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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Here is what the Doenetwork file on this man states, along with a link to the site which shows the composite sketch. Note that the name he gave to the Hotel Clerk was Lyle Stevik - a character in the book "You Must Remember This", by Joyce Carol Oates. He obviously identified in some way with that character. Does anyone know that book and character?
    --------------------------------

    Unidentified White / Native Male
    Located on September 17, 2001 in Amanda Park, Grays Harbor County, Washington.
    Date of death is September 16, 2001
    Vital Statistics
    Estimated age: 20 - 30 years old
    Approximate Height and Weight: 6'2"; 140 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Possibly Hispanic. Black hair; hazel eyes. His hair was neatly trimmed. Appendectomy scar on abdomen.
    Dentals: Available. Teeth in near perfect shape. He had orthodontic work done.
    Clothing: Blue plaid shirt, gray Fruit of the Loom T-shirt, Levi 550 blue jeans (size 36-34), black Timberland boots (size 10 Medium) and a black leather belt.
    Fingerprints: Available
    Other: It is possible that he spoke with a slight Canadian or similar accent.

    Case History

    The body of this white or Native American male was located in a Quinault area motel. his death has been ruled a suicide.

    He had checked into the motel using the name "Lyle Stevik" from 1019 S. Progress Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. Address he listed is for a motel. Lyle Stevik is a character in the book You Must Remember This, by Joyce Carol Oates.

    The maid entered the room the following morning and he indicated that he was going to stay a few more days though he had only paid for one evening. The maid entered the room on September 17, 2001 and found him hanging from the coat rack. He had left money on the nightstand that with a note that said "For the Room". The only personal belongings in his possession was a tooth brush and paste.

    Fingerprints sent to FBI and RCMP with Negative results. He had recently lost a lot of weight (possibly 30-40 pounds).

    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
    Grays Harbor Sheriff's Department
    Detective Lane Youmans
    360-249-3711 x574

    Agency Case Number: 01-7870
    NCIC Number: U-960002335
    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Source Information:
    Missing Persons Gallery
    Child Protection Education of America
    The Doe Network: Case File 233UMWA

    Link:
    http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/233umwa.html
    I was curious about that weight-loss of 30-40 pounds and how he perhaps lost that weight...

    About the source information- I think the second link or both links contain a post-mortem photo of JD and it doesn't have a warning/caution on the bottom- I'll see if I can e-mail them about that...

    Here's a summary I found about the book You Must Remember This

    Prolific writer Oates demonstrates awesome talent in her new novel, a family saga, set against the backdrop of conservatism that marked America in the 1950s. Through the actions of Lyle Stevick and his family, Oates creates a vivid portrait of bewildered, inarticulate people pushed against the narrow boundaries of their era by their emotions. Lyle is a man of small failures and smaller successes, a dealer in used furniture whose marriage is a continual reminder of one moment's misspent passion. He regards his brother Felix, a boxer, with cynicism born of envy. Lyle loves his children, but clearly does not know them. He is blind to his daughter Enid's affair with the virile Felix. Oates is not easy on her characters. She moves them through McCarthyism, backyard fallout shelters and illegal abortions, slapping them with harsh reflections of their weaknesses. Fully developed, they are described in language that is both elegant and gritty. The scenes between Enid and Felix add a pulsing, sensate eroticism. Infused with narrative energy, this is one of Oates's strongest books in many seasons. 50,000 first printing; major ad/promo; Literary Guild main selection.
    Copyright 1987 Reed Business Information, Inc.

    I looked up "Quinault" on google and I found a site for an indian reservation and a lodge- so if he is American Indian- he could possibly be a Quinault Indian maybe. I found something called "Destination Grays Harbor, 2002- Quinault area and I wondered if this was the place he stayed at- but the case history says "motel", so it's hard to know what hotel he was at in Quinault area...
    Last edited by outofthedark; 04-24-2006 at 11:35 AM.

  2. #17
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    As Time Goes By...

    The book "You Must Remember This", by Joyce Carol Oates takes its title from the first line of a WW II era song "As Time Goes By..." A British TV soap opera show (seen in the US on PBS) uses the same song as its theme song.

    You must remember this,
    A kiss is just a kiss,
    A sigh is just a sigh.
    The fundamental things apply,
    As time goes by....

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The book "You Must Remember This", by Joyce Carol Oates takes its title from the first line of a WW II era song "As Time Goes By..." A British TV soap opera show (seen in the US on PBS) uses the same song as its theme song.

    You must remember this,
    A kiss is just a kiss,
    A sigh is just a sigh.
    The fundamental things apply,
    As time goes by....
    Interesting fact about the book title...

