Should Raven take a polygraph test?

A lot of people are uncomfortable taking a polygraph even if they ARE innocent. I think that I'd be nervous about it myself. Is there a way that Raven could arrange to take one on his own at his lawyer's office or something? I remember that John Mason in the ridiculous run-away bride case, (ironically on the same night that Janet was murdered I think), was willing to do something like that - arrange for his own polygraph to include videotaping in his lawyer's office. LE wouldn't accept it but it seems that it would be better than nothing anyway - if for nothing else, to at least prove to his family and friends that he's not afraid to take it. Because it seems to me that no matter his family and friends say, they cannot possibly be 100% convinced of his innocence. The lie detector could change that for him.

All things considered, I think that Raven should take a polygraph test.

Sorry, to clarify - the poll question is -

Had Raven taken a polygraph test early on, would it have influenced your opinion on whether or not he was guilty?

In the body of your posts, I'd be interested in what you all think about whether or not Raven should take a polygraph now.

(I didn't make the poll "Should Raven take a polygraph test" only because I figured nearly everyone would answer yes and we wouldn't really learn anything from it.)

If he had taken the polygraph early on and passed, I'd be more way more inclined to believe that he was innocent.

Should he take one now? Sure, why not? If he's innocent, he's got nothing to hide.

COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:




Quote:
Originally Posted by terminatrixator
How about contacting Law Enforcement and making an appointment to take a Lie Detector test? Oh, I'm sorry, did your Attorney inform you not to do this? Does your attorney also believe you are a Stone Cold Murderer too? I bet he does and therefore would not want you take one.


You know, this has always bothered me. Now, I know full well that more often than not, once someone hires an attorney, that the attorney will usually tell the person what to say, what not to say, what to do, what not to do, including a polygraph - but I swear, if it were me, and I KNEW I was innocent, I'd tell my attorney to shove that advice up his *advertiser censored**! I'd be BEGGING LE to give me a polygraph, to show I was NOT GUILTY, and then to allow LE to focus elsewhere.

Now granted, in this situation, LE has never named Raven a POI. But, that said, I'm sure Raven knows by now that he walks around each and every day under a cloud of suspicion, and most likely from LE too, even if they've never said that publically. So if you're in fact 100% innocent, why the hell would you NOT come and offer to take a polygraph from LE? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sure, polygraphs might not be 100% accurate, sure, polygraphs may not be used in court, BUT, if nothing else, volunteering to take a polygraph from LE says that a person is willing to help, and is at least comfortable in coming in and saying, 'you know what, test me, I have nothing to hide!'

COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl
A lot of people are uncomfortable to take a polygraph even if they ARE innocent. I think that I'd be nervous about it myself. Is there a way that Raven could arrange to take one on his own at his lawyer's office or something. I remember that John Mason in the ridiculous run-away bride case, (ironically on the same night that Janet was murdered I think), was willing to do something like that - arrange for his own polygraph to include videotaping in his lawyer's office. LE wouldn't accept it but it seems that it would be better than nothing anyway.


I still don't get it I guess - and maybe you have to be in that situation to really make that choice...but at this point, to me anyway, I just feel like I'd be doing ANYTHING possible to clear my name, and to make sure LE was looking in other directions. And I guess I don't really see the point in taking a polygraph independently of LE? If you're willing to TAKE a test, why would you not take it with LE? It seems to me that taking one "on your own" just implies that you're afraid to face LE, for some reason or another?

Polygraphs to prove innocence?

This is just a message board but what this person says makes a lot of sense:

"Tennessee law currently prohibits the admissibility of polygraph tests as evidence in court. The reason is that the test cannot conclusively determine if someone is lying ... but only analyzes stress responses to questions and answers and compares to a baseline stress response a person exhibits answering normal questions truthfully. The idea is that when people are lying, they exhibit more stress symptoms than they do when normally telling the truth.

The test is not 100% reliable because people can learn to manipulate their own stress responses to defeat the test ... and ... people who are lying but who are skilled enough actors to place themselves in a physiological state of self-belief (kind of like you do when trying to realistically portray a character role on stage) can defeat the test (as well as sociopaths who feel no guilt whatsoever about lying and can lie just as easy as they can tell the truth)."

So what the heck Raven, why don't you take the test? You've got nothing to lose. They're not admissable in court and you might just come out believable. It's worth a shot. And then maybe LE can move on in the investigation and get closer to finding your wife and baby's killer.

Jenifred said:

If he had taken the polygraph early on and passed, I'd be more way more inclined to believe that he was innocent.

