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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #4

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    NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #4

    Today, 02:44 PM
    Peabody Peabody is offline
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    Just a Reminder to watch 20/20 Fri March 17 @ 10 PM EST
    Just a reminder to mark your calendars to watch the ABC News 20/20 Special featuring missing college coeds, Maura Murray and Brooke Wilburger, tomorrow, Friday, March 17th at 10 PM EST

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    Bring Maura Home!
    www.MauraMurray.com
    www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html




    Read about Maura on Websleuths:

    She has three threads: one each under Missing Persons Info and Support, Missing but not Forgotten, and Missing/Located Forum Discussion.

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    I was wondering if anybody thinks that there will be some questions answered on 20/20. Or, just what questions would you like to see answered from this show,(accept where Maura is)? I think it is important to keep this thread going.

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    Arrow Reminder RE 20/20 TONIGHT:

    Quote Originally Posted by nnglas
    I was wondering if anybody thinks that there will be some questions answered on 20/20. Or, just what questions would you like to see answered from this show,(accept where Maura is)? I think it is important to keep this thread going.
    Another reminder to mark your calendars to watch the ABC News 20/20 Special TONIGHT, Friday March 17th at 10 PM EST.

    The show will feature missing college coeds, Maura Murray and Brooke Wilburger.


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    I watched the 20/20 report and the biggest things...

    that struck me were:

    1. That LE from the beginning believed(and STILL believes) that Maura went missing voluntarily

    2. That the Murray and Rausch families have done the majority of the "discovery" in Maura's case-and that if not for their efforts Maura's case would simply be another file in the NH LE database languishing for lack of REAL interest!

    3. That LE is getting to "have their cake and eat it too"-because they are treating her case a "runaway/voluntarily missing person" they don't have to expend much in the way of investigative resources-but yet-LE is being allowed to NOT divulge any info to the family that MIGHT assist them in learning Maura's fate!

    Watching the program-a radical thought came to me-what would happen if Fred Murray requested the courts declare Maura "legally deceased"? In such a circumstance, would LE be FORCED to divulge any info they have to the contrary?(And I am not saying this to be mean or to cause the Murray and Rausch families any more pain-but since LE and the court have, to date, been unwilling to share info with the families, this may be ONLY way to get the info out in the open!)

    My fervent hope is that tonite's show will generate renewed interest in Maura's case-and possible bring some good, solid info that may aid in answering the question


    WHERE IS MAURA????

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    I just watched 20/20, and I had never before read anything about Maura's disappearance.
    It is positively baffling!

    A few things I don't quite understand:
    1. If she did go missing voluntarily, HOW could she possibly have not
    been found in 2 years? Someone would have to have seen her.
    She had very little money, no car and no resources.
    WHERE could she be?

    2. It seems HIGHLY unlikely that "foul play" could have occurred in the
    "10 minutes" time that it took the police to arrive.


    3. I don't understand why she would have taken off without telling anyone and driven hundreds of miles from home. She was a smart, together girl.
    My niece is 24, and she would never do that. Neither would I.
    Meaning, Maura, obviously had some problems that no one knew about...
    maybe her boyfriend did, but he isn't talking.

    So many unanswered questions.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatetrekker44
    that struck me were:

    1. That LE from the beginning believed(and STILL believes) that Maura went missing voluntarily

    2. That the Murray and Rausch families have done the majority of the "discovery" in Maura's case-and that if not for their efforts Maura's case would simply be another file in the NH LE database languishing for lack of REAL interest!

    3. That LE is getting to "have their cake and eat it too"-because they are treating her case a "runaway/voluntarily missing person" they don't have to expend much in the way of investigative resources-but yet-LE is being allowed to NOT divulge any info to the family that MIGHT assist them in learning Maura's fate!

    Watching the program-a radical thought came to me-what would happen if Fred Murray requested the courts declare Maura "legally deceased"? In such a circumstance, would LE be FORCED to divulge any info they have to the contrary?(And I am not saying this to be mean or to cause the Murray and Rausch families any more pain-but since LE and the court have, to date, been unwilling to share info with the families, this may be ONLY way to get the info out in the open!)

