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  1. #1
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    What makes a good friend go away?

    I found myself wondering this morning about what makes a good friend leave you after your daughter is murdered.
    I am in the midst of great signs of memory rust on this case, so feel free to jump in here with sources etc.

    I have always felt that FW knew something about JonBenets murder that has yet to be revealed by him, at least publicly. Question might be 'did he ever reveal something of that nature to the BPD or?

    The reason for the gut feeling of mine was the quick dissolution of what appeared to have been a great friendship and close relationship with the Ramsey family.

    I recall that FW went to JonBenets funeral. But someone with greater record keeping of facts on this case, please tell us all where and what visible signs began the quick unraveling of this prior closerthanthisfriendship?

    I cannot remember for the life of me what the strange behavior of FW at the funeral was purportedly about?

    I would think that close friends would be even closer than before in a horrible murder of their good friends daughter, do you think er whut?

    It would appear that FW has sat down and been silent for a long time now, does anyone know differently? Side issue is FW's mom still alive, dead by old age er suffering from the same illness ?, as purported on Dec 23, 1996?

    Insert shaking head here, hmmm.


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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    I found myself wondering this morning about what makes a good friend leave you after your daughter is murdered.
    I am in the midst of great signs of memory rust on this case, so feel free to jump in here with sources etc.

    I have always felt that FW knew something about JonBenets murder that has yet to be revealed by him, at least publicly. Question might be 'did he ever reveal something of that nature to the BPD or?

    The reason for the gut feeling of mine was the quick dissolution of what appeared to have been a great friendship and close relationship with the Ramsey family.

    I recall that FW went to JonBenets funeral. But someone with greater record keeping of facts on this case, please tell us all where and what visible signs began the quick unraveling of this prior closerthanthisfriendship?

    I cannot remember for the life of me what the strange behavior of FW at the funeral was purportedly about?

    I would think that close friends would be even closer than before in a horrible murder of their good friends daughter, do you think er whut?

    It would appear that FW has sat down and been silent for a long time now, does anyone know differently? Side issue is FW's mom still alive, dead by old age er suffering from the same illness ?, as purported on Dec 23, 1996?

    Insert shaking head here, hmmm.


    .
    Yes Camper, I think FW knows a lot about JonBenet's murder but he is not going to go public about it because IMO it would implicate himself in things he would rather people did not know anything about.

    One of the extremely suspicious things he did on day 1 was to take copius notes all day long. What a strange thing to do? Did he ever tell anyone what the note-taking was for? Or did he ever show the notes to anyone? I think the notes were for his personal use so that he could fabricate a good story to explain everything surrounding the murder.

    Also on day 1 he was always going down to the basement. And he opened the door to the wine cellar and says he didn't see the body! I don't believe that for one moment. I think he went down to the basement specifically to check that the body was in fact, in the wine cellar and also that there hadn't been anything left behind in the basement that would make it obvious that there had been sexual abuse practices taking place the night before.

    Then as soon as the body had been found he raced upstairs to the telephone, dialled a number and then immediately hung up and started yelling for someone else! to call an ambulance. I think he panicked because the perpetrators had not meant for the body to be found. I think he was the mastermind behind the coverup and he had alerted his contact at the BPD very early in the morning that if they got a certain call about a kidnapping they were not to investigate it too thoroughly, which up until the body was found was exactly what did happen. I think that he was calling this contact again after the body was found to tell him that something had gone wrong, but then hung up when he realised that people might overhear what he was saying. So then he called for someone else to call an ambulance and went straight back down to the wine cellar presumably to check it out again for anything that might incriminate the pedophiles.

    Then a few days later he had the big fight with John because John had hired his own investigators which FW obviously didn't like because FW wanted only the BPD to investigate the murder because he knew that they would come up with findings that would not expose a certain little pedophile group.

    Then when the DA's office took over the investigation and were sympathetic to the Ramseys, he started agitating for the governor to appoint a special prosecutor, presumably because he didn't like the direction the investigation was heading, ie away from the Ramseys. I imagine he was petrified as to what the DA's office might turn up.

  3. #3
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    Hmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    Yes Camper, I think FW knows a lot about JonBenet's murder but he is not going to go public about it because IMO it would implicate himself in things he would rather people did not know anything about.

    One of the extremely suspicious things he did on day 1 was to take copius notes all day long. What a strange thing to do? Did he ever tell anyone what the note-taking was for? Or did he ever show the notes to anyone? I think the notes were for his personal use so that he could fabricate a good story to explain everything surrounding the murder.

    Also on day 1 he was always going down to the basement. And he opened the door to the wine cellar and says he didn't see the body! I don't believe that for one moment. I think he went down to the basement specifically to check that the body was in fact, in the wine cellar and also that there hadn't been anything left behind in the basement that would make it obvious that there had been sexual abuse practices taking place the night before.