Should he take one now? Sure, why not? If he's innocent, he's got nothing to hide.

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I agree - if Raven had taken a polygraph and PASSED it, soon after Janet's murder, I would have been much more inclined to believe in his innocence too. Now? It surely can't hurt anything.

Well, if he had taken a polygraph immediately after the Murder, I would be inclined to agree and Raven's guilt or innocence would not have been in question here.

If The Raven goes to the Durham Police Department and takes it, and passes, then it would mean something to me.

If Raven decided to go to an Independent Testing Agency, I would not put much faith in it. If the Raven took it independently, there are too many variables involved whether he passed or failed in my opinion.

Without the tester having the correct knowledge on how to administer the testing, whether or not Raven purchased books and practiced taking a test in the past, would be in question.

Whether or not he used mental breathing techniques to pass, or even tranquilizers to slow the pulse rate would be questions that would lead me to not trust the validity of the test. If he was not also subjected to a blood test to test for drugs in his system that can help in his responses, and slow his breathing down, this test would mean nothing to me.

There is much controvery on testing sociopaths and psychopaths, such as Raven. Sociopaths and psychopaths, have been lying for a long time, and start believing their lies, and there is some data that shows it is easier for sociopaths to pass a lie detector test than non-sociopaths.

There is other data showing, that even sociopaths or psychopaths that believe their lies, still failed.

There is data to indicate that going to independent agency, and not having the correct questions asked can create a false pretense of passing and unless there is a blood test showing no use of tranquilizers in the system, then the test to me would not be valid.

I offered before, I would go to Durham Police Department and sit in the room with Raven and his attorney and take a Polygraph first, and then let LE do their thing with the Raven.

It's not going to happen though, Raven would NEVER voluntarily go to Durham LE and take a Polygraph Test. Hell, he won't even call them to check on the investigation of Janet's murder.

To qote Dr. Phil: The way you can tell if Raven is lying is if his lips are moving...:liar:

He probably believes his own lies and could do very well on polygraph. However, if he had done it early on it would have given me the impression that--at the very least--he was cooperating and wanted the murder solved.

I will only trust a polygraph that is conducted by LE - not someone Raven selects.

:laugh:

juliagoulia said:

To qote Dr. Phil: The way you can tell if Raven is lying is if his lips are moving...:liar:

He probably believes his own lies and could do very well on polygraph. However, if he had done it early on it would have given me the impression that--at the very least--he was cooperating and wanted the murder solved.

Click to expand...

That's the key here Julia, cooperation! If he was cooperating (even if he didn't take a lie detector test), it could change my opinion.
He's NOT speaking out for Janet, He's NOT offering a reward, He's NOT contacting LE, He's NOT memorizing her on the web (like he did himself before she was murdered), He's NOT trying to find out who murdered his wife. He IS moving away from the crime scene quickly, He IS moving on, He IS going on trips, He IS dating others, He IS financially benefitting from the crime.

It's was raven is and isn't doing that makes him look like such a :loser: and guilty. So, raven, if you don't want to take a lie detector test (for whatever reason), at least contact LE and talk to them. Find out where they are in the case and what YOU can do to help this investigation.

JerseyGirl said:

Sorry, to clarify - the poll question is -

Had Raven taken a polygraph test early on, would it have influenced your opinion on whether or not he was guilty?

In the body of your posts, I'd be interested in what you all think about whether or not Raven should take a polygraph now.

(I didn't make the poll "Should Raven take a polygraph test" only because I figured nearly everyone would answer yes and we wouldn't really learn anything from it.)

Click to expand...

It is almost pointless now. If Raven had taken a polygraph right away when he was initially asked to by LE and had passed, I and many other people would have looked for the killer elsewhere. The way I understand the events to have gone down were that Raven agreed to take the polygraph when he was first asked (the night of the murder) and then when he was due back the next day to take it, LE found out he had gotten a lawyer and would not be taking the polygraph. So now after all this time taking a "private" lie detector test??? No this would not fly with me!!!

SouthEastSleuth said:

COPYING FROM THE "DEAR RAVEN" THREAD TO HERE:




Quote:
Originally Posted by terminatrixator
How about contacting Law Enforcement and making an appointment to take a Lie Detector test? Oh, I'm sorry, did your Attorney inform you not to do this? Does your attorney also believe you are a Stone Cold Murderer too? I bet he does and therefore would not want you take one.


