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  1. #1
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    Dec 2005
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    CA - Deborah, 34, Harvey, 30 & Sean Dubs, 1, San Francisco, 25 July 1984

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dubs_deborah.html



    Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance
    Missing Since: July 25, 1984 from San Francisco, California
    Classification: Endangered Missing
    Date Of Birth: November 30, 1950
    Age: 33 years old
    Height and Weight: 5'4, 107 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair, brown eyes. Deborah has a tracheotomy scar on her neck. Her maiden name is Nourse. Deborah's ears are pierced. Some agencies may spell her last name "Dubbs."
    Clothing Description: A white blouse with red horizontal stripes, dark-colored slacks, sandals or brown loafers, a wedding band and a silver watch with a leather strap.
    Medical Conditions: Deborah was pregnant at the time of her 1984 disappearance.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dubs_harvey.html



    Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance
    Missing Since: July 25, 1984 from San Francisco, California
    Classification: Endangered Missing
    Date Of Birth: July 5, 1954
    Age: 30 years old
    Height and Weight: 5'10, 155 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair, brown eyes. Harvey wears eyeglasses. Some agencies may spell his last name "Dubbs."
    Clothing Description: A dark-colored t-shirt, blue jeans and white tennis shoes.

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dubs_sean.html


    Missing Since: July 25, 1984 from San Francisco, California
    Classification: Non-Family Abduction
    Date Of Birth: March 30, 1983
    Age: 1 year old
    Height and Weight: 2'9, 25 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair, brown eyes. Some agencies may spell Sean's last name "Dubbs."
    Clothing Description: A t-shirt, tan corduroy pants and a diaper.






    Details of Disappearance
    Sean and his parents, Harvey Dubs and Deborah Dubs, lived in San Francisco, California in 1984. Harvey was selling video equipment in July of that year and placed an adverisement in a local newspaper. Deborah was speaking on the telephone to a friend on July 25 when the doorbell rang at their family's apartment. Deborah told her friend that she had to end the conversation, as two men who were interested in the items had arrived at their home. Deborah, Harvey and Sean have never been heard from again.

    One of the Dub family's neighbors saw an Asian man leave their residence with a box later in the day. The same neighbor observed an unidentified vehicle drive away from the Dubs's apartment on July 26, the day after the family disappeared. The neighbor attempted to follow the car, but she lost the vehicle in traffic.

    A man identifying himself as Jim Bright called Harvey's employer shortly afterwards and claimed that the family moved to Washington. The unidentified man terminated the conversation when Harvey's employer became suspicious.

    Authorities believe that the Dubs family were victims of serial killers Charles Chitat (occasionally spelled "Chat") Ng and Leonard Lake. Photos of Ng and Lake are posted below this case summary. The men reportedly met through an advertisement in a survivalist magazine in the early 1980s. Lake was a former United States Marine and a Vietnam War veteran. Ng was a citizen of Hong Kong and falsified American citizenship documents in order to enlist in the Marines. Ng was charged with stealing weapons from the military in 1982 and was apprehended on Lake's property in California later that year. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison and should have been deported to Hong Kong after completing his sentence, but a bureaucratic error allowed Ng to remain in the United States.

    Ng was released in 1984 and moved on to Lake's ranch in Wilseyville, California. Lake was a survivalist and the residence was stocked with weapons, explosives and provisions. Ng and Lake began using the ranch as a veritable sex slave compound shortly thereafter. Authorities believe that the men found their victims at random, as in the case of the Dubs family. The female victims were often videotaped and forced to perform sexual acts for Ng and Lake prior to their murders. The male victims and children were usually tortured before their deaths.

    Investigators apprehended Lake after he and Ng were caught shoplifting from a San Francisco hardware store in 1985. Ng fled from officers, but Lake was taken into custody. The men were driving a vehicle owned by a missing person, who was later determined to have been one of their victims. A pistol and a silencer were discovered inside the car. Lake swallowed a cyanide capsule he taped to the collar of his shirt while in custody. He reportedly told authorities that Ng was his partner prior to his death several days later. Investigators searched Lake's property and uncovered the remains of several victims. Many of the bodies had been dismembered and burned, making identifications of the victims difficult or impossible.

