John's Handwriting

Do you think that the handwriting on this website - supposedly John Ramsey's - looks like the ransom note?

Some letters are very similar, some not. John's also looks like it is written by a leftie, while the note looks written by a right hander, or an ambidextrious person to me.

It looks like someone was trying to copy the writing style of both Ramsey's though...

I certainly think the handwriting is alike. I was AMAZED at how much so......

I am embaressed to admit that I never had even considered for a second that he wrote it.

Do we know exactly what this is? Some kind of court paper? I'm asking because whenever anything needs to be filled out around here, it's always me that does it, not the IrishMister.

You can read a discussion here:-

http://web.tiscali.it/faustobrugnatelli/

A poster called DocG (who has been around for years) believes that John Ramsey is responsible for Jonbenet's death. He is currently debating the case at Webbsleuths (double b).

I have seen it discussed often that handwriting experts don't just look for similarities - they also look for differences. Elsewhere, analogies are being given with descriptions of fish but this is a very poor analogy. I am not a handwriting analyst - couldn't begin to do it and wouldn't attempt to try ... but I think it is not enough to look at the two samples above and say "Yes, there are some similarities - but many, many differences" because :-

1. John Ramsey's sample is small.
2. We must not lose sight of the fact that the ransom note writer was almost certainly trying to DISGUISE his/her writing.

I cannot imagine that IF either Ramsey or a close family friend wrote the note, that they would have done so in their usual handwriting and I would expect to see "many differences".

Apparently, jameson has many more exemplars of John Ramsey's handwriting and she has refused to post them online - saying that they do not look at all similar to the ransom note. My guess is that there are legal reasons why she cannot post them. She says she "made them available" (i.e. sold) to the National Enquirer a few years ago and that they didn't use them. My guess is that part of the sale agreement was that she did not post them online herself.

I agree with posters who say that pre-murder handwriting samples will be more useful than post-murder handwriting samples. The ransom note has been published all over the world and therefore the writer of the note would have a strong motive to change his/her handwriting.

IrishMist said:

Do we know exactly what this is? Some kind of court paper? I'm asking because whenever anything needs to be filled out around here, it's always me that does it, not the IrishMister.

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I believe it's some kind of deposition. It is signed by John Ramsey and is written in the first person.

It is claimed to be John Ramsey's handwriting.

I'm not a handwriting expert, there are some similar letters such as the "s" and the small "f" and "i", however there are enough significant differences, such as the style of the small "a"s and the capital R's that convince me this is NOT the same handwriting. I still believe John killed her, only that Patsy was the writer of the note and both were involved in the coverup.

I think, not being an expert, that the handwriting does look a lot alike. I'd add the a's, t's and s's look alike in addition to the others just mentioned by another poster. The double ll's look sort of alike too in how the last one is wavy. Looking at the Italian handwriting expert's samples, I can see how the letters are the same width, thickness, and many of the same little edgings are exactly alike.

The handwriting looks to me like someone trying like hell to disguise their everyday normal writing.Lots of similarities but lots of differences too.Just feels contrived to me.

John's exemplars appear to be the legal Answer to a legal Complaint, whereby John is the defendant in a civil suit. The Plaintiff's Complaint and the Defendant's Answer are what gets the civil case rolling.

You are correct - it's not a deposition at all. A memory is stirring in my mind from a previous discussion about this. I believe there was some lawsuit about (building?) work which the Ramseys refused to pay for and the contractor took them to court.

I wonder if anyone can throw some more light on this? Didn't the Ramsey lawyers also sue them for non-payment of bills?

Jayelles said:

You are correct - it's not a deposition at all. A memory is stirring in my mind from a previous discussion about this. I believe there was some lawsuit about (building?) work which the Ramseys refused to pay for and the contractor took them to court.

I wonder if anyone can throw some more light on this? Didn't the Ramsey lawyers also sue them for non-payment of bills?

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My recollection of the lawyer's suit (which is very dim and may well be wrong) is it was Burke's lawyers sued the Ramseys in their capacity as executors of Burke's lawsuit awards. The Ramsey's contention was the charges were excessive. I don't remember what the final disposition was. I looked for this a couple years ago and couldn't find the documents. On the other hand I wasn't terribly motivated in my search.

1. motive

Who were the plaintiffs? How much did he owe them? Did this have an effect on their getting future business, did it put them out of business?

tipper said:

My recollection of the lawyer's suit (which is very dim and may well be wrong) is it was Burke's lawyers sued the Ramseys in their capacity as executors of Burke's lawsuit awards. The Ramsey's contention was the charges were excessive. I don't remember what the final disposition was. I looked for this a couple years ago and couldn't find the documents. On the other hand I wasn't terribly motivated in my search.

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Do you remember the builder suit? I'm sure I didn't imagine this. I have a feeling it pertained to work done during the remodelling of the Boulder house.

I'll see if I can find anything in the Elles archives.

Jayelles said:

Do you remember the builder suit? I'm sure I didn't imagine this. I have a feeling it pertained to work done during the remodelling of the Boulder house.

I'll see if I can find anything in the Elles archives.

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Could it be connected to the shower flood? That's the only thing that comes to mind at the moment.

BlueCrab said:

John's exemplars appear to be the legal Answer to a legal Complaint, whereby John is the defendant in a civil suit. The Plaintiff's Complaint and the Defendant's Answer are what gets the civil case rolling.

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Thanks for the explanation, BlueCrab. For reading the word 'defendant' in that paper really made me jump, lol!

looks like a female's handwriting to me - there is a neatness and roundness about it.... perhaps the deposition is a transcription by a secretary, or the handwriting of a lawyer. (or perhaps the handwriting of a wife)

i agree the sample provided looks a lot like the ransom note.

How many letter "s"s are in the word occasion on the document? Click on the foloowing link to see an enlargement:-

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1708&stc=1

Edited to add - if you go to Dr Brugnatelli's page following the link in my post above, then click on graphic comparisons and page 5, you will see that he treats the above word as having a double s. He compares it with the double s in the word bussiness on the ransom note but in order to show that the double s looks similar in both cases. Perhaps, being Italian, Dr Brugnatelli doesn't realise that of greater significance is the fact that the word occasion does not have a double s.
I personally think that I would like to see a better copy of this document. The dot of the i appears to be above the second s and the following letters are a little unclear. I klnow that my dots are not always precisely above the i's. I would say that the above could be a double s - it certainly doesn't look like a letter i - which is probably the most simple letter of the alphabet after all!

I believe that it is Patsy who wrote the ransom note. She is very familiar with John's handwriting so she places it in the note.

Looks to me that the complaint is written using a sharpie...

kazzbar said:

The handwriting looks to me like someone trying like hell to disguise their everyday normal writing.Lots of similarities but lots of differences too.Just feels contrived to me.

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If you want to hear contrived as well as feel it, listen to Patsy's call to 911!