You know, this has always bothered me. Now, I know full well that more often than not, once someone hires an attorney, that the attorney will usually tell the person what to say, what not to say, what to do, what not to do, including a polygraph - but I swear, if it were me, and I KNEW I was innocent, I'd tell my attorney to shove that advice up his *advertiser censored**! I'd be BEGGING LE to give me a polygraph, to show I was NOT GUILTY, and then to allow LE to focus elsewhere.

Now granted, in this situation, LE has never named Raven a POI. But, that said, I'm sure Raven knows by now that he walks around each and every day under a cloud of suspicion, and most likely from LE too, even if they've never said that publically. So if you're in fact 100% innocent, why the hell would you NOT come and offer to take a polygraph from LE? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sure, polygraphs might not be 100% accurate, sure, polygraphs may not be used in court, BUT, if nothing else, volunteering to take a polygraph from LE says that a person is willing to help, and is at least comfortable in coming in and saying, 'you know what, test me, I have nothing to hide!'

Click to expand...

EXACTLY! Test me. I will take the test any time. I know I would pass!

BirdHunter said:

The way I understand the events to have gone down were that Raven agreed to take the polygraph when he was first asked (the night of the murder) and then when he was due back the next day to take it, LE found out he had gotten a lawyer and would not be taking the polygraph.

Click to expand...

The NEXT day??? So in the period of the one day between being asked to take the test and actually taking it, Raven retained an attorney? Oh my ...

JerseyGirl said:

The NEXT day??? So in the period of the one day between being asked to take the test and actually taking it, Raven retained an attorney? Oh my ...

Click to expand...

Baby, it was more like HOURS!

BirdHunter said:

Baby, it was more like HOURS!

Click to expand...

I'm truly nauseous.

Raven calls LE and says his wife his hurt, then he says shot.

There's a huge difference between gunshots, and knife wounds, Raven would know this "I got myself a buck knife."

Paramedics come find Janet on her back, Raven states he found her on her knees.

Raven tells people she was still warm, led LE to believe she may still be alive, then he tells others he found her and she was cold.

Told people he tried to "save her", told others he tried to give her (I don't remember the exact terminology) "Priest Blessing" (?)

LE takes Raven to police station, questions Raven, asks him to take a Polygraph. Raven agrees to take one the next day.

Raven then states the only thing missing is the laptop, when Janet had her jewelry there, there were other things to steal in that home.

Raven calls someone from his church (a friend) to pick him up.

Contacts Janet's parents, he's sobbing and hands the phone to someone from his Church. While Raven is standing there, this person informs the family that Janet Committed Suicide, which was what Raven told this person, not that she was murdered, that she committed suicide.

The very next morning, someone in Raven's family starts a TRUST FUND, Raven Hires an Attorney (I'm assuming Julian Mack, who handled his embezzlement)

Raven lawyers up and refused to take the polygraph.

Add to this, the embezzlement, the numerous affairs, talks of insurance floating around, reading Ravenstree, his habitual issues with lying, and anyone believes he didn't kill Janet why?

Raven knew she wasn't shot, and he told many conflicting versions of the events that night, all to make him look as innocent as possible.
And didn't he also tell someone that she committed suicide?
He strikes me as a person that lies so much that he cannot decide which version of his stories he tells best suits his needs at the time. I don't think he is quite the accomplished sociopath as Scott Peterson was/is so that is why he ran as fast as he could to Mommy's house on the other side of the country.
When I saw that sound byte of him after his embezzlement hearing he looked like he was about to poop himself, deer in the headlights kinda thing.

Oh he's an accomplished Sociopath indeed, don't let that day fool you. You have to remember that the Embezzlement hearing was scheduled for later in the week, he thought he was going to that hearing, and nobody would know because it was actually scheduled a few days later and it got moved up.

When he came out, he did NOT expect Media to be there. Hence, the Deer In the Headlights look.

A few days before the scheduled hearing, I checked out the Orange County Docket and it was there, then it disappeared. I knew something was amiss, and I made a few enquiries, and realized the hearing was pushed up. The right people found out and just so happen to be in the area to catch him coming out of the courthouse. He did NOT expect this, as the hearing date was suppose to be on a different day. He was caught off guard.

I think Raven is as accomplished a sociopath and psychopath as Scott Peterson and I believe there are many shades of Jackie Peterson in his Mother.

He's a pathological liar, he's a very dangerous person and I do not put it past the Raven to kill again.

He's a pathological liar, he's a very dangerous person and I do not put it past the Raven to kill again.


Well Trix, I am praying that he is behind bars before that happens.