    Still hard to figure out what the connection is between JD and the story- I could guess that he had read the story at one point in his life or it was his favorite story, I dunno...

    I have searched more missing persons and I still have dead-ends as to who JD might actually be- it'll probably show up someday though...

    Thought of this to name JD- "Robert Quinn Harbor-Doe", combination of all the names that we all came up with to replace "John Doe"- but if we do use it, don't pass it on to anyone else who might also have a message board post about this case on a forum other than this one... thank you...

  4. #19
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    Does the Grays Harbor Sheriff's Department have an e-mail address to go along with that phone number?

    I wanted to ask them perhaps a few questions about John Doe and their investigation...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by outofthedark
    . Was he depressed? Did he go through a breakup? Did he lose a loved one?
    The fact that he gave another hotel's address as his own and used an alias gives me feeling that he didn't want anyone to know about him...
    ..

    I think the two things fit very well together. I know I'm reaching, but it kind of seems like something that could have happened after a breakup. Maybe his relationship/marriage ended, and he went far away and did this. She'd never have an answer of what happened to him, and she'd always wonder. To some people, that would make perfect sense. Kind of a "look what I did because of you."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoccerMom
    I think the two things fit very well together. I know I'm reaching, but it kind of seems like something that could have happened after a breakup. Maybe his relationship/marriage ended, and he went far away and did this. She'd never have an answer of what happened to him, and she'd always wonder. To some people, that would make perfect sense. Kind of a "look what I did because of you."
    If he really did kill himself over a divorce or seperation, then it would be coincidental to this John Doe case, also from the Doe Network:

    http://doenetwork.us/cases/720umsk.html

    About his appendoctomy scar- do you think it's possible that he suffered from stomach problems? Would the surgeon/whomever would recognize him as their patient? Or was the appendoctomy the result of his death?

    The whole marriage thing fits in with his estimated age range with his year of birth probably being from 1970-1981. If he was 30- there is a good chance of estimating how long he could have been married for. But if he was 20 and was married, what age did he marry at?

  7. #22
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    In these days appendectomies are so "run of the mill" I doubt a surgeon would recognize him. Not to mention with so many specialists required nowadays, his surgeon was unlikely his regular doctor.

    I like that name, outofthedark! Robert Quinn Harbor-Doe. Very creative! Hope he won't mind if I shorten it to Robert... or Rob...

    If he wanted an ex to "look at what you made me do" or whatnot, wouldn't he WANT her to find out?

    I don't see a connection between suicide at a motel and using the address of a motel. I still think that address he used was too remote to be randomly chosen.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bykerladi
    In these days appendectomies are so "run of the mill" I doubt a surgeon would recognize him. Not to mention with so many specialists required nowadays, his surgeon was unlikely his regular doctor.

    I like that name, outofthedark! Robert Quinn Harbor-Doe. Very creative! Hope he won't mind if I shorten it to Robert... or Rob...

    If he wanted an ex to "look at what you made me do" or whatnot, wouldn't he WANT her to find out?

    I don't see a connection between suicide at a motel and using the address of a motel. I still think that address he used was too remote to be randomly chosen.
    Thanks! We could shorten it to Rob or Robert and turn it into a full-time nickname that we could call him in our posts instead of "John Doe"

    If he had an ex, maybe he killed himself and didn't tell her so he could suprise her with his revenge that he had taken out on her. If he had an ex before his death, perhaps she cheated on him or dumped him without his knowledge...

    That whole committing suicide at a motel and using the address of a motel from another state confuses me- why would he do that? Was he planning to go to that Idaho motel?

  9. #24
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    Perhaps he once worked at the motel and remembered the address.

  10. #25
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    I wonder if the police even asked the people at that address if they recognized him...


  11. #26
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    JusticeForAll I agree that maybe he once worked for the motel and maybe remembered the address - or maybe he worked in the shipping department of a company that used to send a lot of supplies (products like shampoo just as an example) to the hotel - he was so used to writing the address he could rattle it off from memory.

    Same for the name from the book. Maybe his best friend always called himself by that name - so he "stole" it when he was checking in. Maybe he used the name because he hated his English Lit teacher who failed him on an exam about that book. Maybe he had just read the book on a bus ride as another passenger had accidently left it behind.

    Sometimes the clues that are left behind are meaningless.

    Here are some things that we do know.

    1. He wanted to be anonymous.
    There was nothing of his but the clothes on his back, tooth paste and a tooth brush. No wallet, No id, no change of clothes, no coat, etc.. Where did he stash them? In a dumpster? A locker at the bus station? A vehicle? Checked baggage on a plane? Checking in under a false name underscores he tried to be anonymous... right?