    My fervent hope is that tonite's show will generate renewed interest in Maura's case-and possible bring some good, solid info that may aid in answering the question


    WHERE IS MAURA????
    My husband and I had the same response you did regarding law enforcement's attitude about the case.

    It is just absurd that they have officially and repeatedly stated that Maura is an adult that left of her own free will, that no foul play was involved and they do not consider her to be "missing"....Yet they refuse to share what information they do have that has led to this conclusion.

    That is the very least they could do for the family at this point. I feel that if they truly believe Maura has begun a new life some where, a detective should be put on the case full time to find her.

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    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=49328

    Serial killer behind 'disappearing' women?
    Frustrated parents of 2 girls suspect cases connected, killer on the loose

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    NHSP and Lt Scarinza

    I had a slightly different take on the comments by NH detective John Scarinza who was the only LE person directly involved in Maura's case to be quoted on 20/20 last night.

    He talked about thousands of hours being spent on the case--and yes there were considerable belated search efforts made as we know.

    And yes it appears from the context that he still believes she both left UMA voluntarily and went missing voluntarily.

    However he was not asked directly what he thinks about Maura's fate today. He did at least make some kind of lukewarm sympathetic statement about the frustration and concerns of Maura's family and friends.

    Aside from the lack of amity between police and the family that was displayed as quickly as eight or nine days after Maura went missing, the clearest failure by police (compare to Brooke Wilberger) was the two day delay to do any real searching at the Swiftwater scene and to send immediate notices to nearby towns about a missing girl.

    This failure has to be attributed to the Haverhill local police that night and then next day to NHSP. There was a state trooper named Monahan on the scene as well sometime after 8pm on 2/9/04, but it is my impression he did not do any cursory searching for Maura as did Haverhill officer Cecil Smith and the busdriver Butch Atwood.

    I believe we would know more if a search dog had been brought to the scene next morning on Tuesday and given items from her clothes and bags--her running shoes?--for scent instead of the little used little worn new gloves.

    There is much more detail on the Maura site about the failures of police in this case for those who are interested, especially officer Smith not admitting on Wednesday night to family that he knew a young girl had been driving the abandoned car (because Atwood had told him and then they searched). He claimed all he knew after running the MA license plate was that the car was registered to and owned by Fred Murray and that he assumed the driver (Fred?) had got a ride from someone. And Fred Murray's house was not called by police about the car until after 4pm on Tuesday nearly 24 hours later.

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    I just wanted to let the family know my thoughts. I think 20/20 did an outstanding presentation of the story. I can see even from my little corner of the world that people are very interested in the story. The hits to the blog from Google and other searches for Maura are quite high. I even received a sympathetic email from a viewer.

    I have met Sharon (and Fred) previously when we were in NYC to film Montel. Sharon looked lovely as ever, but the pain in her eyes was evident. I know Fred is critized by some for his actions, but he is justified. I know full well about LE inaction and what that can mean to a case like this.

    For Maura and Jason, wherever you are. You are loved and missed.

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    I really thought that 20/20 did I nice job.


    I personally do not understand the critisism of parents in these cases.
    I understand that many are non confrontational and perhaps would not approach authority figures in such a way .. IMO to the detriment of the missing loved one.
    I would think that many would react they very same way as Fred has. I know I would.

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    The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...

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    really interesting

    I watched 20/20 last night also. It appeared to me that Maura left voluntarily to go to New Hampshire because she had e-mailed her professors there was a death in the family and that she was leaving. Her dorm room had been packed up. I think an unforseen accident happened and she was accosted by a stranger. Why did she tell the bus driver she had called AAA when her cell phone wouldn't work in the area? And what is in the documents that the police have that they won't show Maura's father? The police are just adding to the mystery.

    What is interesting is that Maura left West Point before finishing and left the nursing program at U of Mass before finishing it also. Probably doesn't mean anything, just a fleeting observation.

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    Just to clarify... if I remember right, the show last night on 20/20 stated that not only did the bus driver call 911 when he got home, but the house directly across from where Maura crash ALSO called 911.

