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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldcaseman
    I should add that Lyle was very thin. If he lost weight, it was over a period of time. The skin was not loose or sagging. It's possible he lost the weight due to depression. The pathologist found nothing medically wrong with him.
    Good point


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldcaseman
    I should add that Lyle was very thin. If he lost weight, it was over a period of time. The skin was not loose or sagging. It's possible he lost the weight due to depression. The pathologist found nothing medically wrong with him.

    Were there any drugs, prescribed or otherwise in his system? Stomache contents?

    My question about tan lines on Lyle seems important to me. He appeared rather pale to me like he hadn't been outdoors for some time. His suicide was in the middle of September, where had he been that he didn't get tanned over the summer? Were his boots in good condition?

    You mentioned Lyle put a blanket over the window of his room. That seems weird unless the closet didn't have a door and he could have been seen from the outside. Weird anyway because the windows should of had blinds or curtains. Maybe he was paranoid or a paranoid schizophrenic? Maybe the lack of a tan means he had been hospitalized or possibly incarcerated for the months prior to his death? Maybe he had been holed up in his house or apartment because of mental illness? Major depression seems like a given, but maybe he had more serious mental problems.


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  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldcaseman
    Determining ethnic background by facial features can be unreliable. The pathologist suggested Native American or hispanic due to facial features as well as skin tone, but it's not an exacy science. Concerning the pants, I considered that Lyle just liked to wear larger sizes, but the belt tells a different story. All of the notches were stretched and worn, with the smallest size appearing to fit his waist. As he lost weight, he tightened his belt. My belts look similar, but it's because I'm expanding. I asked my wife to read the book and give me a synopsis. She informed me that Lyle considers and contemplates suicide, but doesn't go through with it. I miscommunicated that to the reporter. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to read the bok myself.
    This could be a long shot, but. If he did loose weight, could that be the key to finding out who he was? What was the belt size at its largest? You stated in another post that he might of lost weight slowly. Can it be determined how slow weight lost would take to bring him to the size at which he was found? Was there ever a drawing made of Lyle if he were 30 - 40 pounds heavier?

    I apologize if these questions have been asked before.



  5. #79
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    I'm leaning towards garden variety major depression. IMO he was too well-groomed and organized in his behavior to be psychotic.

    It's quite possible that the book was required for a college class:
    from the Heath Anology of American Literature
    She has a wide readership: her work is as likely to be found on an academic syllabus as on the best-seller list.

    A quick Google search shows that this text was required reading at:

    Community College of Philadelphia (English Dept) - May 1997
    University of Florida (English Dept) - american protest writing course - fall 2000

    That's all I could come up with - I'm sure there are more but it's a place to start.


  6. #80
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    How common do you guys think it is to be wearing a belt that was too big for you? Considering the rest of his clothing was nice, clean, good condition, and fit him?
    coldcaseman, you said that Lyle took a bus to the hotel? Did you ever find out where the buses had come from that might have brought him there? Did you then check with banks in those towns to see if he had made an ATM withdrawl? Checking the video tape of local ATMs? Usually those ATM machines will give out new crisp money because they are easier to fit into the machines.
    BTW, I am glad you are here. Very cool for us.


  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteWolf
    Maybe the lack of a tan means he had been hospitalized or possibly incarcerated for the months prior to his death? Maybe he had been holed up in his house or apartment because of mental illness? Major depression seems like a given, but maybe he had more serious mental problems.
    Good questions, but if he had been in jail, they would have prints.


  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteWolf
    Were there any drugs, prescribed or otherwise in his system? Stomache contents?

    My question about tan lines on Lyle seems important to me. He appeared rather pale to me like he hadn't been outdoors for some time. His suicide was in the middle of September, where had he been that he didn't get tanned over the summer? Were his boots in good condition?

    You mentioned Lyle put a blanket over the window of his room. That seems weird unless the closet didn't have a door and he could have been seen from the outside. Weird anyway because the windows should of had blinds or curtains. Maybe he was paranoid or a paranoid schizophrenic? Maybe the lack of a tan means he had been hospitalized or possibly incarcerated for the months prior to his death? Maybe he had been holed up in his house or apartment because of mental illness? Major depression seems like a given, but maybe he had more serious mental problems.
    Perhaps he had been a troubled teenager?


