I don’t think will ever completely stop shocking me, or ever completely stop eluding me just a little bit. Welcome to the thread.
 
There's a belief that you're the sum of your 5 closest friends. DM's closest friends were MS, CN, AM, MM & SS.

"Low Intelligence Award" goes to DM. The only thing that helped DM was his access to the Millard money and all of the privileges that came with it. It masked how stupid DM really is. DM is simply a well funded psychopath with very good manipulation skills. No person with a brain in their head would put pen to paper and write dozens of incriminatory letters while in jail.

"Sexual Deviant award" goes to CN. She's a smart cookie with few morals. IMO, CN is a psychopath and sexual deviant. I believe that DM murdering LB turned her on. Knowing what those letters said, CN wasn't holding onto them because she couldn't find a shredder. They turned her on. I don't think CN would have ever have thought about blackmailing DM knowing that DM had mastered operating the Eliminator. That would have tied her for the "low intelligence" award.

"Submissive Psycho Side Kick Award" goes to MS. He was submissive to DM- asked him for money, asked him for drugs. DM instructed him to "sew" some stuff to make his own pocket change, needed DM for transportation. As much as DM's crimes turned CN on, they made MS feel powerful and important.

"Gold Digging Enabler Award" - the one and only Rabbit. Of course Rabbit needed WM out of the pic to really make a power move as a successful gold digger and Mother of the Year- she thought she was set for life until DM needed a truck. Actually, DM's fate has been sealed because of Rabbit. If she refused to deliver the letters to CN- they wouldn't be resting in the Jury's lap today.

Tied for the "Stupid Blind Bat Award" are MM, SS, AM- I don't need to say more.

So, all together, they add up to a big stack of stupid with 3 innocent murder victims in their wake.

Now, there was a letter in the TB case where DM was telling CN how he was going to address the Jury. IMO, he's probably spending the long weekend writing out his spectacular address. I don't believe for one minute that he wants the trial to end with the letters.

As far as CN is concerned, maybe she's coming home to lend some support to Rabbit as the trial comes to an end? The two of them seem to find comfort with each other.
 
The letter on page 93 is interesting. DM tells CN to destroy the letters but the news and science articles can be kept. I guess he was sending her those clippings. DM also mentions that he saw his mom in the morning and that a messenger' will be coming soon for the letter he is writing.

Am I remembering correctly that he also wrote in a letter that someone was pulled over either going to or leaving his mother's house? IMO there is someone else involved with the letters. I wonder if we'll ever get the story?
 
I'm worried my question won't be seen or answered now that we have a new weekend thread, so I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, hope thats okay :)

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by RezButt

When Alex Pierson covered the TB trial for 900CHML she said to Scott Thompson, ‘one day I’ll be able to tell you how those letters got out and you’ll fall off your chair.’

I get that it’s easy to smuggle things in and out of jail. Drugs are as readily available if not more in jail than on the street. I’m just curious if DM greased a guard or janitor a few bucks to pass them off.


I had to bring this back up because I find it SO intriguing. I never heard this interview.

I always thought it was Rabbit, visiting with DM in jail, and passing on his letters. That's how CN's testimony suggested it to be. There was also talk of his lawyer as well. But now it's being said that DM was denied "contact visits". Do we know this to be true?

I can’t remember the exact date, but I’m pretty sure it was either after the verdict or during deliberations. It’s on sound cloud if you search ‘900CHML’

Re: contact visits, I can’t say for certain but I know in DM’s jailhouse interviews for the Spec and the Star (I think) it was mentioned that it was an interview done through glass. Believe it was the same with the interview with Smich.

I would assume that the accused in a 1st degree murder case are denied the right to be able to have physical contact with their visitors, especially in a case this high profile.
 
My crystal ball tells me that sadly, 3-4yrs down the road after the conclusion of the third WM trial, the extreme narcissistic DM will get dopamine fix once again behind bars, as an actor plays him in the lead role of some sort of made for TV movie. You just know it's coming.
 
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