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Thread: Vermont asked to take down sex offender registry

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    Vermont asked to take down sex offender registry

    the story

    MONTPELIER, Vt. -- The weekend shooting deaths of two men on Maine's sex offender registry are prompting calls for Vermont's online system to be taken down.


    The American Civil Liberties Union's state chapter argues that the online registry could lead to a similar situation.


    "This is a stark reminder that there's no evidence that online sex offender registries increase public safety," said Allen Gilbert, executive director of the Vermont ACLU. "In fact, they might just do the opposite."

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    I disagree with that article.


    I personally feel that a couple of dead sex offenders does keep society safer.

    Besides, I don't think everyone is running around killing sex offenders.
    Mostly those lists are used by concerned parents to keep their children safe.

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    What Amraann said. I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opie
    What Amraann said. I agree.
    Yep, me too..what Amraann said

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    People who are determined to kill somebody will choose a target by their own criteria. Sometimes because they don't like them, sometimes because of their smile, their red hair, or because of their political office or because they are on the sex offender list. When presidents get shot, do we do away with the presidential office?
    When the majority of these guys committed their crimes, they knew they would probably end up on the sex offender list if they got caught. They didn't let that stop them, so why should it stop Vermont?
    When they engage in sexual behavior with a child, they knowingly take the risk of ending up on the list. We don't do anything about people who skydive, drive racecars, or do other risky decisions. So why should we protect a person who knowingly committed a criminal act, knowing that he would likely end up on a sexual offender list, and knowing that most people would disapprove of his actions. I don't believe in going out in shooting them. But I don't believe that we need to protect them from their own risky behavior either.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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    mysteriew, to continue your thought, skydiving and race car driving are not illegal, either. If some idiot commits a crime, all bets are off, I say.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    People who are determined to kill somebody will choose a target by their own criteria. Sometimes because they don't like them, sometimes because of their smile, their red hair, or because of their political office or because they are on the sex offender list. When presidents get shot, do we do away with the presidential office?
    When the majority of these guys committed their crimes, they knew they would probably end up on the sex offender list if they got caught. They didn't let that stop them, so why should it stop Vermont?
    When they engage in sexual behavior with a child, they knowingly take the risk of ending up on the list. We don't do anything about people who skydive, drive racecars, or do other risky decisions. So why should we protect a person who knowingly committed a criminal act, knowing that he would likely end up on a sexual offender list, and knowing that most people would disapprove of his actions. I don't believe in going out in shooting them. But I don't believe that we need to protect them from their own risky behavior either.
    Would you also agree then that publicly posting a list of doctors who perform abortions should be legal as well?

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    Here is an explanation of the regristry

    PDF



    It is our duty to protect the public.
    It is the duty of state and federal entities to alert the vulnerable population of the release of an individual related to the nature of the offense.
    Public saftey
    The incident that took place on Maine was isolated.
    The registry has been active since 1996.

    The registry is tool that is at hand to further the saftey of society.Take it away and we regress in our saftey of human services instead of progressing.It does not matter if a person is without a computer,they will hear about a predator in their community by word of mouth by someone who did see something online or from a news story.
    The public needs the registry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    Would you also agree then that publicly posting a list of doctors who perform abortions should be legal as well?

    Big difference IMO!
    I'm against abortions.. but
    a doctor who performs an abortion does it with the consent of the person who is pregnant. They don't go out and find any pregnant woman and
    MAKE her have an abortion!
    A sex offender does not have consent and goes out and finds
    their victim and MAKES them do sexual things!
    It's called free agency.. the freedom to choose.
    And sex offenders do not let their victims choose!

  10. #10
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    2luvmy is offline RIP Ragdoll. You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    Would you also agree then that publicly posting a list of doctors who perform abortions should be legal as well?
    I don't personally agree with abortion, however it is legal. Therefore doctor's performing them are not doing anything wrong.

    Sexual predators on the other hand are. They are predators lying in wait for the next opportunity to strike their unsuspecting victim/s without their consent. The registries are a tool to be used by people who want to be informed about the area they or loved ones live in.

    I have found it to be a useful tool. I just learned that my parents had a sexual deviant about 7 doors down from them - in a very nice neighborhood. While we were visiting I was more vigilant about watching my 2 teen daughters and refusing to let them visit that end of the street. I didn't walk down there to confront the freak nor did I drive by to take a look and gawk at him. I knew he was there and that was enough for me.

    These list do more good than bad. Any person intent on killing someone will find a way-be it a registry or not. So are we supposed to take down honor roll lists, prayer chains, employee of the week list, contribution lists, etc. because someone might get a wild hair and target them?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 2luvmy
    Sexual predators on the other hand are. They are predators lying in wait for the next opportunity to strike their unsuspecting victim/s without their consent. The registries are a tool to be used by people who want to be informed about the area they or loved ones live in.
    What about those who want to be informed about the services doctors are providing in their area? Shouldn't they have the right to have a registry as well?