    So, IMO, the bus driver wasn't trying to cover up any nefarious plot... he was trying to help a stranded young lady by getting her help that she needed because HE knew that cell service wasn't available in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by cynpat2000
    The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cynpat2000
    The thing that didnt make sense to me is maura telling the bus driver she called AAA then them saying cell phones dont work out there and he calls the police for what???probably to justify if anyone seen him why he was around that area in the first place to throw people off .I feel like they should be looking at the guy driving the bus a LOT more closely.also if she voluntarilly left,she wouldnt have crashed her transportation on the road and what walked???highly unlikely unless someone was waiting for her which again seems unlikely I still think the bus driver may know more I mean if I saw a lady on the road and she said she called AAA and seemes O>K I would not call the police to her..just my opinion...
    Here is a quote from a previous thread:
    Maura had been recruited by many schools to run track and cross country. She competed in Track and Cross Country for both West Point and UMass Amherst until the fall of 2003. Weather was not a consideration for Maura and her love of running. She ran no less than 5-6 miles each day. She was dedicated to daily running in spite of hot or cold temps, rain or snow. Maura routinely ran 5 kilometers in just over 18minutes, and still holds competitive both Track and Cross Country records. Tom Zamagni, one of her soccer and basketball coaches when she was in elementary school,l said that when Maura Murray broke the girl's two-mile track record at Whitman-Hanson High School, she did so by 40 seconds. The record still stands.

    So, she probably didn't "walk" away from the scene.

    They (20/20) didn't mention anything about the phone call Lt Rausch received from Maura 2 days after she went missing or that she made a big withdraw from her bank account the day she went missing or about the construction worker that saw her an hour or so after the accident running down the road.

    Also, the comment made by cynpat about the SBD is probably the main reason people don't come forward with information. He was just trying to help and all of a sudden people look at him as a POI.

    Cynpat, your absolutely right that it doesn't make sense Maura telling the SBD that she had called AAA when she had not.......why would Maura not want him to call for help???

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    If Maura was running away and didn't want to be found, it is logical that she did not want the bus driver to get help for her.
    I have NO idea how she was going to get help for herself to fix her car, so you can add that to one of the dozens of unanswered questions.

    Also, *why* didn't 20/20 report the phone call to Lt. Rausch?

    What did Maura say in that phone call?

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    What's the deal with THIS??

    I just read the following quote:
    " According to Murray's family, specially trained dogs used in the search followed her scent from her car to the beginning of bus driver Atwood's driveway, about 100 yards away, before losing it. "

    Obviously, she either accepted a ride from a stranger, or she was abducted by the bus driver. It IS rather odd that the dogs lost her scent at his driveway.

    Thoughts anyone??

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    replies for Czechmate and Tristan

    Czechmate,

    you are offering what I have called, I believe correctly, the track star theory of Maura's leaving the Swiftwater crash scene.

    As recently as a few weeks ago there was a post by Sharon on mauramurray.com, Lt R's Mother who appeared on 20/20, describing how Maura would get up early and take off for long runs without leaving any note or telling anyone where she was going and would then say she could outrun anyone who tried to catch her.

    As the PI said the temp that night was 30 or higher (not 10-12), it was bright moonlight, Maura was wearing light sole sport shoes (not her track shoes still in the bags in the car), and if she was not injured from the airbag having deployed, many people including her Dad believed from the get-go that she could gone a long distance on foot from the scene even as long as the sixteen or seventeen miles to Lincoln on 112 east let alone back to Wells River on 112 west.

    Tristan,

    the last person to see Maura, I believe, was the construction worker who was belatedly contacted by police (he had talked to neighbors, he did not himself go to police, he had claimed no knowledge of Maura's disappearance on Feb 14 and Feb 19 when interviewed--see Case Info on the Maura site) in late April of 2004 giving a story of a youngster "hurrying...at a fast clip about four miles east on 112 near its merge split with 116 seeing around 8.15 as he returned from his work site in Franconia.

    This guy lived right across the street from Atwood and still does to my knowledge while the Atwoods have moved to Florida.

