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  1. #1
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    The Animal Hair & Transfer

    There was an animal hair found on JonBenet's hand (source - Carnes Report). It supposedly matched nothing in the house. I believe it is one of the few genuine pieces of evidence from the case because it was found on her hand and hairs do not normally stick to skin for long.

    There has been some "hearsay" suggestions as to what this animal hair was. Unfortunately, the sources are not without credibility problems and therefore, cannot be claimed as FACT. Supposedly, the hair was from a wolf or wolf-dog. The Ramsey PIs have suggested this as a link to Michael Helgoth as he had wolf-dogs ... but then they tried to suggest that Michael Helgoth's boots could be linked to the ramsey basement - because debris on the sole of his boots looked the same colour as the mould on the Ramsey basement floor. They drew this conclusion from photographs IGNORING the fact that photographs taken at Helgoth's place of work showed that the soil there was also a similar colour to the debris on the soles of his boots!

    Still, it is interesting to consider how an unknown anuimal hair got onto JonBenet's hand. At jameson's forum, the well respected poster Why_Nut suggested that it could have gotten there by innocent transfer. Hairs transfer easily. I was very allergic to cats as a child and couldn't even sit beside anyone who owned a cat without my eyes and breathing getting affected. The problem was that there might be a cat hair or two on their clothing. I'm sure others will have experienced this too - it's not unusual. Peolpe with cat allergy are often VERY sensitive to cat hair.

    Why_Nut raised the point that Boulder is located in an area which has many wild animals and that it not unusual for these animals to wander into the housing areas at night time in search of food. Indeed, John Ramsey himself wrote about the fact that when they went to view the house, a deer was in the garden and he took this as an omen.

    Why_Nut suggested that if wild animals were known to come into the Ramsey yard, then it might even be possible for them to shed hairs there - which could be picked up by a child playing in the yard and brought into the house on a shoe or the wheel of a toy. His suggestion has been ridiculed - yet it isn't a ridiculous suggestion. A human sheds approximately 100 hairs per day from their head. Think of how many hairs an animal sheds. Those of us with dogs will know just how many hairs they shed on a daily basis (unless we have a breed which doesn't shed). Wild animals have to shed their hairs somewhere - likely everywhere they go. There isn't some mechanism which they can switch on and off to shed their hairs when it suits them! Animals hairs are therefore likely to be everywhere!

    If packing peanuts can be brought in from outside in the ramsey home - so too can other debris - including wild animal hairs.

    It is unlikely that JonBenet's killer brought a wild animal with him/her. The hair most certainly is secondary transfer.

    As WhyNut pointed out, jameson herself wrote about the ease with which hairs and fibres can be transferred. As I recall, the example she gave was that hairs (or was it fibres?) from one of her son's female friends ended up in jameson's bed - even although the girl hadn't been anywhere near jameson's bed. As I recall, the hair was a distinctive colour and therefore unmistakeably from this particular person.

    It seems to me that some people are ready to accept that secondary transfer is worth considering - as long as it didn't come from a Ramsey :-)
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  2. #2
    sharpar's Avatar
    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    I personally have thought the hairs were transfer from the blankets . Who knows where they might have been prior to their appearance in the basement.

  3. #3
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    Possibly from the Whites' House?

    I've always had a feeling JonBenet's hands may have been sticky from eating Christmas sweets.

    We don't know what kind of dog the Whites had, if any, or the people to whom the R's delivered Christmas presents after the evening at the Whites'.

    They say it's the saliva on cat hairs from their washing themselves that provokes allergic reactions. I'm allergic too. Never thought of this before, but I wonder if a person wiped a cat down with a wet washcloth, or two, then with a towel, would much of it would be removed? Silly idea, probably, disrupting such a serious discussion. Long day.

