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  1. #1

    Was Judas a Traitor?...

    This is a fascinating discovery...what do you all think?
    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/189/story_18925_1.html

  2. #2
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    Interesting read.

    I read a book once that discussed this theory. That in order for the prophecy to come true Judas had to this, that it was foretold and nothing could change it and that Jesus knew this and was saddened but resigned. That Jesus knew and was self fulfilling the prophecies.

    I just didn't know they were claiming this as brand new information. There is a book called The Passover Plot from 1965 that discusses this theory and a movie with the same name from 1979.

    The book I speak of in my first paragraph is a series of books by a woman named Marjorie Holmes, the one that deals with this topic is called Three From Galilee. From the 70's.

    Now I'm Jewish, not Christian and found them great reading if for nothing else but to find out what others believe and what Israel was like back then and political motives etc.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BhamMama
    Interesting read.

    I read a book once that discussed this theory. That in order for the prophecy to come true Judas had to this, that it was foretold and nothing could change it and that Jesus knew this and was saddened but resigned. That Jesus knew and was self fulfilling the prophecies.

    I just didn't know they were claiming this as brand new information. There is a book called The Passover Plot from 1965 that discusses this theory and a movie with the same name from 1979.

    The book I speak of in my first paragraph is a series of books by a woman named Marjorie Holmes, the one that deals with this topic is called Three From Galilee. From the 70's.

    Now I'm Jewish, not Christian and found them great reading if for nothing else but to find out what others believe and what Israel was like back then and political motives etc.
    Its new to me to have the National Geographic Society authenticate the text and the story on Public Television News.

    I have read Elaine Pagels work on the Gnostic Gospels. She is a historian.
    Pagels earned an M.A. from Stanford University and Ph.D. “with distinction” from Harvard. She possesses a working command of Greek, Latin, German, Hebrew, French, Italian and Coptic. She also wrote " Beyond Belief, The Secret Gospel of Thomas" and "The Origin of Satan."

    Its been awhile since I read the the Gnostic Gospels but I seem to remember that Mary Magdalene had a more prominent role, perhaps also wrote her own gospel.

    The Gnostic Gospels, is an analysis of 52 early Christian manuscripts that were unearthed in Egypt. Known collectively as the Nag Hammadi Library, the manuscripts show the pluralistic nature of the early church and the role of women in the developing Christian movement. As the early church moved toward becoming an orthodox body with a canon, rites and clergy, the Nag Hammadi manuscripts were suppressed and deemed heretical.

    Very interesting discussion.
    http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...res_awe_wrath/

  4. #4
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    IrishMist is offline You can't control the wind - but you can adjust your sails
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    Interesting article, thanks for providing the link!

  5. #5
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    As a Christian I feel as if I need to respond. The Gospel of Judas was written at least 100 years after Jesus's death and resurrection. In the New Testament epistles, Paul often warned the havoc that false teachers including (or primarily) the gnostics caused in the 1st century church. This book was written in the 2nd century and continued along the lines of false teachers. Christians should not give any creedance to it, nor be threatened by the heightness of publicity the book is receiving.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious J
    As a Christian I feel as if I need to respond. The Gospel of Judas was written at least 100 years after Jesus's death and resurrection. In the New Testament epistles, Paul often warned the havoc that false teachers including (or primarily) the gnostics caused in the 1st century church. This book was written in the 2nd century and continued along the lines of false teachers. Christians should not give any creedance to it, nor be threatened by the heightness of publicity the book is receiving.
    I believe we should all keep an open mind. It is a fact that the early church, after the establishment of Popes did diminish the role of women in the establishment of Christianity and set as fact certain criteria and diminish or eliminate from older "bibles" writings of biblical historical significance. IMO, this is still going on today as we deny what we don't want to see as "false" or not relevent.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious J
    As a Christian I feel as if I need to respond. The Gospel of Judas was written at least 100 years after Jesus's death and resurrection. In the New Testament epistles, Paul often warned the havoc that false teachers including (or primarily) the gnostics caused in the 1st century church. This book was written in the 2nd century and continued along the lines of false teachers. Christians should not give any creedance to it, nor be threatened by the heightness of publicity the book is receiving.
    as a non-christian, i feel i should post, as well. this article sent me to 'your' bible, to see both sides of the story, as i found it interesting. i have always believed that your bible stories must have at least some basis in fact.

    i have always found the betrayal of judas to be an act of desperation, morally reprehensible even to judas himself. whether he acted as he did out of greed or loyalty, he was an interesting character. whether he destroyed himself or not, he must have been a tortured man.

    other parts of your bible were written many years after the death of jesus, and that doesnt make them lies.

    christians should read for themselves, and decide for themselves, just as we all should, if we are interested. many stories have been written that disagree with the modern bible. it has been translated, amended and abridged through over 2000 years. it is still a wonderful book.

    there is nothing about this that 'threatens' anyone. it is just possible that, like myself, some people will find that old bible stashed on a shelf, and read it. cant be a Bad Thing...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords
    Its new to me to have the National Geographic Society authenticate the text and the story on Public Television News.

    I have read Elaine Pagels work on the Gnostic Gospels. She is a historian.
    Pagels earned an M.A. from Stanford University and Ph.D. “with distinction” from Harvard. She possesses a working command of Greek, Latin, German, Hebrew, French, Italian and Coptic. She also wrote " Beyond Belief, The Secret Gospel of Thomas" and "The Origin of Satan."

    Its been awhile since I read the the Gnostic Gospels but I seem to remember that Mary Magdalene had a more prominent role, perhaps also wrote her own gospel.

    The Gnostic Gospels, is an analysis of 52 early Christian manuscripts that were unearthed in Egypt. Known collectively as the Nag Hammadi Library, the manuscripts show the pluralistic nature of the early church and the role of women in the developing Christian movement. As the early church moved toward becoming an orthodox body with a canon, rites and clergy, the Nag Hammadi manuscripts were suppressed and deemed heretical.

    Very interesting discussion.
    http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...res_awe_wrath/
    Thanks! Hadn't read about those. Great link!

  9. #9
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    The notion that Judas's role as betrayer was predetermined/pre-arranged has been part and parcel of Christian theological discussions for centuries, the rather compelling argument being that Jesus required martyrdom to attain power. In many ways, Judas's role was as thankless and as cruel as that of Job. It was also part of the mythology that Judas Iscariot later hung himself from a thorn tree overlooking the city.

  10. #10
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    so, what's the conclusion here?

    Judas Iscariot was history's first known Republican?...




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