    Then as soon as the body had been found he raced upstairs to the telephone, dialled a number and then immediately hung up and started yelling for someone else! to call an ambulance. I think he panicked because the perpetrators had not meant for the body to be found. I think he was the mastermind behind the coverup and he had alerted his contact at the BPD very early in the morning that if they got a certain call about a kidnapping they were not to investigate it too thoroughly, which up until the body was found was exactly what did happen. I think that he was calling this contact again after the body was found to tell him that something had gone wrong, but then hung up when he realised that people might overhear what he was saying. So then he called for someone else to call an ambulance and went straight back down to the wine cellar presumably to check it out again for anything that might incriminate the pedophiles.

    Then a few days later he had the big fight with John because John had hired his own investigators which FW obviously didn't like because FW wanted only the BPD to investigate the murder because he knew that they would come up with findings that would not expose a certain little pedophile group.

    Then when the DA's office took over the investigation and were sympathetic to the Ramseys, he started agitating for the governor to appoint a special prosecutor, presumably because he didn't like the direction the investigation was heading, ie away from the Ramseys. I imagine he was petrified as to what the DA's office might turn up.

    ---------->>>I am wondering about the redpart of your post, WHO would have been involved in the 'certain little pedophile group'?

    I also seem to interpret your post as possibly having FW either knowing about the group, or being a part of the group. Which way are you thinking - a. that he knew about it, OR b. that he might have been a part of it?

    As I am posting now, I am sorta gettin' it, while re re reading your blue portion of your post. I am interpreting on the blue part just this minute, that he must have KNOWN about it.

    NOW the big question has to be WHO else was in the house, FW may know this as well, do you think?

    NOW then IF IF what we surmise is accurate, why would FW still maintain a silence, but broke the friendship apart?

    Perhaps there is still a mentality among men, that little girls are not all that important in the scheme of life, just perhaps merely a convenience. NOOOOOOOO, could not be that simple huh, er?

    NOW then recall if you will the story of the girl/woman from CA that exposed a pedophile ring that met at Christmas time, flying all over the country to meet at this one and that ones home to pursue their pruient sp? interests. She was wisked off and has never been seen nor heard of again.

    What an easy way to shut someone up, 'she is coo coo', oh, ok then, she IS coo coo, er, hmmm.

    Then there is the public relations man for the BPD, serving during the murder investigation. He then resigns/quits, goes on a trip to AMSTERDAM. BEFORE he has been there hardly a second or two, he is ACCIDENTALLY killed while trying to get in or out of his taxi, the taxi driver dashes off, while he is half in half out of the taxi, door knocks him over and he is DEAD. Taxi drivers do NOT GET TIPS for killing their passengers. ER do they?

    I found that to be extremely ODD.

    Access had an office in Amsterdam.

    I have even forgotten the PR guys name, but I have never forgotten the tale.

    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





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  4. #4
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    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    Camper:

    FW also had a argument with RW on the day of the funeral.
    He was a guest in his home so you have to wonder, why was he creating such a fuss ?

    FW has said he was upset over the behavior of the R's, they were not trying to help BPD with investigation. John accused FW as being a possible suspect early in the investigation and Patsy mentioned PW and LHP as possible suspects.
    Being accused of murdering a little girl would certainly kill a friendship . FW seems to want justice for jonbenet but he also wants his family cleared of suspicion as would anyone who was accused and innocent.
    The woman who made all the accusations of pedo ring was discredited.
    She was not credible. She refused to cooperate with authorities when push came to shove. Her " therapist " was a piece of work too !

  5. #5
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpar
    Camper:

    FW also had a argument with RW on the day of the funeral.
    He was a guest in his home so you have to wonder, why was he creating such a fuss ?

    FW has said he was upset over the behavior of the R's, they were not trying to help BPD with investigation. John accused FW as being a possible suspect early in the investigation and Patsy mentioned PW and LHP as possible suspects.
    Being accused of murdering a little girl would certainly kill a friendship . FW seems to want justice for jonbenet but he also wants his family cleared of suspicion as would anyone who was accused and innocent.
    The woman who made all the accusations of pedo ring was discredited.
    She was not credible. She refused to cooperate with authorities when push came to shove. Her " therapist " was a piece of work too !


    ---------->>>The 'woman' asked for protection and help. I don't think she received what she asked for. Her CA relatives convinced PD that she was a nut case. I don't think that all was what it appeared to be. IF IF it was the BPD that made that determination, then I would take that with a big piece of salt.