    Ng was apprehended in Canada later in 1985. He was convicted of eleven murders in California in 1999 after 14 years of legal wrangling and stalling. Ng's trial was one of the most expensive in California history. He claimed Lake was the actual murderer and has never accepted responsibility for the murders. A receipt in Harvey Dubs's name was discovered at Lake's compound, but the family's remains have never been recovered. It is believed that the Dubs family was forcibly abducted from their home and murdered at the ranch. Ng and Lake are also believed to be responsible for the 1985 disappearances of Jeffrey Gerald and Clifford Peranteau, both of whom vanished from San Francisco and have never been located.


  2. #2
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    Dec 2005
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    Jeffrey D. Gerald & Clifford Raymond Peranteau

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...d_jeffrey.html



    Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance
    Missing Since: February 24, 1985 from San Francisco, California
    Classification: Endangered Missing
    Date Of Birth: June 21, 1949
    Age: 35 years old
    Height and Weight: 6'3, 170 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair, blue eyes.




    Details of Disappearance
    Gerald was last seen in San Francisco, California on February 24, 1985. He has never been heard from again. Authorities believe that Gerald was a victim of serial killers Charles Chitat (occasionally spelled "Chat") Ng and Leonard Lake. Photos of Ng and Lake are posted below this case summary. The men reportedly met through an advertisement in a survivalist magazine in the early 1980s. Lake was a former United States Marine and a Vietnam War veteran. Ng was a citizen of Hong Kong and falsified American citizenship documents in order to enlist in the Marines. Ng was charged with stealing weapons from the military in 1982 and was apprehended on Lake's property in California later that year. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison and should have been deported to Hong Kong after completing his sentence, but a bureaucratic error allowed Ng to remain in the United States.

    Ng was released in 1984 and moved on to Lake's ranch in Wilseyville, California. Lake was a survivalist and the residence was stocked with weapons, explosives and provisions. Ng and Lake began using the ranch as a veritable sex slave compound shortly thereafter. Authorities believe that the men found their victims at random, as in the Gerald's case. The female victims were often videotaped and forced to perform sexual acts for Ng and Lake prior to their murders. The male victims and children were usually tortured before their deaths.

    Investigators apprehended Lake after he and Ng were caught shoplifting from a San Francisco hardware store in 1985. Ng fled from officers, but Lake was taken into custody. The men were driving a vehicle owned by a missing person, who was later determined to have been one of their victims. A pistol and a silencer were discovered inside the car. Lake swallowed a cyanide capsule he taped to the collar of his shirt while in custody. He reportedly told authorities that Ng was his partner prior to his death several days later. Investigators searched Lake's property and uncovered the remains of several victims. Many of the bodies had been dismembered and burned, making identifications of the victims difficult or impossible.

    Ng was apprehended in Canada later in 1985. He was convicted of eleven murders in California in 1999 after 14 years of legal wrangling and stalling. Ng's trial was one of the most expensive in California history. He claimed Lake was the actual murderer and has never accepted responsibility for the murders.

    Authorities believe that three members of the Dubs family -- Deborah, Harvey and Sean -- were victims of Ng and Lake. The men are also believed to be responsible for the 1985 San Francisco disappearance of Clifford Peranteau. None of the presumed victims have been located.



    Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance
    Missing Since: January 20, 1985 from San Francisco, California
    Classification: Endangered Missing
    Date Of Birth: February 23, 1961
    Age: 23 years old
    Height and Weight: 6'1, 185 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Blond hair, blue eyes. Peranteau's nickname is Cliff.




    Details of Disappearance
    Peranteau was employed at Dennis Moving Company in San Francisco, California in 1985. Witnesses told authorities that he often argued with one of his co-workers, Charles Chitat (occasionally spelled "Chat") Ng. Peranteau was last seen in San Francisco on January 20, 1985. He has never been heard from again. Several of Peranteau's personal belongings were discovered shortly afterwards in an apartment owned by Ng, as well as in the cabin Ng frequented with his friend, Leonard Lake.

    Authorities believe that Peranteau was a victim of Ng and Lake, serial killers who operated in the San Francisco area in the 1980s. Photos of Ng and Lake are posted below this case summary. The men reportedly met through an advertisement in a survivalist magazine in the early 1980s. Lake was a former United States Marine and a Vietnam War veteran. Ng was a citizen of Hong Kong and falsified American citizenship documents in order to enlist in the Marines. Ng was charged with stealing weapons from the military in 1982 and was apprehended on Lake's property in California later that year. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison and should have been deported to Hong Kong after completing his sentence, but a bureaucratic error allowed Ng to remain in the United States.

