Food for thought..........

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ellen13

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Hi everyone. I know things got a little crazy with our fly by night poster, but I did get two things out of it that you all discussed. Since that thread is closed, I wanted to bring it up here, so here it is:

I had never thought about the words "bring" instead of take and "monitor" instead of "watch." It's a big deal where I live to "bring" something with me when I'm going there (only if I'm on my way)
ie: My friend reminded me to bring the wine to her house because she was there already.
However, if it was someone else telling me, they would say, remember to take
the wine with you. So, even if it doesn't point to the person he indicated, it does make me even more suspicious of who wrote the note, like they plotting out a scene in a movie, not truly thinking from the perspective of a kidnapper
.
Secondly, monitor and watch are two very different words. I monitor things from my computer or even my workplace. But, when you're looking for something or someone outside, you are watching them, not monitoring them if you are on the inside.
Honestly, the analyzation of these words just makes me think that the two people I thought all along were doing a cover-up. Very interesting to really look at the words in the RN. Even how it changes to "we" to "I." I think a good exercize would be to sit down (all of us) and re-write the note ourselves and see what other realizations we have!!! Have any of you ever sat down
and re-wrote that note? I have not, but I'm going to. Like someone always posts and I forget who it it, "The devil is in the details."
 
I always found the statement "I advise you to be rested" to be a very significant statement. It seems so out of place. Why would a kidnapper/molester/extortionist/murderer/whatever-you-want-to-call-him care if the Ramseys were rested? It sounds more like a wife speaking to her husband.

Also, the word choice sounds southern to me. I have never "advised" anyone "to be rested." I say things like "get a good night's sleep" or "get some sleep." I don't think I ever use the word "rested" come to think of it.

I realize this is all stuff that's been said before, but I've always thought this sentence was the one that set off the "not-an-intruder" light in my head.
 
Voice of Reason said:
I always found the statement "I advise you to be rested" to be a very significant statement. It seems so out of place. Why would a kidnapper/molester/extortionist/murderer/whatever-you-want-to-call-him care if the Ramseys were rested? It sounds more like a wife speaking to her husband.

Also, the word choice sounds southern to me. I have never "advised" anyone "to be rested." I say things like "get a good night's sleep" or "get some sleep." I don't think I ever use the word "rested" come to think of it.

I realize this is all stuff that's been said before, but I've always thought this sentence was the one that set off the "not-an-intruder" light in my head.
Click to expand...
It is a significant statement, thats for sure. "I advise you to be rested" is something a coach or military commander might say. IMO it goes hand in hand with the "Victory!" remark, which "harks back to foreign powers" according to an FBI profiler.
 
IMO I can almost hear PR telling JonBenet that she had to be "well rested" (Such as "We've got to make sure you go to bed early tonight so you will be well rested for the pagent.")for an upcoming pagent or event such as that. In a way PR was JonBenet's "coach" for the pagents she was in.



Holdontoyourhat said:
It is a significant statement, thats for sure. "I advise you to be rested" is something a coach or military commander might say. IMO it goes hand in hand with the "Victory!" remark, which "harks back to foreign powers" according to an FBI profiler.
Click to expand...
 
Voice of Reason said:
I always found the statement "I advise you to be rested" to be a very significant statement. It seems so out of place. Why would a kidnapper/molester/extortionist/murderer/whatever-you-want-to-call-him care if the Ramseys were rested? It sounds more like a wife speaking to her husband.

Also, the word choice sounds southern to me. I have never "advised" anyone "to be rested." I say things like "get a good night's sleep" or "get some sleep." I don't think I ever use the word "rested" come to think of it.

I realize this is all stuff that's been said before, but I've always thought this sentence was the one that set off the "not-an-intruder" light in my head.
Click to expand...

I have always speculated that with all the information in the RN,like fat cat,$118,000.00,etc.,that "advise you to be well rested",was another "inside" bit of information.Perhaps,that was something John said often.John traveled alot,and somtimes piloted his own plane,and maybe it was a private joke, because John always said he needed rest or sleep,or needs to be well rested because he's going to be piloting his plane early for a trip.