    There has been a great deal of abuse of Atwood on the Maura site. I believe he was a totally honest and helpful passerby whose offer of help would have been accepted by Maura under normal circumstances but it is clear she wanted to keep going that night and to avoid police.

    Finally, the search dog did not arrive till 36 hours later and was only given a little worn glove for scent. See post by Peabody many miles back on this site, but the point is that if the dog had been there the next morning with one of her running shoes for scent, the result would likely have been more useful.

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    [QUOTE=hydemi]Czechmate,

    you are offering what I have called, I believe correctly, the track star theory of Maura's leaving the Swiftwater crash scene.

    As recently as a few weeks ago there was a post by Sharon on mauramurray.com, Lt R's Mother who appeared on 20/20, describing how Maura would get up early and take off for long runs without leaving any note or telling anyone where she was going and would then say she could outrun anyone who tried to catch her.

    As the PI said the temp that night was 30 or higher (not 10-12), it was bright moonlight, Maura was wearing light sole sport shoes (not her track shoes still in the bags in the car), and if she was not injured from the airbag having deployed, many people including her Dad believed from the get-go that she could gone a long distance on foot from the scene even as long as the sixteen or seventeen miles to Lincoln on 112 east let alone back to Wells River on 112 west.

    QUOTE]

    I'm not aware of the "track star theory". I was simply giving cynpat a stated fact (Maura being able to run long distances in any temps) of how she "could have" left the scene.

    Wasn't Maura's backpack missing?? I'm sure someone who runs as much as her has more than 1 pair of running shoes.

    As for the phone call to Lt Rausch days later, I have a hard time understanding why, if she were in danger, use a calling card. Why not call 911??? Why call your boyfriend who is miles and miles away that can't help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amraann
    I really thought that 20/20 did I nice job.


    I personally do not understand the critisism of parents in these cases.
    I understand that many are non confrontational and perhaps would not approach authority figures in such a way .. IMO to the detriment of the missing loved one.
    I would think that many would react they very same way as Fred has. I know I would.
    I would too. I would be flipping out, and nobody would stop me. I would be persistant and angry that the police would not let me see what they have. Everyone reacts different, I can only say what I would do and it would not be pretty.

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    Let me ask just a few questions to those of you who have been follwing this case from day one, I have not.
    1st Could Maura have hit her head and had some type of amnesia?
    2nd Could she have wondered off on her own and got lost in the woods to never be found? That has happened.......
    I know its possible that somebody could have snatched her as well, we see that all too much. I am just brainstorming here, I know by all accounts Mauras family said she would have never ran off or done anything of that sorts, but it is very weird that she packed up and told her teacher there was a death. Was someone maybe stalking Maura?

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    No one answered my question about the phone call.
    WHAT was said in that phone call a few days after th accident?

    Also, how well was Atwood investigated? I'm not saying he took her, only that every possibilty should be looked into. People don't just "disappear."
    They are always somewhere....we just don't know where.

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    info

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan
    No one answered my question about the phone call.
    WHAT was said in that phone call a few days after th accident?

    Also, how well was Atwood investigated? I'm not saying he took her, only that every possibilty should be looked into. People don't just "disappear."
    They are always somewhere....we just don't know where.
    There was more than one accident and more than one phone call but in the call after the second accident when Maura disappeared no words were spoken (only some sounds were heard for a few seconds) and there is some doubt and dispute whether that call was even from Maura or not.
    You can find the answers to those and other questions in news links. Starting at post # 121 in part 2 maura murray merged thread I posted some posts that happen to also contain links to news stories that should answer your questions.

    Note:Although most of the links in the posts work, one or two do not because so much time has gone by since the posts were made and web content has been moved or deleted in some cases.
    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...3&page=4&pp=40

    Also interested readers might want to read the thread at
    http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-19255

    Also the mauramurray website has some news links at
    http://mauramurray.com/news.html

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    Thanks SO much for the links.

    One last question (forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere),
    Does anyone know eactly WHAT transpired in the phone call that Maura received from one of her sisters a few days before she left??

