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  1. #16
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    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuneBug67 View Post
    I honestly don’t see a path where the jury doesn’t conclude that Laura was killed and her body incinerated. It’s hard to imagine that any reasonable doubt would linger there, although I think they will have had a good, fair and not necessarily short conversation about it.

    JuneBug67, I hope you are 100% correct.

  2. #17
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    May 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettyCooper View Post
    MyTye, you may be right about some lawyers but I promise you NOBODY gets into teaching for the pay! They're paid much, much less than they deserve, have hardly any opportunity for promotion, zero bonuses or rewards for a job well done & pretty subpar benefits. The summers off are forced vacation time that they are NOT paid for. A certain percentage is taken from their pay that they earned during the year & deposited to them during the summer. Half the summer is usually spent preparing for the next year because they can't afford to go anywhere anyways!
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.

  3. #18
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    Oct 2011
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    Muskoka, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuneBug67 View Post
    I honestly don’t see a path where the jury doesn’t conclude that Laura was killed and her body incinerated. It’s hard to imagine that any reasonable doubt would linger there, although I think they will have had a good, fair and not necessarily short conversation about it.
    I've tried to review the trial without emotion and excluding any knowledge of the TB trial or DM or MS. I came to these conclusions:

    LB is no longer with us
    DM killed her
    MS may not have directly killed her but was there so could also go down for M1.

    I couldn't figure out if enough evidence was presented to meet the criteria for M1 for MS.

    I'd love to hear others thoughts as they process the trial like a juror should!

  4. #19
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    May 2013
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    182
    I found this to be another interesting article. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...otic-adventure
    This was in 2015 and It looks like he really feels like he's been done wrong in all aspects of his life, his crimes and his media portrayal. Obviously he still feels this way. I find it interesting that he feels he convinced prison staff of his innocence and seems to be very concerned about what people think of him. The portion where he said that soon people will be saying good things about him again... seems very telling. He lives a double life for sure. One of what he wants people to see and think and one that he really is.

  5. #20
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    Oct 2017
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    387
    Does anyone think it is troubling that the jury is out for this long? What does this mean ?, god forbid they don't find DM guilty of M1.
    They are taking longer from the Bosma trial that was months long. Is this a sign that they are not going to find DM and MS guilty of M1?

  6. #21
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    Mar 2016
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    1,595
    Kind of off Topic:

    I wonder if DM started to hone his pied piper skills with Mr. Burns's children? I know he has several, but we only heard the ages of couple of them. DM mentioned his promise to his female cousin while in his first year of jail, and his text to another about "smuggling drugs, and killing hookers" seems to me he had some kind of loyalty and possibly admiration for them.

    He was living with the family, and a serious falling out with Robert occurred when DM was 17. Do we know if the cousin in the text is Mr. Burn's son or daughter? There was mention of cousins from France IIRC. MOO

  7. #22
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    Apr 2016
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    6
    Quote Originally Posted by loveisthemovement View Post
    I've tried to review the trial without emotion and excluding any knowledge of the TB trial or DM or MS. I came to these conclusions:

    LB is no longer with us
    DM killed her
    MS may not have directly killed her but was there so could also go down for M1.

    I couldn't figure out if enough evidence was presented to meet the criteria for M1 for MS.

    I'd love to hear others thoughts as they process the trial like a juror should!
    I agree 100% with you. MS maybe quilt of conspiracy to commit murder and accessory after the fact.

    Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

  8. #23
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    May 2016
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    242
    Quote Originally Posted by loveisthemovement View Post
    I've tried to review the trial without emotion and excluding any knowledge of the TB trial or DM or MS. I came to these conclusions:

    LB is no longer with us
    DM killed her
    MS may not have directly killed her but was there so could also go down for M1.

    I couldn't figure out if enough evidence was presented to meet the criteria for M1 for MS.

    I'd love to hear others thoughts as they process the trial like a juror should!
    I'm going to assume that they are already settled on M1 for DM and they are on to what Justice Code described as 'the closer one' with MS.

    My experience is that when there is clear evidence that an accused has behaved badly, a judge or jury eventually finds them guilty even if the evidence is a little sparse. MS definitely behaved badly and does not come to Court with clean hands. I still think they'll get to M1 for MS.

    If you sleep with dogs, you'll get fleas.

  9. #24
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    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrodie View Post
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.
    My father in law was a high school teacher and all of the above, I am in total agreement with. He in fact received a huge payout for all the unused sick days he accumulated over his career. This has since been cancelled. The pension is truly gold plated.

  10. #25
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    May 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuneBug67 View Post
    I would be happily surprised by a verdict today, but I think it is probably still too early. The evidence and the charge were both complicated, and my guess is that we’ll see that reflected in the length of deliberation.
    I don't know- I'm still trying to figure out why they would request closing arguments. Did one or more believe they heard something in the closing arguments that Codes hadn't addressed in his Charge? Dungey's was basically, MS wasn't involved, didn't know LB etc. DM was "LB isn't even dead" and "that was a deer in the incinerator" and Cameron's was a complete before, during and after synopsis of the murder. Maybe the Jury is questioning why CN wasn't there since DM eluded to the fact that the Crown didn't call her because they were hiding something from the Jury.

    I find their request concerning. From my experience on various Boards that coincidently seem to always have 12 Directors, it's been my experience that usually all Directors are unanimous on an issue; but if its a more contiguous issue, there's usually 2 or 3 voting against it, very seldom 1.