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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  6. #6
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    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    For what I remember she expected LE to put themselves out without one iota of proof from her that she wasnt a fruitloop or that what she had to say was credible or revelant . It was bizarre - simple things like how the therapist meet up with her to come to CO, how she left her home , where did her " captors " think she was, what did she tell her grandmother and other family members ,none of their questions were answered in any kind of a clear or concise manner. Convulted answers that didnt answer a thing , I have never read anything like it. She simply wasnt believable ! I wouldnt hire her therapist to treat my dog, her credentials couldnt be verified and were quite suspect as well. She claimed education and certification that isnt on record anywhere. HHMMMM
    There needed to be some explainin and neither the woman or the therapist
    seemed to be capable of doing that. There were stories that some other forumn people got conned out room and board for months and living expenses and money for this poor victim of sexual abuse ...... they never got any satisfactory answers either. IMO - Basically these two were con's but what they expected or what the pay off for them was who knows maybe attention - money- publicity who knows but they have since disappeared back into the hole they crawled out of.
    Granted LE isnt always competent but this wasnt their fault. They wanted assurances before sticking their neck out and didnt get them and neither did anyone else . Just some hazy on the detail stories about ring of Pedo's .....
    across the country meeting over holidays with ALL her relatives partcipating
    LOL

  7. #7
    No pedophile ring here...it's too farfetched.

    Fleet White did take notes the morning of the 26th. When asked by Detectives why Fleet was doing that, John said that Fleet was just trying to be helpful. Fleet was writing down what he felt needed to be done to get JonBenet back. Now this is according to John.

    The first time there was trouble with the Ramseys and Whites was when the families were on their way to Atlanta. John Fernie would not allow the Whites to ride in the Lockheed Corporate Jet because Fleet was "agitated".

    Fleet and Priscilla were asking the Ramseys why they hired lawyers. Priscilla told the Ramseys that she and Fleet did not hire lawyers...so why would they?

    This fallout had to have happened when "detectives" of Team Ramsey interviewed Fleet and Priscilla the morning of the 27th.

    In Atlanta Priscilla White confronted Patsy and told her she "knew something"...but Patsy brushed her off.

    The Fernies no longer talk to the Ramseys. Barbara Fernie was somewhat disturbed because she felt that she mourned more than Patsy did.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  8. #8
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec
    No pedophile ring here...it's too farfetched.

    Fleet White did take notes the morning of the 26th. When asked by Detectives why Fleet was doing that, John said that Fleet was just trying to be helpful. Fleet was writing down what he felt needed to be done to get JonBenet back. Now this is according to John.

    The first time there was trouble with the Ramseys and Whites was when the families were on their way to Atlanta. John Fernie would not allow the Whites to ride in the Lockheed Corporate Jet because Fleet was "agitated".

    Fleet and Priscilla were asking the Ramseys why they hired lawyers. Priscilla told the Ramseys that she and Fleet did not hire lawyers...so why would they?
    This fallout had to have happened when "detectives" of Team Ramsey interviewed Fleet and Priscilla the morning of the 27th.

    In Atlanta Priscilla White confronted Patsy and told her she "knew something"...but Patsy brushed her off.


    The Fernies no longer talk to the Ramseys. Barbara Fernie was somewhat disturbed because she felt that she mourned more than Patsy did.



    ------->>>Hello Toltec, my comment is on the red portion of your post. IF IF Priscilla KNEW something - but PR brushed her off. DID Priscilla tell the police the 'something' when they interviewed PW and FW, in your quoted post??

    The info in red, is something that I do not ever remember reading or hearing before. I would like to ask your source for the 'brush off' and the police interrogation. I don't think we have any transcripts for the police interrogation y ou speak of, do WE?


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    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  9. #9
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    Fleet White was probably the first person to realise that the wine-cellar crime-scene was staged.

    Given the enormity and seriousness of the situation, he had to go back and inspect the wine-cellar again.

    Possibly as a eureka moment, or did I not visit that room earlier, what is different about it?

    Either then or at a later date whilst discussing the details with Priscilla parts of an incomplete jigsaw fell into place.

    They then possibly both knew but could not prove what lay behind JonBenet's death.

    There is a potential tenuous link between Fleet White and JonBenet as she was discovered in the wine-cellar, remember Fleet White was there when this occurred!

    I would like to ask either Fleet or Priscilla White if JonBenet requested either of them to wipe her down, whilst at the party?

    .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    ---------->>>I am wondering about the redpart of your post, WHO would have been involved in the 'certain little pedophile group'?

    I also seem to interpret your post as possibly having FW either knowing about the group, or being a part of the group. Which way are you thinking - a. that he knew about it, OR b. that he might have been a part of it?

    As I am posting now, I am sorta gettin' it, while re re reading your blue portion of your post. I am interpreting on the blue part just this minute, that he must have KNOWN about it.

    NOW the big question has to be WHO else was in the house, FW may know this as well, do you think?