Just another little tidbit the author of the RN left for John to let him know .... "I know you John,but you don't know me." A taunt.
 
ellen13 said:
Hi everyone. I know things got a little crazy with our fly by night poster, but I did get two things out of it that you all discussed. Since that thread is closed, I wanted to bring it up here, so here it is:

I had never thought about the words "bring" instead of take and "monitor" instead of "watch." It's a big deal where I live to "bring" something with me when I'm going there (only if I'm on my way)
ie: My friend reminded me to bring the wine to her house because she was there already.
However, if it was someone else telling me, they would say, remember to take
the wine with you. So, even if it doesn't point to the person he indicated, it does make me even more suspicious of who wrote the note, like they plotting out a scene in a movie, not truly thinking from the perspective of a kidnapper

Secondly, monitor and watch are two very different words. I monitor things from my computer or even my workplace. But, when you're looking for something or someone outside, you are watching them, not monitoring them if you are on the inside.
Honestly, the analyzation of these words just makes me think that the two people I thought all along were doing a cover-up. Very interesting to really look at the words in the RN. Even how it changes to "we" to "I." I think a good exercize would be to sit down (all of us) and re-write the note ourselves and see what other realizations we have!!! Have any of you ever sat down
and re-wrote that note? I have not, but I'm going to. Like someone always posts and I forget who it it, "The devil is in the details."
Click to expand...
Excellent points, ellen!
Re 'bring' and 'take': My native language is German, and German doesn't make the distinction between 'bring' and 'take'. And I remember from my English language courses that we are to use 'take' when it means in a direction away from the speaker. Ex: "I'll take the letter to the post office"/"Please remember to take the letter to the post office."
Whereas we are to use 'bring' when it means in a direction toward the speaker. Ex: "Please remember to bring me those cookies."/"Have you brought the letter with you?"

And yes indeed, the writer(s) of the ransom note obviously did not have the perspective of a kidnapper because in that case they would have said "please remember to take an adequate size attache to the bank."
So he/she/they did not have the perspective of a kidnapper because there was no kidnapper - a very convincing conclusion.
Remarkable also that the note starts off with "We are a group", and then then suddenly switches to "I". Wow! Should raise a thousand red flags too.
It seems like the panicky writer of the ransom note forgot what he/she had put on paper a few sentences before.

Excellent point too about using the word 'monitor' in that note in an inappropriate context. ITA!

Many, many clues point to that ransom note being a total bogus note, and a very poorly concocted bogus note.

But what beats everything in that note imo is the sentence "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter". Ever heard of a kidnapper calling anyone of their kind 'gentlemen'? LOL!
And some sentences later, the ransom note threatens that these 'gentlemen' will 'behead' JonBenet in case her parents don't follow the kidnapper's instructions? ROFL - this borders on the comical: 'gentlemen' suddenly switching into murderish action - priceless!
Somehing else strikes me as odd too: the ransom note specifically mentions "two gentlemen watching over your daughter". Why would a kidnapper/kidnappers mention the number of people watching over JonBenet? This is completely irrelevant info.
JMPO, but these "two gentlemen" allegedly "watching over your daughter" are no one else than Patsy and John Ramsey, and in writing the ransom note, gave themselves away by using 'genteel' Southern words like 'gentlemen' in a context in which it was not appropriate.
And they were not 'watching over' their daughter JonBenet who was alive, but tragically, they were 'watching over' the dead body of JB for whose death they were responsible, until the body would be discovered.
 
Rashomon - totally off topic, but I wanted to applaud your English! It is AMAZING - good for you!! I am not fluent in any other language, but I am going to make darn sure my children are.

YAY for you!
 
rashomon said:
Excellent points, ellen!
Re 'bring' and 'take': My native language is German, and German doesn't make the distinction between 'bring' and 'take'. And I remember from my English language courses that we are to use 'take' when it means in a direction away from the speaker. Ex: "I'll take the letter to the post office"/"Please remember to take the letter to the post office."
Whereas we are to use 'bring' when it means in a direction toward the speaker. Ex: "Please remember to bring me those cookies."/"Have you brought the letter with you?"

