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  1. #1
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    Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

    This is the Babcock murder trial discussion thread.

    A few general reminders about the trial:

    Any testimony that might remain under Publication Ban, and/or any courtroom discussion that takes place when the jury is not present, is strictly off-limits.

    Only testimony that is published through MSM reporting (newspaper articles, tweets, tv) is allowed. Provide a source link, and keep discussion focused on testimony as it becomes public knowledge.

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    Under copyright law, members who read information at a paid subscription site are NOT legally allowed to bring information obtained through those accounts over to Websleuths or pass the information to a third party to post the information here. All information posted at Websleuths about the trial must be obtained through MSM or MSM social media (i.e. Twitter, Facebook) and linked.

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  2. #2
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    Remembering Laura Babcock and waiting for Justice


    link

    You are not forgotten ... Rest peacefully, Laura


  3. #3
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    Judge refuses Dellen Millard's request for mistrial at Laura Babcock murder trial
    By Shannon Martin, CBC News Dec 14, 2017



    A judge swiftly quashed co-accused Dellen Millard's request for mistrial at the Laura Babcock murder trial in Toronto today.

    Millard, 32, who is acting as his own lawyer, put forward a 10-page application for mistrial Thursday morning complaining the lawyer for co-accused Mark Smich tried to pin Babcock's alleged murder on him.

    Justice Michael Code rejected the argument, and the plea for a mistrial.

    "There was a real possibility that Smich would get in the box and point the finger at you. But he has not done that," Code said.
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 12-15-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTye View Post
    It seems like parts of our legal system are as warped as DM and MS. Not that $ will give the families of TB and LB peace but I would rather them get it then the lawyers... Don't get me wrong. I am not throwing all layers in the same pile... Just the ones who practice solely for $. It used to be a calling... Social Justice. These days I am not so sure! I liken it to the Teaching profession...Some do the job for the love of kids, the satisfaction of helping and teaching others. But these days some do it for the pay and summers off... Some good...Some in it for themselves... Bless the ones who chose their profession mainly to help people in need. To those who are mostly in it for themselves, I suspect that later in life they will regret it and have to (in their own minds) deal with the consequences. my2cents
    MyTye, you may be right about some lawyers but I promise you NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for. A certain percentage is taken from their pay that they earned during the year & deposited to them during the summer. Half the summer is usually spent preparing for the next year because they can't afford to go anywhere anyways!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyCooper View Post
    MyTye, you may be right about some lawyers but I promise you NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for. A certain percentage is taken from their pay that they earned during the year & deposited to them during the summer. Half the summer is usually spent preparing for the next year because they can't afford to go anywhere anyways!
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrodie View Post
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.
    My father in law was a high school teacher and all of the above, I am in total agreement with. He in fact received a huge payout for all the unused sick days he accumulated over his career. This has since been cancelled. The pension is truly gold plated.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrodie View Post
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.
    Off topic and I apologize to folks who feel so, but out of curiosity, why did you leave teaching DB? I also agree with your points. Teachers are vital, and all fields of work have elements of being under-appreciated, but I think teachers bode quite well these days.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-St Off topic and I apologize to folks who feel so, but out of curiosity, [U
    why did you leave teaching DB[/U]? I also agree with your points. Teachers are vital, and all fields of work have elements of being under-appreciated, but I think teachers bode quite well these days.
    After 8 years I just felt that it had lost its challenge for me. I spent my last 4 years teaching in a school for kids that had been kicked out of every other school in the jurisdiction and I mastered that and I just wanted another challenge.