    NOW then IF IF what we surmise is accurate, why would FW still maintain a silence, but broke the friendship apart?
    Camper, thank you for your interest in my theory. From the limited information that is available, the ones I suspect as being associated with the 'certain little pedophile group' are DP, FW, BMcR, FB. I think there would be others that I don't know of. I think that they might have occasionally met in groups of upwards of twos and at other times acted singly. I think that sometimes they would meet up with out-of-towners such as CG, FW snr, or new arrivals in Boulder such as CW and GM and they probably knew the names of many of the other pedophiles in Boulder such as MH.

    I don't think FW was present at the murder but I do think that DP, BMcR, CG, CW and GM were. I think FW was the one they telephoned for help after they had killed her. I think that he had a contact in the BPD namely JE, the head detective.

    I think the murder of JonBenet was the culmination of up to three years of sexual abuse by these people, and it occurred because they allowed GM to join the group that last night. I think he was the violent one who inflicted the vaginal injury and when she screamed I think he was the one who picked up a baseball bat and struck her over the head. I think whichever one of the others that was operating the breath control device panicked when she screamed and pulled the noose too tight, accidentally strangling her.

    I think FW and the perpetrators were desperate to hide the fact that the killing was linked to pedophile activity and then to them, so they devised a plan to dress it up as a kidnapping. I think they hid the body in the wine cellar and FW planned that someone was to dump it in the mountains once they had got Patsy, John and Burke out of the house. I think he hoped to avoid the police being called in until they had got rid of the body. Unfortunately Patsy damaged the plan when she called the police and John did even more damage to the plan by finding the body where no self-respecting kidnapper would ever have left it.

    Once the evidence of the sexual abuse began to rear it's ugly head, I think FW et al fed the 'incest' idea to the BPD and encouraged the dissemination of that idea more widely.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    ---------->>>NOW then recall if you will the story of the girl/woman from CA that exposed a pedophile ring that met at Christmas time, flying all over the country to meet at this one and that ones home to pursue their pruient sp? interests. She was wisked off and has never been seen nor heard of again.

    What an easy way to shut someone up, 'she is coo coo', oh, ok then, she IS coo coo, er, hmmm.
    I don't think you are supposed to go there Camper. Not unless you don't mind being branded 'coo coo' as well.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    ---------->>>Then there is the public relations man for the BPD, serving during the murder investigation. He then resigns/quits, goes on a trip to AMSTERDAM. BEFORE he has been there hardly a second or two, he is ACCIDENTALLY killed while trying to get in or out of his taxi, the taxi driver dashes off, while he is half in half out of the taxi, door knocks him over and he is DEAD. Taxi drivers do NOT GET TIPS for killing their passengers. ER do they?

    I found that to be extremely ODD.

    Access had an office in Amsterdam.

    I have even forgotten the PR guys name, but I have never forgotten the tale.

    .
    Camper I have never before heard anything about this. Sounds fascinating. Where do I go to find out more about this, do you know?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpar
    The woman who made all the accusations of pedo ring was discredited.
    She was not credible. She refused to cooperate with authorities when push came to shove. Her " therapist " was a piece of work too !
    How was she discredited sharpar? I have heard that she was, but for what reason and by whom?

    What do you mean "Her " therapist " was a piece of work too !"

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    ---------->>>The 'woman' asked for protection and help. I don't think she received what she asked for. Her CA relatives convinced PD that she was a nut case. I don't think that all was what it appeared to be. IF IF it was the BPD that made that determination, then I would take that with a big piece of salt.


    .
    That's what I thought too. Since her CA relatives were then ones she was accusing of hideous things I'm not surprised they tried that age-old method of keeping 'difficult' women quiet.

  15. #15
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    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    Aussie:

    She was discredited because no one not LE, Forumn folks , or tabloids was able to verify any part of her story. The details were few and far between. What details she did give changed when something discredited what she had said occurred. She too suffered frequent memory loss. So she was disbelieved by everyone who encountered her.

    If you are coming across the country from Ca to Co to tell - then when you get there you obstruct and evade questions, try to impose impossible restrictions, delay and protest everything from location of interview, accomodations, quality of food / beverages, necessity of questions to clarify points or issues ?


    I believe the therapist could have used a bit of therapy. She did not seem to me to be a competent professional helping patients. She seemed more a co- conspirator for lack of a better description .

    The therapist lied about her credentials - WHY ? Presently herself as more educated and more certified than she actually was. She also refused to answer detailed background information on herself and would not tell how they hooked up to come to Boulder in the first place. Why she was accompanying her and what therapy she was providing, not the details which she should keep confidential but the basic sketch of treatment. She claimed this woman was her patient for 10 years . Most people found it extremely odd that this therapist was living and traveling with her patient, that seemed a bit too cozy and violated professional conduct. While therapists care about their patients most dont entwine themselves into your personal life to such a degree that they become a central character. Most therapy is done in an office setting with a appointment schedule and if you are having a crisis they phone in a referral to hospital.

    This is about all I can remember or know about this .

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