And yes indeed, the writer(s) of the ransom note obviously did not have the perspective of a kidnapper because in that case they would have said "please remember to take an adequate size attache to the bank."
So he/she/they did not have the perspective of a kidnapper because there was no kidnapper - a very convincing conclusion.
Remarkable also that the note starts off with "We are a group", and then then suddenly switches to "I". Wow! Should raise a thousand red flags too.
It seems like the panicky writer of the ransom note forgot what he/she had put on paper a few sentences before.

Excellent point too about using the word 'monitor' in that note in an inappropriate context. ITA!

Many, many clues point to that ransom note being a total bogus note, and a very poorly concocted bogus note.

But what beats everything in that note imo is the sentence "The two gentlemen watching over your daughter". Ever heard of a kidnapper calling anyone of their kind 'gentlemen'? LOL!
And some sentences later, the ransom note threatens that these 'gentlemen' will 'behead' JonBenet in case her parents don't follow the kidnapper's instructions? ROFL - this borders on the comical: 'gentlemen' suddenly switching into murderish action - priceless!
Somehing else strikes me as odd too: the ransom note specifically mentions "two gentlemen watching over your daughter". Why would a kidnapper/kidnappers mention the number of people watching over JonBenet? This is completely irrelevant info.
JMPO, but these "two gentlemen" allegedly "watching over your daughter" are no one else than Patsy and John Ramsey, and in writing the ransom note, gave themselves away by using 'genteel' Southern words like 'gentlemen' in a context in which it was not appropriate.
And they were not 'watching over' their daughter JonBenet who was alive, but tragically, they were 'watching over' the dead body of JB for whose death they were responsible, until the body would be discovered.
Click to expand...
Rash-
Good point on the word gentlemen. You'd almost think if she were alive, they would have said, the two gentlement who have her in their possession or who are watching her, not watching over her as if she were dead-good pick up Rashomon!!
Ellen
 
Brefie said:
Rashomon - totally off topic, but I wanted to applaud your English! It is AMAZING - good for you!! I am not fluent in any other language, but I am going to make darn sure my children are.

YAY for you!
Click to expand...
Rashomon

Brefie's right, good for you!!
Your English is excellent, I would never have known it wasn't your first language!
I always enjoy your posts btw and must thank you for the chuckle in your last one, you're right, the ransom note is bordering on comical.
I can't believe anyone would think that note was real and that it was really the work of a foreign faction.
 
I actually noticed this the other night when on the other thread about John's handwriting. I thought that the use of the word "bring" sounds like someone talking in the first person (correct term?). Talking accidentally about their own self.

Also, the use of the word "might" in the sentence about if they follow all the instructions, the kidnappers "might" arrange and earlier pick up. The use of the word might doesn't sound like something a foreign faction would use, but someone from the South.
 
Voice of Reason said:
Also, the word choice sounds southern to me. I have never "advised" anyone "to be rested." I say things like "get a good night's sleep" or "get some sleep." I don't think I ever use the word "rested" come to think of it.
Click to expand...

I agree, VOR. We Southerners use the word "rested" very often. Even this morning already, my spouse asked if I felt "rested".
 
IMO the numerous absurdities in the fake ransom note can be better understood if you can picture two highly intelligent 10-year-old boys, raised properly with manners, desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from themselves, and perhaps a somewhat older accomplice.

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
IMO the numerous absurdities in the fake ransom note can be better understood if you can picture two highly intelligent 10-year-old boys, raised properly with manners, desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from themselves, and perhaps a somewhat older accomplice.

BlueCrab
Click to expand...
Or could it had been one or two intelligent adults who were intoxicated from a christmas party desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from oneself or themselves?
 
PalmettoSprings said:
Or could it had been one or two intelligent adults who were intoxicated from a christmas party desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from oneself or themselves?
Click to expand...


PalmettoSprings,

Possibly, but to me the note with all of its threats and movie adages has male juvenile written all over it. And in the 1998 interviews even John Ramsey said:

"The ransom note seemed childish, in terms of a young person."

BlueCrab
 
BlueCrab said:
PalmettoSprings,

Possibly, but to me the note with all of its threats and movie adages has male juvenile written all over it. And in the 1998 interviews even John Ramsey said:

"The ransom note seemed childish, in terms of a young person."

BlueCrab
Click to expand...
'even JR said'

Is JR a linguistics expert? I thought he was a CEO? What do actual linguistic experts say about the RN anyway?
 