  4. #4
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    Anybody that visits my house always leaves with my dogs hair on their clothing,his hairs could end up in any number of cars and homes .They even showed up in Melbourne at christmas time(we live near Sydney,quite a distance away from Melb].They had attached themselves to the sticky tape used on the packages that I had mailed to my daughter,so his hairs are in Melbourne even though hes hasnt been within a thousand miles of the place.

    Maybe the hair found on Jonbenet could have been transferred in a similar way.Animal hairs will stick to just about anything and travel long distances.I tend to think that the said hair is from an innocent transfer.
    .........just had a thought..maybe I should vaccum more often

  5. #5
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    JBR's Hands Sticky?

    Wasn't it BEAVER hair from someone's parka or boots, rather than dog hair?
    I just want to bump this up near the DNA thread, haven't read it in a while. Could be important.

    JBR was known for not washing too often, probably had sticky hands from eating Christmas candy or something.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    There was an animal hair found on JonBenet's hand (source - Carnes Report). It supposedly matched nothing in the house. I believe it is one of the few genuine pieces of evidence from the case because it was found on her hand and hairs do not normally stick to skin for long.
    I don't think animal hairs stay around for that long, I'm sure JonBenet would have wet her hands sometime during the day and washed away any hairs sticking to her hands prior to the party. If there were no animals at the White's party then I think it quite likely that that one of the pedophiles that I think were responsible for her death brought the animal with them that night. I have read that one of the things that is common in ritual abuse sessions is animal sacrifices.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    I don't think animal hairs stay around for that long, I'm sure JonBenet would have wet her hands sometime during the day and washed away any hairs sticking to her hands prior to the party. If there were no animals at the White's party then I think it quite likely that that one of the pedophiles that I think were responsible for her death brought the animal with them that night. I have read that one of the things that is common in ritual abuse sessions is animal sacrifices.
    Really? I have never heard of that before.
    Above is my opinion only

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    Really? I have never heard of that before.
    Yes, they kill the animal to terrorise the child into submission.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    I don't think animal hairs stay around for that long, I'm sure JonBenet would have wet her hands sometime during the day and washed away any hairs sticking to her hands prior to the party. If there were no animals at the White's party then I think it quite likely that that one of the pedophiles that I think were responsible for her death brought the animal with them that night. I have read that one of the things that is common in ritual abuse sessions is animal sacrifices.
    My recollection is that a beaver hair was found on the tape and a wolf-dog hair was found on her hand. BPD went through the closet floors using sticky tape to collect fibers and didn't find matching hairs.

  10. #10
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    Do you really think they brought in an animal, and killed it in front of JB to scare her into submission? So in your theory, there was a pedophile ring in the R's basement on Christmas night, complete with animal sacrifice, while J and B are asleep and P naps on the couch?

    I think Patsy was a little off in the head, but I cannot imagine her allowing people in, bringing an animal, and providing them with her 6 year old daughter for a session of molestation late Christmas night while the rest of the fam was sleeping upstairs - with a trip planned for the next morning needing early wake up times. Or at all. Why would Patsy allow that?


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuisanceposter
    Do you really think they brought in an animal, and killed it in front of JB to scare her into submission? So in your theory, there was a pedophile ring in the R's basement on Christmas night, complete with animal sacrifice, while J and B are asleep and P naps on the couch?

    I think Patsy was a little off in the head, but I cannot imagine her allowing people in, bringing an animal, and providing them with her 6 year old daughter for a session of molestation late Christmas night while the rest of the fam was sleeping upstairs - with a trip planned for the next morning needing early wake up times. Or at all. Why would Patsy allow that?
    If there really was animal hair on JonBenet's hands that was not from an animal at the White's house or from her pet dog, then yes I do. It could have been what we call a guinea pig (I don't know what you call them) or a small rabbit which they could have brought in a shoebox, got JonBenet to pat it then strangled it with a ligature like the one that was later found around her neck. Santa would have very likely shown the animal to Patsy telling her it was a surprise for JonBenet and would be part of the photoshoot.

