A good read - Black Tape and other interesting bits

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Camper

Camper

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/unexplained.html
Scroll down til you see Fleet Whites picture, then just above that is where you find this bit.

There was tape residue found on the blade of Burke's Swiss Army Knife near the body, but none noted on the body.

*

I don't believe I ever knew this tidbit, but possibly had forgotten it, don't think I would have forgotten this, IF I had read it before.

This link will enlighten new readers to the forum. LOTS of stuff pertaining to the case. Information listed by topic.

If you scroll on down to the Kennedy family info. This was information about how JR behaved, that I had either forgotten or never knew. It is going on ten years since it happened.

Maybe WE=WS'ers need to read everything written by EVERYONE who has written about this cas, all over again.

After nearly ten years, it would probably give us all a new mindset.



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Sorry, too many errors, rumors, unsourced statements and off-the-wall claims to give it any value for me. Might as well put stock in Alan Yu's website claiming JonBenet was killed by Chiang Kai-Shek's "invisible agents."
 
tipper said:
Sorry, too many errors, rumors, unsourced statements and off-the-wall claims to give it any value for me. Might as well put stock in Alan Yu's website claiming JonBenet was killed by Chiang Kai-Shek's "invisible agents."
Click to expand...




I will say that Cyril Wecht, Dr. Lee, BPD Chief Becker, Douglas the FBI profiler, Steve Thomas, JR/PR, FBI, and countless others have their side of the truth and know MORE truths than any of us posters on WS which certainly include myself and most likely you as well. JR/PR know the truth for certain, imop.

The link I posted has value imop, for learning the whole ball of wax as it was melted and pitched at the public, which includes WS'ers as well.

PS: Tipper could you post a source to discount Cyrils note that traces of tape were found on Burke's knife? Thank you.


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Camper said:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebula/9337/unexplained.html
Scroll down til you see Fleet Whites picture, then just above that is where you find this bit.

There was tape residue found on the blade of Burke's Swiss Army Knife near the body, but none noted on the body.

*

I don't believe I ever knew this tidbit, but possibly had forgotten it, don't think I would have forgotten this, IF I had read it before.

This link will enlighten new readers to the forum. LOTS of stuff pertaining to the case. Information listed by topic.

If you scroll on down to the Kennedy family info. This was information about how JR behaved, that I had either forgotten or never knew. It is going on ten years since it happened.

Maybe WE=WS'ers need to read everything written by EVERYONE who has written about this cas, all over again.

After nearly ten years, it would probably give us all a new mindset.



.
Click to expand...

I was reading the Crime Library (www.crimelibrary.com) story on JonBenet, which totally takes the stance that the parents were rightly vindicated. They usually aren't so one-sided in an unslolved case, and if anything tend to side with public oppinion. Anyone have insight into why this might be the case? Funding? Fear of lawsuits? Author bias? Or do they have ligitimate points?
 
SchnauzerMom said:
I was reading the Crime Library (www.crimelibrary.com) story on JonBenet, which totally takes the stance that the parents were rightly vindicated. They usually aren't so one-sided in an unslolved case, and if anything tend to side with public oppinion. Anyone have insight into why this might be the case? Funding? Fear of lawsuits? Author bias? Or do they have ligitimate points?
Click to expand...
I find the crime library website to be very biased in many criminal cases. It's the same with Jeffrey MacDonald, the rightly convicted killler of his family. But from reading that site one gets the impression that all this was a huge miscarriage of justice. But MacD is right where he belongs, sentenced to life.
Therefore I'd suggest reading the "info" on that site with great caution, and always checking out other sources too.

And btw: the Ramseys were not vindicated at all. They have never been eliminated as suspects.
 
I really must be "lagging behind", I thought the knife found was not the one that had been put away by LHP, and was never sourced to Burke?
 
rashomon said:
I find the crime library website to be very biased in many criminal cases. It's the same with Jeffrey MacDonald, the rightly convicted killler of his family. But from reading that site one gets the impression that all this was a huge miscarriage of justice. But MacD is right where he belongs, sentenced to life.
Therefore I'd suggest reading the "info" on that site with great caution, and always checking out other sources too.