  9. #83
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    Hi Gardenmom,

    A bus went north from Aberdeen and a bus came down south from Port Angeles {most likely acc to CCM} and they both arrived about the same time. That time must have been close to the time he checked into the motel. That was on Friday I believe.

    The maid came to the room the next day probably around check-out time as they often do, and he told her he was going to stay a few extra days. I wonder if she cleaned the room for him that day? I'm wondering, because the next day when they found his body, there were two things in the wastebasket - a newspaper and a piece of paper with the word suicide written on it.

    So I'm wondering when he bought that paper and wrote that word. Were there envelopes and paper in the desk or drawer where he put his change? Did he bring the newspaper with him to the motel or go out and buy it after he got there? What was its date and which paper was it. Did it have an ad for the motel in it? Was there a place to mail the letter close by?

    If there was stationary there and he mailed a letter, he was out of his room walking around after he got there. The old Amanda Park Motel and RV Park is the only motel I have found in AP, and has now been purchased and turned into the Quinalt River Inn. But I did see in the old promo for the motel that is was close to a little store and restaurant. He could have walked over there. Nobody noticed him?

    The paper could tell what direction he came from. He had a slight Canadian accent, so I'm guessing he came down south from Port Angeles which would originate in Seattle, right? He could then be a Canadian indian. We could add 30-40 lbs to him and check Vancouver BC. Send that drawing to all the stores that sell furniture that are locally owned - It has only been 5 years, so someone might recognize him.

    Also it would be interesting to see if there are others who look like him up in Vancouver BC. Is there a large indian population there? I think so, having watched 'Da Vinci Inquest' a lot.

    Yesterday I read through the site on the missing posted here, and I did notice all the missing people from West Palm Beach Florida. I was amazed at how several of them looked very similar, and in fact went back and checked dates of discovery to make sure they were not the same person. They were different people. So maybe in certain areas the local people have a similar look. A real generalization, I know, but when my sister went to Bergen Norway, she said she saw many gals that looked almost exactly like me!

    A last thought: Someone who goes to a destination to commit suicide is probably going to be quite private and not wanting to socialize. He knows what he is about to do and can't let on to others about it. So for him to go out to buy a newspaper or then mail a letter after he was checked in seems strange to me. Would he want that person receiving it to see the postmark? Not if he came from out of the area to commit suicide, IMHO.

    Sometimes I think better when I'm writing! LOL



    Scandi


  10. #84
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    Hi again Gardenmom,

    About his belt, I just remembered that CCM said that is what he hung himself with. Acc to Steven and that suspension suicide article, the 'rope' has to be at least 3-4 times around the neck in length to work for strangulation. I'm guessing the belt was a long one if he had progressively moved up in notches to buckle it, so his belt was long enough.

    The belt must have had significance for him. Are we thinking it would take a year to lose 30 lbs or so? Maybe he had been contemplating suicide for at least that amount of time and all along planned to use his belt. Maybe every time he went down a notch he thought about it, and it could be one reason he was losing weight - to make his suicide easier to accomplish. Morbid thoughts, getting ready to snuff out your life! It is kind of hard to put yourself in his place because of that.


    Scandi


  11. #85
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    Oct 2005
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    long post

    Was there anything special about the belt that would help trace it to a particular country or region within a country? Was it made in the USA or in another country and was it commonly sold in the USA or elsewhere or both?
    Are pictures of the belt available? Was the belt of multi layer construction and if so were there any identifying marks on any of the layers? People sweat on a belt so was only his sweat,DNA, in the belt?
    *************
    He looks very like a transfer student I saw in my old high school a long time ago. Not the same person, just a similarity in features. I do not remember where his family was from or the last name- sorry. I will look for some similar pics on the web.
    *************
    Ok, the rest of this will be rank speculation and will range all over the place but I share the thoughts in hopes they might jog others to paths of thinking that might prove fruitful someday:

    If the belt and pants is the only indicator we have of his weight loss then I am not yet 100 % convinced he lost weight even if it might seem probable. He might have gotten both the pants and belt from a lover. Was his shirt also way too large for him (and what about under clothing,including any possible undershirt) or was it just the pants and belt?