  12. #12
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    2luvmy is offline RIP Ragdoll. You don't get to choose how you're going to die, or when. You can only decide how you're going to live now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    What about those who want to be informed about the services doctors are providing in their area? Shouldn't they have the right to have a registry as well?

    Sure they have a registry - the phone book!

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    Would you also agree then that publicly posting a list of doctors who perform abortions should be legal as well?
    Whether or not a doctor chooses to perform abortions, it is a legal act and done with the perspective mothers consent. So no, I don't think there should be a registry for doctors who perform abortions. They should be free to choose whether or not to advertise that fact.

    But a sex offender who chooses to commit an illegal act, who chooses to force a sexual act on an unwilling or underage victim, is committing a crime. And this particular crime is one where history shows us is usually repeated with the same victim or with many victims. Child abusers and rapists especially target the most vulnerable people in our society. And they do that knowing that if they get caught, they are going to go to court, and if convicted they are going to be put on the sex offenders registry. So in effect, they chose to go on the registry or at least chose to behave in a manner that could require them being put on a registry. I agree with the registries as a way of protecting children and others.

    Before the registries were started, the nay sayers were saying that a registry would endanger the persons who were put on the registry. They predicted the deaths of many of the offenders. Guess what? Hasn't happened. This makes something like 4 murders connected to a registry of tens of thousands. Which actually means they are in less danger from being on the registry, than say if they drive a car- cause if they drive, they also run the risk of an accident and injury or death.
    If they are so afraid of the registry- they can choose to quit their illegal behavior- before they get caught.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    Whether or not a doctor chooses to perform abortions, it is a legal act and done with the perspective mothers consent. So no, I don't think there should be a registry for doctors who perform abortions. They should be free to choose whether or not to advertise that fact.
    But should private citizens be free to create a list if they choose? If not, why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    But a sex offender who chooses to commit an illegal act, who chooses to force a sexual act on an unwilling or underage victim, is committing a crime. And this particular crime is one where history shows us is usually repeated with the same victim or with many victims. Child abusers and rapists especially target the most vulnerable people in our society. And they do that knowing that if they get caught, they are going to go to court, and if convicted they are going to be put on the sex offenders registry. So in effect, they chose to go on the registry or at least chose to behave in a manner that could require them being put on a registry. I agree with the registries as a way of protecting children and others.
    Yes, much the same way a doctor chooses to perform certain procedures and would therefore be choosing to put himself on a list.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    Before the registries were started, the nay sayers were saying that a registry would endanger the persons who were put on the registry. They predicted the deaths of many of the offenders. Guess what? Hasn't happened.
    But it is happening, that's the point of our discussion. And if this is your logic, how many doctors have been killed because they were put on a list?

    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    If they are so afraid of the registry- they can choose to quit their illegal behavior- before they get caught.
    That's right. And if doctors are so afraid of the list, they can stop performing abortions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    What about those who want to be informed about the services doctors are providing in their area? Shouldn't they have the right to have a registry as well?
    I think that's called "the yellow pages"??

    Actually, here in Pensacola a few years ago someone killed a doctor who performed abortions....I don't think they took doctors names out of the phonebook (registry)

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    Quote Originally Posted by czechmate7
    I think that's called "the yellow pages"??

    Actually, here in Pensacola a few years ago someone killed a doctor who performed abortions....I don't think they took doctors names out of the phonebook (registry)
    Actually, the yellow pages does remove the names, addresses and phone numbers of a number of sensitive people - police, abortion clinic workers, witness protection, etc. The abortion clinic is in the yellow pages. The home info about the doctors is removed if they so request.

    That's at the least here, but I'd assume most everywhere. I know about it because there was a huge scandal - some versions of the white pages were accidentally printed with full info on all the private numbers. Big scandal, big, huge problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    But should private citizens be free to create a list if they choose? If not, why not?

    Yes, much the same way a doctor chooses to perform certain procedures and would therefore be choosing to put himself on a list.


    But it is happening, that's the point of our discussion. And if this is your logic, how many doctors have been killed because they were put on a list?


    That's right. And if doctors are so afraid of the list, they can stop performing abortions.
    Doctors have been killed for being on the list. And those lists are generally threats - they will often show the doctors family, the school their kids go to - nice people who make these lists - they don't stop anywhere! And the killers aren't very discriminating, they kill people who just happen to be near the doctor at the time!

    That's like saying that it should be OK to make a list of interracial marriages, and if you don't want to be on that list - don't marry outside of your race. If you don't want to be on the list of highly conservative republicans against immigration amnesty, change your political beliefs! If you don't want to be listed as a person who is anti-gang in a heavy gang area, and who reports illegal activities to police, don't report the gang!