And btw: the Ramseys were not vindicated at all. They have never been eliminated as suspects.
Click to expand...
I do understand that they weren't vindicated, believe me.
I'm not even trying to play devil's advocate.
I aspire not to take anything I read, especially on the internet, without "a grain of salt".
I was more interested in whether anyone could advise me as to the nature of their bias, since it seems to be total and completely contrary to everything else I've read.
 
sissi said:
I really must be "lagging behind", I thought the knife found was not the one that had been put away by LHP, and was never sourced to Burke?
Click to expand...





My only recollection sissi is that the R's never owned up to it being Burkes. IF it was not B's knife, then it might have had a perps fingerprints on it.

Burke could most likely have told by looking at it whether it 'might' have been his knife. I doubt that B would ever have had a chance to inspect it.

I would suspect it might have had some forensic evidence within the 'housing' of its blades, wood dust or tiny pieces that possibly would have matched the paint brush handle wood. Fingerprints on it, er not ala - cleaning of the knife, cleaning of the batteries in the flashlight by our 'perp'.

The R's never owned up to complete ownership of the flashlight on the kitchen counter either. EVen though they owned one, WE=WS'ers never knew if the R's found the one they did own that was like the one on the kitchen counter, IF IF my memory is correct.

I also wonder if LHP had an opportunity to look at the knife as well, WE=WS'ers donut know that either.


SchnauzerMom, I would suspect that the R's attorney played BOO so often that many folks decided to not get involved in looking HARD at the Ramnesia and semi known facts or non facts of the case.

I am also stricken by the facts in this case that a Swiss Army knife is unidentified as one the R's owned, and that the flashlight was unidentified as theirs either. How often do we find vital clues/items in a murder case that are IDENTICAL to items that the murder victims family owned, but could not locate em? Hmmm. Ramnesia set in early.


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Camper!!
How the devil are ya?? Unfortunately, I have relapsed! (Will PM you when I get a min - at work!)

Back on topic - RAMNESIA!! LOVE IT!!! you rock!!
 
Camper said:
I will say that Cyril Wecht, Dr. Lee, BPD Chief Becker, Douglas the FBI profiler, Steve Thomas, JR/PR, FBI, and countless others have their side of the truth and know MORE truths than any of us posters on WS which certainly include myself and most likely you as well. JR/PR know the truth for certain, imop.

The link I posted has value imop, for learning the whole ball of wax as it was melted and pitched at the public, which includes WS'ers as well.

PS: Tipper could you post a source to discount Cyrils note that traces of tape were found on Burke's knife? Thank you.


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Click to expand...
I have no idea whether duct tape residue was found on the knife. I do know Patsy didn't "purchase that tape and cord weeks before her daughter was murdered" since it was shown to be manufactured in late November.

I know that JonBenet's eyes were green and not blue.

I know that when John said Patsy "was able to throw up" he was describing the things the American public thought they were able to do. J. RAMSEY: The American public has been led to believe that while we went to bed that night after a wonderful Christmas, brutally beat JonBenet, sexually molested her, strangled her, went to sleep, wrote a three-page ransom note, called the police, sat around the house for four hours, then I went downstairs and discovered her body, and was able to act distraught. Patsy was able to throw up that morning because of gut-wrenching anxiety. She fainted. Help me understand that. Where is our common sense as a society as a race of people?

I know that when the police arrived they didn't find several friends already there.

I know that when he found the body John did not walk directly to the wine cellar when he went downstairs.

These are new to me:
*Much later we learned that Patsy Ramsey had a habit of drawing hearts.

*The Ramsey Family liken themselves to the J.F.Kennedy Clan.

*The housekeeper said that she occasionally saw JonBenet's panties "soaking" in the sink.

*He placed his daughter on the floor near the entry way began CPR. Why did John Ramsey wait until he carried his daughter upstairs to begin CPR?

This is an internet story that I have never seen sourced:
Patsy Ramsey told us that JonBenet was not feeling well on Christmas Day. She was confined to her bedroom to rest. We hear rumors that JonBenet had guests in her "sick room" that day. Her friends were allowed to visit her in her room. Is it true? It has never been confirmed.
If anyone has that interview I'd like to read it.

The press coined the word "duct tape". Really?
http://www.duct-tape.com/

Duct Tape


10 mil Shurtape #618 or,


9 mil Shurtape #600

I know that Patsy's parents could not have remained in Atlanta and refused "to personally comfort their daughter when they heard of JonBenet's murder?" and at the same time moved into the Stine's house with them.