    Ng was released in 1984 and moved on to Lake's ranch in Wilseyville, California. Lake was a survivalist and the residence was stocked with weapons, explosives and provisions. Ng and Lake began using the ranch as a veritable sex slave compound shortly thereafter. Authorities believe that the men found their victims at random. The female victims were often videotaped and forced to perform sexual acts for Ng and Lake prior to their murders. The male victims and children were usually tortured before their deaths.

    Investigators apprehended Lake after he and Ng were caught shoplifting from a San Francisco hardware store in 1985. Ng fled from officers, but Lake was taken into custody. The men were driving a vehicle owned by a missing person, who was later determined to have been one of their victims. A pistol and a silencer were discovered inside the car. Lake swallowed a cyanide capsule he taped to the collar of his shirt while in custody. He reportedly told authorities that Ng was his partner prior to his death several days later. Investigators searched Lake's property and uncovered the remains of several victims. Many of the bodies had been dismembered and burned, making identifications of the victims difficult or impossible.

    Ng was apprehended in Canada later in 1985. He was convicted of eleven murders in California in 1999 after 14 years of legal wrangling and stalling. Ng's trial was one of the most expensive in California history. He claimed Lake was the actual murderer and has never accepted responsibility for the murders. Authorities believe that Peranteau was murdered as a result of his disagreements with Ng. Peranteau's remains have never been located. Ng and Lake are also believed to be responsible for the 1984 San Francisco disappearances of Deborah Dubs, her husband Harvey and their young son Sean, as well as the 1985 disappearance of Jeffrey Gerald.


  3. #3
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    Aug 2004
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    2,959
    I watched the episode of American Justice about Charles Ng and it sickened me. The things he did to these people and the children and the fact that he totally abused the justice system for years is disgusting. I hope he goes straight to hell after he is executed.

  4. #4
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    I cant believe I have never till just now heard about these 2 killers. Were they murdering for material gain or just out of complete twistedness?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by missacorah View Post
    I cant believe I have never till just now heard about these 2 killers. Were they murdering for material gain or just out of complete twistedness?
    Both. The Crime Library has a feature article about the duo:

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_k...ng/call_1.html

    I was living in California at the time and this was a huge story, Ng and Lake are considered the worst serial killers in CA history and that in a state that has had more than its fair share of such "celebrities". Unfortunately, it is unlikely that Ng will ever be executed, as he was extradited from Canada -after serving a sentence there for attempted murder- under the condition that he not be put to death because Canada has a law on its books that makes it illegal to extradite suspects to jurisdictions where they might be executed, apparently most countries who have abolished the death penalty have such laws. For the sake of good relations with Canada Washington is pressuring Sacramento to keep its word even though I doubt most Canadians would give a damn if Ng is executed. That and the fact that California rarely executes death sentences to start with probably means Ng will die of natural causes while incarcerated.

  6. #6
    timetravel is offline care giver of all stray and feral cats who come my way.
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    book on subject

    I believe the book on the subject is called A Time to Die....forget the author....

  7. #7
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    Posts
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    Books on Lake and Ng

    There are a couple of books on Lake and Ng:

    Eye of Evil by Joseph Burger and Robert Harrington

    Die for Me by Don Lasseter

    Lasseter's book is the better, more detailed of the two

    There have also been a couple of books on Ng and his attempts to elude justice. One of them is:

    No Kill No Thrill by Greg Owens and Darcy Henton


    Hester Mofet

  8. #8
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    Jan 2006
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    Thankyou so much for all that info. Ive been busy catching up on all of this!

  9. #9
    timetravel is offline care giver of all stray and feral cats who come my way.
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    die for me...that was the title i was thinking of - and i just finished it two weeks ago ! its that age old senility catching up with me.....i need some anna nicole smith memory pills.....

  10. #10
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    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
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    I'm confused. I thought the Dub family was found at the Lake/Eng cabin at Wilseyvlle.

    One has to wonder why DNA testing isn't done on the remains found in Wilseyville in order to put this to rest. I realize there were a lot of remains found but who knows how many missing people could be identified if DNA testing were done.

    I'm also a bit disappointed on the info available on the victims, yet so much on Lake & Eng.




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