    The 2 or 3 usually state some type of fear for not going with the majority. It's the "what if" seconded by "not having enough information" to make such a serious decision. I can see a Jury being the same and just like a Board of Directors, it really depends on the leadership abilities of the ones opposed. Can they convince the rest that they should have this fear as well.

    The fear is real for them- are they making a mistake and convicting an innocent person? The argument would be that there's doubt that LB is even dead. What if she showed up tomorrow? The second concern is that there's no indication aside for "that girl" indicating that MS even knew LB. Dungey said as much and DM's closing was that LB wasn't dead.

    I'm trusting that there's some good leadership skills on the Jury that can assist on connecting the dots for those that may have fears or doubts. IMO, this 3rd full day of deliberation is very important. This Jury has sat thru a long trial. Some may have lost the Juror they were closest to when the cuts were made. 3 days and nights being sequestered (FWIW, I can't imagine being locked up with my fellow Directors until we made a unanimous decision on something that pales in comparison to a verdict in a murder trial!)

    This is so much more difficult than the TB trial, where even MS via his testimony said he was there. Hopefully they're not stuck on the whether or not LB is deceased and it's just MS. Then, hopefully if it's just MS, they can put all the puzzle pieces together to calm the fears of anyone who are concerned about his involvement. I'm not holding out a lot of hope for today and because it's so close to Christmas, some Jurors may be getting a tad bit impatient; that may slow things down as well. I'll be thrilled if I'm wrong! MOO


  11. #26
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    Nov 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busymom4 View Post
    I found this to be another interesting article. http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...otic-adventure
    It's rather telling that 71% of his responses do not simply answer the question he was asked.

    You're a special snowflake, DM. I'm sorry that with all the grey area in your life that your M1 convictions are going to be very black and white.

  12. #27
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    Nov 2017
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    114
    Quote Originally Posted by winter2017 View Post
    Does anyone think it is troubling that the jury is out for this long? What does this mean ?, god forbid they don't find DM guilty of M1.
    They are taking longer from the Bosma trial that was months long. Is this a sign that they are not going to find DM and MS guilty of M1?
    They have been out less than 72 hours.
    They are 12 people deciding the fate of the lives of 2 other people.

    Think about that.

    Collectively, we are a society that revels in and thrives on instant gratification; the want of a quickly returned verdict is no different.
    But I wish for them to take the time they need to make a thought out decision that they can leave this process feeling proud of, secure in their knowledge that they made the right choice about the lives of 2 other human beings.
    This process is life-changing. Whatever is decided is a life sentence for the jurors, too.

    I don't find it troubling that they've been out "this long," because I don't find the time they've been deliberating to be unreasonable at all.

  13. #28
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    May 2013
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    564
    Quote Originally Posted by ab-initio View Post
    They have been out less than 72 hours.
    They are 12 people deciding the fate of the lives of 2 other people.

    Think about that.

    Collectively, we are a society that revels in and thrives on instant gratification; the want of a quickly returned verdict is no different.
    But I wish for them to take the time they need to make a thought out decision that they can leave this process feeling proud of, secure in their knowledge that they made the right choice about the lives of 2 other human beings.
    This process is life-changing. Whatever is decided is a life sentence for the jurors, too.

    I don't find it troubling that they've been out "this long," because I don't find the time they've been deliberating to be unreasonable at all.
    I agree with you about length of time to deliberate. This is a tricky case with no body, no DNA etc. They are likely doing their due diligence and my guess is that MS may take a little longer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #29
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    May 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    720
    Quote Originally Posted by DeaconBrodie View Post
    I'm sorry Betty but I have to take exception to some o what you have said. I taught high school for 8 years, I was union rep for my school, my daughter is a teacher and I have lots friends who are teachers and retired teachers so I know somewhat of what I speak.

    Poor Pay - currently in my jurisdiction teachers with 10+ years experience earn $105k per year. That's not underpaid especially when you consider 3 months of holidays, or if one accepts your rationale that they aren't paid for summers then that's pretty rich for 9 months of work.

    Zero bonuses - teachers receive the best bonuses possible in the form of appreciation from their students and knowing that they are changing lives. I have on a few occasions had former students recognize me in stores 25 years after I taught them come up to me and tell me what an impact I had on their lives and I can't for the life of me remember who they are. That is bonus that I never get in my current line of work an is worth plenty ore than a monetary bonus.

    Summers aren't paid - it may vary by jurisdiction but summers are paid for otherwise teachers would be eligible for EI benefits during the summer as they would be unemployed.

    Subpar Benefits - when I taught the benefits were top notch and equal to or better than most corporate plans.

    Teachers work half the summer - not any of the ones that I ever taught with.

    You left out the gold plated, fully indexed pension that teachers receive and the fact that they never have to worry about layoffs or downturns in the economy.

    Don't get me wrong, I know teachers do a fantastic an vital job under ever more difficult circumstances, but I just don't buy the claims that teachers are hard done by.
    Off topic and I apologize to folks who feel so, but out of curiosity, why did you leave teaching DB? I also agree with your points. Teachers are vital, and all fields of work have elements of being under-appreciated, but I think teachers bode quite well these days.

  15. #30
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    Dec 2010
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    Toronto, ON
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    820
    Quote Originally Posted by winter2017 View Post
    Does anyone think it is troubling that the jury is out for this long? What does this mean ?, god forbid they don't find DM guilty of M1.
    They are taking longer from the Bosma trial that was months long. Is this a sign that they are not going to find DM and MS guilty of M1?
    It is taking longer than I had expected too. I have confidence that the Jury is just making sure that they have it 100% right and that there won't be room for an appeal.

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