    No - all the difference in the world between legal and illegal.

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    This thread is about "sex offender registries," NOT abortion. Please stick to the topic. Thanks.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Details
    Doctors have been killed for being on the list. And those lists are generally threats - they will often show the doctors family, the school their kids go to - nice people who make these lists - they don't stop anywhere! And the killers aren't very discriminating, they kill people who just happen to be near the doctor at the time!

    That's like saying that it should be OK to make a list of interracial marriages, and if you don't want to be on that list - don't marry outside of your race. If you don't want to be on the list of highly conservative republicans against immigration amnesty, change your political beliefs! If you don't want to be listed as a person who is anti-gang in a heavy gang area, and who reports illegal activities to police, don't report the gang!

    No - all the difference in the world between legal and illegal.
    But if you're a convicted offender and your being on a list is making you a target, that's too bad? The State has no obligation to protect you?

    And since legal/illegal matters, what if these criminals had only been convicted of driving too fast, would you feel the same?

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    I could care less about a dead sex offender. I am so tired of hearing the aclu while about how cruel life is to a sex offender. Whoever killed them did everyone in Maine a favor if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sisters
    I could care less about a dead sex offender. I am so tired of hearing the aclu while about how cruel life is to a sex offender. Whoever killed them did everyone in Maine a favor if you ask me.
    Thank you 2sisters! I couldn't have said this better myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke
    But if you're a convicted offender and your being on a list is making you a target, that's too bad? The State has no obligation to protect you?

    And since legal/illegal matters, what if these criminals had only been convicted of driving too fast, would you feel the same?
    The state has an obligation to protect you - but more of an obligation to protect the innocent, law abiding citizens - and for sex offenders, not knowing who and where you are is a risk to the law abiding citizens. It's a balancing act - the risk to convicted sex offenders balanced against the risk to law abiding citizens unknowingly living next door to a convicted sex offender. Putting them in some jepordy is acceptable only in order to protect the innocent.

    I wouldn't have much trouble with it - convictions are public. Lots of places have done similar bits to embarass 'Johns' men caught soliciting prostitution. The big thing here is that sex offenders reoffend a lot, and that they do so with their neighbors, so their neighbors have a right to know that superceeds their right to privacy.

    Of course legal/illegal matters! Should a criminal be more protected than someone who has always followed the law? Put a sex offender next to a possible target without letting them know, and that's exactly what's happening.

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    My only objection to someone hunting down sex offenders is that the category is too broad - it needs to be the real dangerous ones, not the 20 year old with an 16 year old, or indecent exposure for peeing in the bushes types of 'sex offenders'. But given that you're going after the repeat, violent pedophiles - I'm not going to look to hard to see what happens to them.

    PS: Know you weren't adressing me, but still an interesting question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Details
    Actually, the yellow pages does remove the names, addresses and phone numbers of a number of sensitive people - police, abortion clinic workers, witness protection, etc. The abortion clinic is in the yellow pages. The home info about the doctors is removed if they so request.

    That's at the least here, but I'd assume most everywhere. I know about it because there was a huge scandal - some versions of the white pages were accidentally printed with full info on all the private numbers. Big scandal, big, huge problem.
    I don't think many doctors in this area have their home # in the phone book....most just have their business info..

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    People who get so concerned over the sex offender registry should check out their state dept. of corrections website. All felons in prison get their pictures put on the internet, no matter if they are in for theft or for murder. And what they were convicted of is usually listed also as well as the date of conviction and sometimes the date of expected release. Sometimes, those offenders even get special attention paid to them when the are released from prison, and newspaper articles get written about them. And yes, in many states (not all) people who are convicted of traffic offenses get their names entered in the public court sites.
    If you are trying to convince me that it is wrong to put the names of sex offenders in a public sex offender registry, you are too late.....already considered the risks, both ways. I am part of the group that thinks that if they are going to be released out into society (and that should be a rare occurance), they should have a warning tattooed on their foreheads. As far as I am concerned, I would be okay with first conviction- life sentence. Then I guess we could do away with the sex offender registy. LOL, when I think about it too long, I could probably be convinced to vote for a death penalty for most of 'em.
    The risk of a convicted sex offender being injured or killed is a whole lot less than that of a child being harmed by an offender who chooses to offend again. Like I said only 4 known sex offenders killed out of the thousands who are listed. Way too many more children than that were harmed by previously convicted sex offenders. Way too many more children than that are killed by previously convicted sex offenders. So don't ask me to be concerned for a couple of pervs who got targeted by a murderer. They are going to try the murderer for breaking the law. And his name and picture will go up on the dept. of corrections website.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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