    Teaching never leaves you though and I have taught a few courses in y spare time at University over the years which I have really enjoyed.
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 12-15-2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Repair broken quote

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrodie View Post
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.
    Completley agree DeaconBrodie.....I have many teacher friends and my SO is a teacher.....he gets paid over 100k a year (and has 2 full months off during the summer....couple weeks at xmas and spring break) and has full benefits and a full pension.....he absolutely puts in a few hours over the summer but not anything like what is being described......They do great work but are generally well-compensated (at least where we live......)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyCooper View Post
    NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for.
    In Alberta, high school teachers with 10 years experience earn $99,300 per year. A year is 10 months.
    In BC that same teacher earns $81,500
    And the benefits are far from subpar.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyCooper View Post
    MyTye, you may be right about some lawyers but I promise you NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for. A certain percentage is taken from their pay that they earned during the year & deposited to them during the summer. Half the summer is usually spent preparing for the next year because they can't afford to go anywhere anyways!
    Wow... I didn't expect the "Teacher" conversation to gain attention and it was not intended...I am a long time Civil Servant and I guess I have the expectation of similar people having the ethics I live by... All Human Beings know right from wrong. I guess this is what I was boiling it down to...Lawyers and Teachers are highly educated... The grey area between right and wrong shouldn't be too wide a stretch for them... As a youngster , my experience was mixed at best. Many teachers dismissed or ignored my needs. Some worked hard to understand. I revere the ones who tried to help!

    DM has a warped perspective that he is smart enough to find loopholes/excuses/errors etc, and exploit them... How do you feel about a lawyer that feels the same? How do you feel about it he wants $ for it? Deep down, we all know what is right and wrong!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTye View Post
    Wow... I didn't expect the "Teacher" conversation to gain attention and it was not intended...I am a long time Civil Servant and I guess I have the expectation of similar people having the ethics I live by... All Human Beings know right from wrong. I guess this is what I was boiling it down to...Lawyers and Teachers are highly educated... The grey area between right and wrong shouldn't be too wide a stretch for them... As a youngster , my experience was mixed at best. Many teachers dismissed or ignored my needs. Some worked hard to understand. I revere the ones who tried to help!

    DM has a warped perspective that he is smart enough to find loopholes/excuses/errors etc, and exploit them... How do you feel about a lawyer that feels the same? How do you feel about it he wants $ for it? Deep down, we all know what is right and wrong!
    It's a defence lawyer's job to do everything that they can, as long as it is both legal and ethical to create that often elusive 'reasonable doubt' for their client. This includes exploiting errors and 'loopholes' in the Crown's case. I do object to the term loophole though because it implies that the issue is simply a minor technicality which defence lawyers exploit to get their guilty clients off.

    In my view, any 'loopholes' that may have existed in the past have all been closed long ago. What people now view as loopholes are in fact protections which are put into place by our Courts, our politicians and our Charter in order to protect all of our rights and freedoms and to guarantee everyone gets a fair trial. A defence lawyer would be negligent if they did not ensure that every available protection be provided for their client.

  13. #13
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    It's late Friday night here and I will speed read to catch you all up when I wake up let's hope today is the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *Verdict Watch* #2

    Gonna spend my day in airports today working my way home. I just know the verdict will come down while Iím in the air. Letís hope that today is the day. Itís time for Laura to see Justice.


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  15. #15
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    Not sure if this article had been posted, DM is a real piece of work.

    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star...ert-blame.html

    Judges can move mountains. Code called upon the prosecution’s investigator to at least try reaching the fellow. Mere minutes later, the cop returned. Why, goodness, he’d managed to get this elusive person on the phone lickety-split. The man wasn’t in London, as Millard had claimed. He was still in Ottawa. Yes, he could come to Toronto.
    Code, reaching for his pen: “I can make a subpoena to get him here tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. and you can pay for it.”
    You, Millard.
    “I’ve been incredibly generous with time for you to prepare. I was shocked that you hadn’t told this witness to be here on Monday.”

    This episode, which of course took place in the jury’s absence, amply illustrated tactics that Millard employed throughout the seven week trial — stalling, whining, diverting blame, exhibiting a monumental sense of entitlement.

    Like the dilettante fortune heir he was.

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