    A belt is less likely to be given away than a pair of pants but not impossibly less likely as some people have more than one belt. But a belt and matching size pants makes it less likely that he got them from a free group and more liely that they were either his own to begin with or that he got them from one individual.
    ********
    Then there is the possibility of a break up that turned violent and deadly with the result that the belt and pants were available without the victems permission. I could see remorse and guilt possibly causing him to use the belt of his victem to hang himself while wearing the pants of the victem. It has a sort of odd sense of justice to it. One question, and problem, in that scenario is where is the other person, the victem?
    *********
    If he did lose wieght was it on purpose?

    Could he have lost weight to impress someone and when it did not win over the special someone or failed to help his love life then he became despondent and suicided and took his new self and his old self (via the old pants and belt) to the end at the same time?
    **********
    If he lost weight while indoors due to exerxise I wonder where he worked out, a college gym room on a tread mill perhaps? If he lost weight due to diet alone I would think there would be evidence of that in his heart and muscle fibers and other body parts.
    **********
    Out of control diabetes,alcoholism, drub abuse, depression, and hospitalization can also cause some weight loss, although so far no evidence of such condition recent to his date of death seems to have surfaced (other than the depression which led to his suicide.)
    **********
    Being pale means not much sun exposure so not an outdoor sports person (and also not someone who frequents a tanning salon as a customer.) and not an outdoor job. That eliminates a golf person I was looking into with the same first name.
    ***********
    Any evidence of psych meds in his system?
    ***********
    In meridian, at the time, there was a person of the same first name who was a CEO or main manager of a company and I wondered if he might of had a kid of the right age since 25 or so seems awfully young to be so high up in a corp. world and no mention was ever made on the company website of the head man leaving or being replaced.
    ***********
    Interesting but unneeded side bit of info:Lyle seems to be a name fairly common in Meridian,Idaho, at least I found several instances of the name tied to the town on the internet. So, although I question whether he was ever in that town, if you judge by the frequency of use of the name alone it is possible that he not only was there once as a visitor but could have been from that town.
    **********


  12. #86
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    Oct 2005
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    good work

    Quote Originally Posted by annemc2
    . . . A quick Google search shows that this text was required reading at:

    Community College of Philadelphia (English Dept) - May 1997
    University of Florida (English Dept) - american protest writing course - fall 2000

    That's all I could come up with - I'm sure there are more but it's a place to start.
    Very cool info.


  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwho3
    Was there anything special about the belt that would help trace it to a particular country or region within a country? Was it made in the USA or in another country and was it commonly sold in the USA or elsewhere or both?
    Are pictures of the belt available? Was the belt of multi layer construction and if so were there any identifying marks on any of the layers? People sweat on a belt so was only his sweat,DNA, in the belt?
    *************
    He looks very like a transfer student I saw in my old high school a long time ago. Not the same person, just a similarity in features. I do not remember where his family was from or the last name- sorry. I will look for some similar pics on the web.
    *************
    Ok, the rest of this will be rank speculation and will range all over the place but I share the thoughts in hopes they might jog others to paths of thinking that might prove fruitful someday:

    If the belt and pants is the only indicator we have of his weight loss then I am not yet 100 % convinced he lost weight even if it might seem probable. He might have gotten both the pants and belt from a lover. Was his shirt also way too large for him (and what about under clothing,including any possible undershirt) or was it just the pants and belt?

    A belt is less likely to be given away than a pair of pants but not impossibly less likely as some people have more than one belt. But a belt and matching size pants makes it less likely that he got them from a free group and more liely that they were either his own to begin with or that he got them from one individual.
    ********
    Then there is the possibility of a break up that turned violent and deadly with the result that the belt and pants were available without the victems permission. I could see remorse and guilt possibly causing him to use the belt of his victem to hang himself while wearing the pants of the victem. It has a sort of odd sense of justice to it. One question, and problem, in that scenario is where is the other person, the victem?
    *********
    If he did lose wieght was it on purpose?