I know the author did not feel the need to include Pan Paugh's description of them that night at the Fernie's:
PAUGH: She had been taken to the home of some of their dear friends, and I laid eyes on her first when I came in the door, and they had her very heavily sedated and lying on the floor on an air mattress with pillows engulfing her entire body.

KING: Did you speak?

PAUGH: I went to her. I held her. She was not able to speak much, but she kept opening her eyes and looking at me and saying, "who would have killed my baby? Who would have done this?" And she said, "you know, somebody killed my baby." And I said "yes, I know. And we wile find out who has done this."
PAUGH: He was a grief-torn man. I had seen him in that light one previous time and that was during the death of his eldest daughter, Beth. He was at some times standing on his feet, at other times, pacing the floor, crying, just so distraught that there was nothing that I knew I could do to relieve his pain at that point.

I know I could set up a site that asks things like: Why did Steve Thomas choose to settle out of court rather than defend his book? He knows the truth is a defense against libel. If his book was the truth he would not have been forced to settle. I could claim psychic abilities and go on and on about how in my communications with Ruth she felt so bad because of her erroneous accusations and now that she and JonBenet are together she knows the parents were totally innocent.

If you want a good overall view, read the Rocky Mountain News article that presents both sides of the story. Not a collection of rumor, error, innuendo, and propaganda.

On a slightly different subject:
My recollection is the Crimelibrary site was once anti-Ramsey. Now they have gone in the other direction. Perhaps they feel it balances things out. Or maybe they feel it is closer to the truth. It would have been better if they had started out with an even-handed article.

 
Or picture framing tape, whatever.

Now on the subject of the knife, if BlueCrabs theory is 60% correct then BR's fingerprints should be on that handle or blade, and if its been forensically cleaned , just as the flash-light was, then no evidence means no proof, but that does not deny us the ability to suspect who cleaned it and why e.g. an intruder would have brought their own knife, even only as a defensive weapon.

From all that I have read about the tape, it appeared to be an ad-hoc addition to JonBenet's staging in the wine-cellar. Anyone with access to a roll of tape who intends to silence someone, will, I guess, wrap it around the head, covering the mouth, at least once.

There was something pertinent or odd about the tape on her mouth, so much so, Fleet White went back to examine it!

Whats curious about this is we have a corpse, and all FW wishes to do is inspect the tape mmm?

I could speculate but it would not be fair on FW!
 
Thorkim said:
Ramnesia ought to be put in every Funk and Wagnells in the country. Classic.
Click to expand...






I am proud of the NEW word I created so many years ago. I did another one, called sexnesia on the Wal Mart forum on the morning after pill squabble. A sexnesia pill would cause people to forget the phys ed part of their date, and just get to know each other mentally, before they create another human being.


Tippers post said this: "This is an internet story that I have never seen sourced:
Patsy Ramsey told us that JonBenet was not feeling well on Christmas Day. She was confined to her bedroom to rest. We hear rumors that JonBenet had guests in her "sick room" that day. Her friends were allowed to visit her in her room. Is it true? It has never been confirmed."
Click to expand...



Donut know about confirmation of 'visitors', but pore old Mr. Barnhill saw one approach the house Christmas Day that he said was JAR, then the R side of the show convinced Mr. Barnhill of his 'visual error', said nopey nope twarent JAR.

Tipper you say in most of the references in your post that 'You Know' specific thingies as fact. Well I would suspect and possibly know that most likely your comments of fact were gleaned from various sources of good and or bad information found in the media.

Thats sorta like picking the florets from the dish of broccoli, and pitching the stalks out cuz one does not like stalks.

WE - as WS'ers, do not have ALL of the information that most likely was or is the truth, that still sits in the hands of law enforcement and the do nothing ex DA in Boulder.


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tipper said:
I have no idea whether duct tape residue was found on the knife. I do know Patsy didn't "purchase that tape and cord weeks before her daughter was murdered" since it was shown to be manufactured in late November.
Click to expand...
You do? Could you post a source for that? My understanding is that a receipt for McGuckins which showed the purchase of an item which *could* have been the duct tape (same price) - but that unfortunately the receipt wasn't itemised so they were not able to tell for certain.

Do you know for certain that this receipt was dated prior to the manufacture of the duct tape? If you can prove this is so, it should be in the Facts and fiction thread.