BlueCrab said:
IMO the numerous absurdities in the fake ransom note can be better understood if you can picture two highly intelligent 10-year-old boys, raised properly with manners, desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from themselves, and perhaps a somewhat older accomplice.

BlueCrab
Click to expand...

BlueCrab,

Can you picture two highly intelligent 10 year old boys,one who is a relative,with no known animosity towards the deceased,being involved in this:

Quote from BlueCrab on another thread:
"If I am correct about the double loop holding each of JonBenet's ankles, then it surely means she was obscenely posed after death with her legs suspended in the air for maximum shock value; and the stick was likely inserted into the vagina and left there to further heap humiliation on the all-American white, privileged, beautiful, high profile child beauty queen. If so, the murder is a political message with envy and retribution written all over it."

After all that,they sit down and write a bogus ransom note? I would think the 10 year old relative would have been a basket case.
 
BlueCrab said:
PalmettoSprings,

Possibly, but to me the note with all of its threats and movie adages has male juvenile written all over it. BlueCrab
Click to expand...
BlueCrab,

Those were my thoughts when I read the RN for the first time a month ago.

When this crime happened ten years ago I could not stomach reading or hearing anything in reference to it. My youngest is Jonbent's age and her birth date is August 26, 1990. This was way too stressful for a mother of four young daughters to read at the time.

I hope, I wont be a nuisance to anyone with my posting if I write something that has already been posted... I have spent many hours reading everything on this site to become an informed. This case is on my mind so much, and I just cant seem to be able to set it on a shelf.

I have a question about the garrot knot. Is that a common knot or is it taught in scouts? When would one have a need to tie a garrot knot?

PalmettoSprings
 
BlueCrab said:
IMO the numerous absurdities in the fake ransom note can be better understood if you can picture two highly intelligent 10-year-old boys, raised properly with manners, desperately collaborating in writing a note to cast suspicion away from themselves, and perhaps a somewhat older accomplice.

BlueCrab
Click to expand...
'...highly intelligent...' and child murder are mutually opposing concepts. Child murder in a capital murder state, or anywhere else, is so fraught with risk that it seems more driven by 'uncontrollable urges,' and less by 'intelligent collaboration.'

This is just another in a long list of reasons why kids didn't murder JBR.

"You're not the only fat cat around so dont think that killing will be difficult."

These words come from none other than an adult, and an adult sociopath. No doubt about it.
 
capps said:
BlueCrab,

Can you picture two highly intelligent 10 year old boys,one who is a relative,with no known animosity towards the deceased,being involved in this:
Click to expand...


capps,

No one can tell what kids, especially boys, might get into next.

I realize it's hard to conceive, but I'm convinced that note was written by a child. There's just too many unnecessary threats and trite sayings borrowed from action movies in it for it to have been written by an adult. My guess is that a male of about 14-years-old, or an exceptionally bright younger boy, contributed to the text of the ransom note. The neighborhood around the Ramsey house, incidentally, was teeming with boys, most of them older than Burke. And they almost daily played games with JonBenet and Burke in the Ramsey's "open-house" for kids.

BlueCrab
 
PalmettoSprings said:
BlueCrab,

I have a question about the garrot knot. Is that a common knot or is it taught in scouts? When would one have a need to tie a garrot knot?

PalmettoSprings
Click to expand...


PalmettoSprings,

Even though the ligature device tied around JonBenet's neck killed her, contrary to popular belief it was not a garrote. IMO it was a breath control device used in erotic asphyxiation -- a dangerous masturbation technique the FBI estimates accidentally kills about 1,000 Americans each year. The device was eventually used by JonBenet's killer as a garrote when he pulled it extremely tight, but that is not what it was designed for.

Rope garrotes are designed as killing devices and must have two handles on them, one on each end, so the killer can sneak up on the victim from behind and strangle him. The device on JonBenet had just one handle on one end and a ligature (similar to a hangman's noose) on the opposite end. The ligature originally likely had a loose-fitting slip knot on it to form the loop around JonBenet's neck, which is lightly tightened to conduct the breath control technique, and then purposely released so as not to strangle her -- but when things turned violent the slip knot was pulled very tight, burying the cord deep into JonBenet's neck.

BlueCrab
 
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