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  1. #1
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    TX - Cameron Willingham executed for '91 murders of 3 daughters

    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

  2. #2
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    Wow, this is just a shame. A man who was executed could potentially be innocent. I suppose though if I lost my three daughters I probably wouldn't want to live, but I would at least try to clear my name.

    I find it incredible that it took fire investigators so long to realize that when you rapidly change the temperature of glass it can shatter. That goes both ways...if the glass is hot and you pour cold water on it it will shatter. If you have frozen glass and pour hot water on it it will shatter.

  3. #3
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    Criminal History: At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.

    Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."

    He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, *****." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.
    Welcome to the World Baby Caleb!!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    Criminal History: At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.

    Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."

    He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, *****." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.

    It is puzzling, at least to me, that he didn't murder his wife along with their three daughters.

    Jurisprudence in America lives by junk science and dies by junk science. Long live junk science, so say prosecutors.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge
    It is puzzling, at least to me, that he didn't murder his wife along with their three daughters.

    Jurisprudence in America lives by junk science and dies by junk science. Long live junk science, so say prosecutors.

    I thought he was innocent?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    Criminal History: At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.

    Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."

    He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, *****." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.
    This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man.

  7. #7
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    "This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man."


    I wonder if I were innocent and about to die from a painful injection that scared me - if I would sound wrongfully convicted or just freaked out.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    I thought he was innocent?

    Would you have convicted him on junk science?

    [P.S. You appear to have missed my (faint hint of) sarcasm.]
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudge
    Would you have convicted him on junk science?

    [P.S. You appear to have missed my (faint hint of) sarcasm.]

    I don't know if I would have convicted him or not, but I certainly don't want anyone who is innocent to even be in prison much less executed.

  10. #10
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    I think there ismore to the evidence then just the Arson science. Neighbors found him in yard when the house was smouldering but not yet "burning" . He made no effort to save his children tho he did manage once the house was aflame to save his car and that is just a cursory glance at the case.
    Welcome to the World Baby Caleb!!!


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard
    "This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man."


    I wonder if I were innocent and about to die from a painful injection that scared me - if I would sound wrongfully convicted or just freaked out.
    Well, I doubt I would be spending my last breath promising to come back from the dead to avenge myself, which this guy was doing. That's something you see in horror movies, usually by Freddy Krueger and the like.

    How you face your own mortality says a lot about a person. My father didn't want to die, not because he was afraid of dying, but because he felt there was so much more for him to do. But in the last few days, after far more excruiating pain than this a-hole got to experience, he accepted the inevitability of it, despite the unfairness of it all, and made his peace. My father didn't want to die, not because he was afraid of dying, but because he felt there was so much more for him to do. But in the last few days he accepted the inevitability of it, despite the unfairness of it all, and made his peace.

    And where did this crap about the injections being painful come from?
    This is the exact same method we chose to put down domestic animals that are in pain. I seriously doubt lethal injection is any more painful than when I had an IV inserted in the hospital. it's certainly not as painful as when they removed the catherter. And I KNOW its nowhere near as painful as burning to death.

    And even if this *was* junk science, it still doesn't mean the a-hole didn't kill his kids.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    I think there ismore to the evidence then just the Arson science. Neighbors found him in yard when the house was smouldering but not yet "burning" . He made no effort to save his children tho he did manage once the house was aflame to save his car and that is just a cursory glance at the case.



    Notwithstanding weak behavioral circumstantial evidence that cannot be said to be reliable or true. You appear, in my mind, to be missing the point. Trials are not used to determine the truth. Trials are a mechanism whereby a jury assesses reliable, valid and relevant evidence that will allow jurors (intelligent jurors not required and seldom desired by the prosecution) to assess "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".

    The output of junk science is not reliable evidence. Hence, reasoning from any such alleged inculpatory evidence to a "guilty" conclusion (verdict) would, at best, be fallacious reasoning.

    It's analogous to the GIGO principle; i.e., garbage in, garbage out.
    It's not what a man knows that makes him a fool, it's what he does know that ain't so. .... Josh Billings

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlitchWizard
    "This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man."


    I wonder if I were innocent and about to die from a painful injection that scared me - if I would sound wrongfully convicted or just freaked out.

    A painful injection? I've seen toddlers in cancer wards cry less over an injection than these big bad criminals.

  14. #14
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    What am I missing here? He's got a past record, he admitted to setting the fire, and his behavior at the fire backs up everything. Just because one piece of evidence may have been junk science doesn't change anything at all about the rest of it, and the rest of it sounds more than sufficient to convict on.

    Verdicts are not reversed because of any mistake, they're only reversed because of a mistake that would have changed the original judge or jury's verdict! That seems to be missing here.

  15. #15
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    "And where did this crap about the injections being painful come from?
    This is the exact same method we chose to put down domestic animals that are in pain. I seriously doubt lethal injection is any more painful than when I had an IV inserted in the hospital. "


    My pen pal is on Death Row right now, so I've been reading alot lately on the Death Penalty. There are monsters out there (and you all know as well as I do about each and every one of them) who I don't care if lethal injection hurts them or not - I believe torture should be an option for some people. However, in other cases, I don't believe the death penalty should be invoked.

    Animals who are put to sleep are never given the same drugs they use on Death Row executions. The reason is because it's been ruled to be inhumane, so it's illegal to use it on dogs. It's the drug (potassium?) that is painful, not the needle poking in itself.

    There is a morotorium on lethal injections in the state of Florida right now because they are trying to see if they can even bring up the arguement that it's cruel to do a lethal injection to kill someone.

    I'll look for it when I have a minute, but on May 2nd, there was a guy who actually said "It's not working, It's not working" when he was injected and then his vein collapsed (Not sure what State) and then he was literally in agony for the 14 minutes it took to find another vein and give him a second dose. People against the death penalty at all are using it now as an example of the cruelty of it.

    Personally, like I said, if someone does something bad enough - what do I care if it hurts? My thing is... if it were innocent me - I'd surely NOT want it to hurt! I'd be a blathering idiot.
    FUN... is a renewable resource!

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