I know for a fact that a manufactured item can be on a store shelf the day after manufacturing and even within a week if the goods go via a distributor. I know this from experience. I would therefore only conclude that the item on the bill was NOT the duct tape if the receipt was dated prior to the day after manufacture.


 
The only source I can come up with was a 10/21/01 post by BraveHeart on the BB forum that included this paragraph:

"Detectives Thomas and Trujillo later traveled to the Shurtape manufacturing plant in Hickory, North Carolina, where the tape was made. Based on fiber content and type of adhesive they were able to place the date of manufacture sometime in late November, 1996, which meant the tape traveled from plant to crime scene in 4-5 weeks."

I don't know where BraveHeart sourced that from.

BlueCrab
 
Jayelles said:
You do? Could you post a source for that? My understanding is that a receipt for McGuckins which showed the purchase of an item which *could* have been the duct tape (same price) - but that unfortunately the receipt wasn't itemised so they were not able to tell for certain.

Do you know for certain that this receipt was dated prior to the manufacture of the duct tape? If you can prove this is so, it should be in the Facts and fiction thread.

I know for a fact that a manufactured item can be on a store shelf the day after manufacturing and even within a week if the goods go via a distributor. I know this from experience. I would therefore only conclude that the item on the bill was NOT the duct tape if the receipt was dated prior to the day after manufacture.
Click to expand...
Where did I say the receipt was dated prior to the manufacture?

It has been said the receipts are dated 12/2 and 12/9.

I'm not sure your experience from the UK applies here. The tape had to travel nearly 2,000 miles and I'm pretty sure it didn't go by air.
 
tipper said:
Where did I say the receipt was dated prior to the manufacture?

It has been said the receipts are dated 12/2 and 12/9.

I'm not sure your experience from the UK applies here. The tape had to travel nearly 2,000 miles and I'm pretty sure it didn't go by air.
Click to expand...
You didn't say the receipt was dated prior to manufacture - you said you knew that Patsy didn't buy that roll of duct tape weeks before Jonbenet's murder because it had been manufactured in late November.

Well, in order for you to "know" that Patsy didn't buy the tape, your knowledge must be supported by a credible source. Now it appears that what you have stated is no more than an opinion.

Hmm.

You are "prety sure" it didn't go by air. Hmmmm.

The McGuckin's receipts is dated "between" 2nd Dec and 9th dec. Hmmmm

The tape was manufactured in "late" November. Hmmm.

Don't appear to be many facts here. However it does seem perfectly possible for that particular batch of duct tape to have reached McGuckins "between" 2nd Dec and 9th dec - even if it travelled by road. That would make is perfectly possible for Patsy to have purchased the duct tape "between" 2nd dec and 9th Dec.

Let's do the maths - 26-9 = 15. 15 days is just over 2 weeks. That would be weekS.

Perhaps you can explain how it is that you "know" this did not happen? Facts only please - not opinions.

PS - we import a lot of goods here in the UK. We import fruit from the States. That would be more than 2000 miles - and it aint weeks old when it gets here.
 
Jayelles said:
Don't appear to be many facts here. However it does seem perfectly possible for that particular batch of duct tape to have reached McGuckins "between" 2nd Dec and 9th dec - even if it travelled by road. That would make is perfectly possible for Patsy to have purchased the duct tape "between" 2nd dec and 9th Dec.

Let's do the maths - 26-9 = 15. 15 days is just over 2 weeks. That would be weekS.

Perhaps you can explain how it is that you "know" this did not happen? Facts only please - not opinions.

PS - we import a lot of goods here in the UK. We import fruit from the States. That would be more than 2000 miles - and it aint weeks old when it gets here.
Click to expand...
Freshly purchased black duct tape?

If the date of manufacture was only a few weeks before the black duct tape was used in a murder, that suggests the tape was purchased for the murder, and the murder was premeditated. This goes against the flow of an 'accident' hastily 'covered up', doesn't it? If JBR was accidentally killed, and a coverup to make it look like a murder, the tape would have been something that was lying around the house, not freshly purchased.
 
PSS

Some time ago, I send flowers to a lady in California. I sent them via Proflowers and as a result I was able to track the dispatch and delivery of the flowers.

The flowers were dispatched from Florida the day before delivery. That was 1 day for delivery across the US.

Even if they had travelled by road, late november could be anything from 21st November - 30th November. Plenty of time to get to Colorado in time for Patsy's December purchase.
 
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