    I am pleased that you acknowledge that Patsy 'was a little off her head' - I totally agree - and this is central to my theory - there is no way I would suggest that a 'normal' mother would do the things I am proposing that Patsy did - and I think that Patsy was a lot more than 'a little off her head'.

    However, I am not saying that Patsy was "providing them with her 6 year old daughter for a session of molestation late Christmas night", I am saying she was providing her 6 year old daughter for a photography session late Christmas night with a famous photographer so that images of her daughter would appear in some glossy magazine article about Santa's Christmas activities (just the cutesy wholesome applepie ones) around Boulder.

    As for the getting up early bit, I think Patsy figured they could catch up on their sleep on the plane. She might have even considered it would be a plus for JonBenet to be zonked out for the duration of the flight, then she could have a more relaxing flight without a bored 6 year old pestering her.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    My recollection is that a beaver hair was found on the tape and a wolf-dog hair was found on her hand. BPD went through the closet floors using sticky tape to collect fibers and didn't find matching hairs.
    Well if that is all uncontestable fact, then I withdraw my suggestion because I don't think they would have brought anything as large or as noisy as a beaver or a wolf-dog.

    Are you sure though, that the hairs were positively identified as beaver and wolf-dog? I can't imagine how those types of hairs would have got on her hand or the tape. Maybe this was just rumour. Was a wolf-dog suggested by people who might have been trying to frame Helgoth? I don't know how common beavers are - are they found in people's gardens? It was winter - wouldn't they be hibernating? Do people wear clothes made of beaver hair? Oh yes... Davy Crockett. (edit) no that was a racoon wasn't it?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    Well if that is all uncontestable fact, then I withdraw my suggestion because I don't think they would have brought anything as large or as noisy as a beaver or a wolf-dog.

    Are you sure though, that the hairs were positively identified as beaver and wolf-dog? I can't imagine how those types of hairs would have got on her hand or the tape. Maybe this was just rumour. Was a wolf-dog suggested by people who might have been trying to frame Helgoth? I don't know how common beavers are - are they found in people's gardens? It was winter - wouldn't they be hibernating? Do people wear clothes made of beaver hair? Oh yes... Davy Crockett. (edit) no that was a racoon wasn't it?
    I'm not sure the wolf-dog hair is uncontestable. I can't find a source for that.

    The beaver hair was confirmed by the FBI.
    http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=25

    Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. Carnes wrote that nothing in the Ramsey home was found matching the hair.

    Other dark animal hairs were found on JonBenet’s hands that matched nothing in the Ramsey home, Carnes wrote.



    ST depo:

    5 Q. You don't want me to go there.
    6 The -- as I understand it, there was a
    7 beaver hair, what was identified as a beaver
    8 hair, found on the duct tape?
    9 A. FBI lab identified a hair or fiber
    10 from the adhesive side of the duct tape as a
    11 beaver hair.

  14. #14
    sharpar's Avatar
    sharpar is offline If dogs dont go to heaven I want to go where they are
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    considering patsy was not a great housekeeper and there were many people in and out of the house not to mention crews from the remodeling
    I dont put much signifiance in the hairs on the duct tape . The source of the hair could have left with other items from the crime scene.

  15. #15
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    I've Read That Too.

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    ....... If there were no animals at the White's party then I think it quite likely that that one of the pedophiles that I think were responsible for her death brought the animal with them that night. I have read that one of the things that is common in ritual abuse sessions is animal sacrifices.
    Yes, I've read that too about ritual abuse cases, just this morning, in my google search for the name of Charlie Manson's mental disorder. They kill the animal to impress the child victim that they could be killed too. One described different kinds of knives used for stabbing or for eviscerating (sp again?). I think the child was only 5 yrs old. The article said this happens at military bases a lot, didn't say why. I have the link to that because I printed part of it, http://www.crab.rutgers.edu/-goertze...ristLives.html

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