    Could he have lost weight to impress someone and when it did not win over the special someone or failed to help his love life then he became despondent and suicided and took his new self and his old self (via the old pants and belt) to the end at the same time?
    **********
    If he lost weight while indoors due to exerxise I wonder where he worked out, a college gym room on a tread mill perhaps? If he lost weight due to diet alone I would think there would be evidence of that in his heart and muscle fibers and other body parts.
    **********
    Out of control diabetes,alcoholism, drub abuse, depression, and hospitalization can also cause some weight loss, although so far no evidence of such condition recent to his date of death seems to have surfaced (other than the depression which led to his suicide.)
    **********
    Being pale means not much sun exposure so not an outdoor sports person (and also not someone who frequents a tanning salon as a customer.) and not an outdoor job. That eliminates a golf person I was looking into with the same first name.
    ***********
    Any evidence of psych meds in his system?
    ***********
    In meridian, at the time, there was a person of the same first name who was a CEO or main manager of a company and I wondered if he might of had a kid of the right age since 25 or so seems awfully young to be so high up in a corp. world and no mention was ever made on the company website of the head man leaving or being replaced.
    ***********
    Interesting but unneeded side bit of info:Lyle seems to be a name fairly common in Meridian,Idaho, at least I found several instances of the name tied to the town on the internet. So, although I question whether he was ever in that town, if you judge by the frequency of use of the name alone it is possible that he not only was there once as a visitor but could have been from that town.
    **********
    Oohh- great info!!


  14. #88
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    Sep 2006
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    Washington
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    I'm sure glad I kept a copy of the case file. It has been awhile, and I was getting some of the facts twisted. I'll give you a timeline, and answer some of your questions. Lyle arrived at the motel on Friday, 9-14 aobut 4:30 PM. Two busses arrived at the location about the same time, and neither driver was sure if he was on board their bus. Lyle paid for one nights stay. The manager described him as polite, but didn't want to talk much. She thought he looked alittle spaced. He might have had a backpack, but the manager wasn't sure. He checked into unit#8 and took a shower. He complained that it was too noisy outside, so he was moved to unit#5. Sat. 9-15 the maid came to the door. He said that he was going to stay alittle longer, didn't need the room cleaned, but could use clean towels. Later in the day, the manager saw him pacing up and down the highway. She thought he was getting some exercise. On Sun 9-16 Lyle purchases the Sunday edition of the Daily World. The maid came by, and he sent her away. On Monday 9-17 in the morning the maid knocked on the door, but received no response. She entered the room and found him praying. He didn't talk to her, and she left. She later told the manager, who entered the room after noon and found that Lyle had hung himself. (for some reason I had recalled that he had been dead longer than that). When I arrived sometime later, rigor mortis was setting in. As for the questions: there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. The coat rack wasn't in an enclosed closet, but rather a small alcove in one corner of the living room. I never closely examined the belt, I'm making arrangements to do that. It is a leather belt with a silver colored buckly and a silver colored belt tip. It has a western look to it. I don't recall seeing any stationary in the room. That should keep you busy for awhile!


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  16. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldcaseman
    I'm sure glad I kept a copy of the case file. It has been awhile, and I was getting some of the facts twisted. I'll give you a timeline, and answer some of your questions. Lyle arrived at the motel on Friday, 9-14 aobut 4:30 PM. Two busses arrived at the location about the same time, and neither driver was sure if he was on board their bus. Lyle paid for one nights stay. The manager described him as polite, but didn't want to talk much. She thought he looked alittle spaced. He might have had a backpack, but the manager wasn't sure. He checked into unit#8 and took a shower. He complained that it was too noisy outside, so he was moved to unit#5. Sat. 9-15 the maid came to the door. He said that he was going to stay alittle longer, didn't need the room cleaned, but could use clean towels. Later in the day, the manager saw him pacing up and down the highway. She thought he was getting some exercise. On Sun 9-16 Lyle purchases the Sunday edition of the Daily World. The maid came by, and he sent her away. On Monday 9-17 in the morning the maid knocked on the door, but received no response. She entered the room and found him praying. He didn't talk to her, and she left. She later told the manager, who entered the room after noon and found that Lyle had hung himself. (for some reason I had recalled that he had been dead longer than that). When I arrived sometime later, rigor mortis was setting in. As for the questions: there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. The coat rack wasn't in an enclosed closet, but rather a small alcove in one corner of the living room. I never closely examined the belt, I'm making arrangements to do that. It is a leather belt with a silver colored buckly and a silver colored belt tip. It has a western look to it. I don't recall seeing any stationary in the room. That should keep you busy for awhile!
    thanks!!


  17. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by gardenmom
    Good questions, but if he had been in jail, they would have prints.
    Sometimes you can go unidentified and the prison's have your fingerprints- a good example of that is James Burton


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