    2. Clues about the teeth.
    He had had othodontic work done and had almost perfect teeth. He also had a tooth paste and tooth brush as his only "possessions". Could he have been a dentist? Or did he have them because he forgot he had removed them from his bag?

    3. He died a few days after September 11th. Had the hotel been unexpectedly busy after flights were grounded? Is there an airport nearby? Perhaps the location is simply because that's where his plane landed?

    4. Did he plan his suicide or was it a moment of opportunity? Many people plan to go to a hotel to commit suicide - that way they are sure their body will be found, and a family member doesn't find them. What if they were thinking about suicide anyway and found themselves in "perfect circumstances".

    5. Could someone have stolen his bag? Is it possible that he had brought someone back to his room and they stole everything he had (except for the cash in his pocket)? Someone already depressed from the events could have become even more depressed at the theft?

    I read a report about this case (don't know where as I can't find the reference) that said he carefully taped pillows to the wall so that it would minimize any noise. He would have had to buy or bring the tape with him.

    Lots to speculate about... few answers....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderingThings
    JusticeForAll I agree that maybe he once worked for the motel and maybe remembered the address - or maybe he worked in the shipping department of a company that used to send a lot of supplies (products like shampoo just as an example) to the hotel - he was so used to writing the address he could rattle it off from memory.

    Same for the name from the book. Maybe his best friend always called himself by that name - so he "stole" it when he was checking in. Maybe he used the name because he hated his English Lit teacher who failed him on an exam about that book. Maybe he had just read the book on a bus ride as another passenger had accidently left it behind.

    Sometimes the clues that are left behind are meaningless. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/ima...s/confused.gif

    Here are some things that we do know.

    1. He wanted to be anonymous.
    There was nothing of his but the clothes on his back, tooth paste and a tooth brush. No wallet, No id, no change of clothes, no coat, etc.. Where did he stash them? In a dumpster? A locker at the bus station? A vehicle? Checked baggage on a plane? Checking in under a false name underscores he tried to be anonymous... right?

    2. Clues about the teeth.
    He had had othodontic work done and had almost perfect teeth. He also had a tooth paste and tooth brush as his only "possessions". Could he have been a dentist? Or did he have them because he forgot he had removed them from his bag?

    3. He died a few days after September 11th. Had the hotel been unexpectedly busy after flights were grounded? Is there an airport nearby? Perhaps the location is simply because that's where his plane landed?

    4. Did he plan his suicide or was it a moment of opportunity? Many people plan to go to a hotel to commit suicide - that way they are sure their body will be found, and a family member doesn't find them. What if they were thinking about suicide anyway and found themselves in "perfect circumstances".

    5. Could someone have stolen his bag? Is it possible that he had brought someone back to his room and they stole everything he had (except for the cash in his pocket)? Someone already depressed from the events could have become even more depressed at the theft?

    I read a report about this case (don't know where as I can't find the reference) that said he carefully taped pillows to the wall so that it would minimize any noise. He would have had to buy or bring the tape with him.

    Lots to speculate about... few answers....
    The pillow thing is new and interesting- I wonder how many pillows "Robert's" hotel room had at the time he checked in...

    Now I am wondering what types of noise was he trying minimize...

    I was thinking- if he was a dentist, a dentist's office would recognize him as an employee and identify him by a photograph- did the Sheriff's Department go to dental offices to see if they recognized him if he had a specific dentist that he went to?

    "Robert" being a employee at a hotel I could see because he could remember the address or perhaps he had an excellent memory...

  13. #28
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    When a hanging occurs the body will spasm in its final throes. Since he used the closet area he probably felt the walls were too close and didn't want to give himself away.

  14. #29
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    For those that are inclined to learn more about suspension hanging here is Steven's thoughts on the subject. http://ash.spaink.net/suspension.html

    ITS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED
    - it does explain the "techniques" and "mindset" of some of the suicidal people though.

    I know the date at the bottom of the web page refers to the web page, not the date of the possible suicide but in my mind I've often wondered if this unidentified man was "Steven".
    ==>
    Last update: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 07:47



  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderingThings
    For those that are inclined to learn more about suspension hanging here is Steven's thoughts on the subject. http://ash.spaink.net/suspension.html

    ITS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED
    - it does explain the "techniques" and "mindset" of some of the suicidal people though.

    I know the date at the bottom of the web page refers to the web page, not the date of the possible suicide but in my mind I've often wondered if this unidentified man was "Steven".
    ==>
    Last update: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 07:47


    That "Steven" person could be him...

    Makes me wonder how "Robert" could set up a web page 5-6 days before his death and then kill himself later... I'll read the page further to find anything that might give any clues about "Robert" and who he might really be- but then "Steven" could be an alias too. Perhaps "Robert" had a history of giving false names and addresses, so that no-one knew who he was

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