    Apparently, she was very upset as a result of that call, and I have not seen this explained anywhere?

    Anyone?

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    only kathleen knows for sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan
    Thanks SO much for the links.

    One last question (forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere),
    Does anyone know eactly WHAT transpired in the phone call that Maura received from one of her sisters a few days before she left??

    Apparently, she was very upset as a result of that call, and I have not seen this explained anywhere?

    Anyone?
    Allegedly, according to news reports quoting her, they just spoke of Kathleen's boyfriend troubles and other sister stuff but nothing very upsetting. But there is also some dispute about that phone call. Cell phone records show a call from Maura to Kathleen at about 10 pm but witnesses allegedly reported that Maura's upsetting call took place at about 1 am. If that call was made from a land line, as opposed to a cell phone, it would not show up on the home phone records or on Maura's cell phone records and there was such a land phoneline at her workplace even if it was against the rules to use it for personal use.

    Also I do not now if Kathleen was living alone at the time (although someone said he was not living with her mother- the parents were divorced) or if someone living with her, or even a visitor, might have been there to take a call at 1 am and Kathleen has never admitted to speaking with Maura at the 1 am time.

    So it seems there is controversy and mystery about many such points in this case.

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    more replies for Tristan, Czechmate, Michelle

    Doc's links are good and very helpful. Again on the Maura site there is a CaseInfo section on the "forum" button with a timeline and notes from Sharon on such puzzlers as the call to Lt Rausch's cellphone on Wed am 2/11/04.

    There is a lot of ground to cover if you want to be up on this story.

    The actual prepaid calling card number(720-587-9978) was recently posted on the Maura site by the moderator. It is an ATT routing number through a switching station in Colorado and without the other card info & pin number a call is untraceable.

    The sobbing & sniffling (no words) on the call were categorically identified by the Rausches as being Maura--see especially the 2/17/04 interview of Lt Rausch on CNN where he is "positive" the caller was Maura.

    My "track star" theory of Maura's getting away from the crash site in NH is a minority view and controversial on the Maura site where most of the posters believe she was abducted and harmed, probably by someone local, and that she was grabbed right then and there after 7.30pm on 2/9/04.

    The "snatch" theory ignores or denies the sighting by the construction worker and explains the phone call on Wed am as some kind of call for help.

    I agree--why not make a 911 call? And anyone who has used a prepaid card knows that it takes focus and time to input all the numbers, hard to imagine doing easily if you are being held captive.

    Maura presumably left the scene wearing a small black backpack. Her two pairs of running shoes were left in her bags in the car, but her lightweight footwear was probably quite adequate for walking or jogging quickly.

    Michelle's questions have been asked quite often. The airbag had deployed in the 96 Saturn and many on the Maura site believe she was injured ( I don't).
    She had the presence of mind to brush off Atwood the bus driver, to lock her car, to grab her small pack, to remove (it is probable) liquor bottles from the car, and to vanish within the few minutes between Atwood's talking to her and the local police arriving at 7.46pm.

    There has been no report or evidence of any stalker.

    As I said above most of the posters on the Maura site believe or argue that she was grabbed by a predator, while many if not all on this site are more willing to opine that she appears to have done everything quite deliberately on her own--even though her second car accident in two days had to disrupt whatever plans she may have had.

    Lastly I agree with the family members who assert that the Maura they knew would never have disappeared without contacting loved ones--UNLESS in my view there was something terribly troubling and upsetting Maura which caused her to leave UMA in the first place, which she had not revealed to anyone, and which made her fear the arrival of police and decide to keep going away from the NH accident scene.

    All we know is that she was hysterically upset Thursday night 2/5/04 being escorted back to her dorm by KMayotte her supervisor on campus security; she was again hysterical and upset talking to her boyfriend Lt Rausch on Sun am calling him at 4.49am (yes! see Case Info again on Maura site) after her accident with her Dad's car and giving him the strong impression that something else more serious was wrong; and calling him again (I believe) on Wed am 2/11 but only sobbing and sniffling evidently in distress but not leaving a message or confiding anything to her closest confidante.

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