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  1. #1
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    Teen jailed for her own safety, prosecutors say

    What's wrong with this picture? The victim is in jail and the perp is free:

    "Teen jailed for her own safety, prosecutors say"

    AKRON, Ohio (AP) -- A 14-year-old Ohio girl has been jailed nearly a week after failing to testify against a man accused of molesting her.

    Court records show the girl has requested a lawyer. But jail officials say she isn't permitted contact with anyone unless prosecutors approve.

    Prosecutors say the teen is a material witness and they want her jailed for her safety. A judge has ordered that she be held indefinitely.

    The girl failed to show earlier this month at the trial of a 20-year-old man, who's accused of having unlawful sexual conduct with her. He is free on bond.

    more at link http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/16/te....ap/index.html

  2. #2
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    I'm not so sure I agree with this. They let the molester out on bail and arrest the victim????

  3. #3
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    Something wrong with that...

    I agree Jeana....seems to me that they are just continuing to victimize the victim....poor girl must be pretty scared.

    TB

  4. #4
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    I am not that "familiar" with the law in the USA, but this girl is being held on a "material witness warrant".

    To ensure that she shows up for the man's trial and to ensure that no harm comes to her, if she is on the street, they have jailed her.

    From my take on this, the girl is 14, the man is 20, most likely she felt it was "consenual" but other did not and do not.

    She is a mere child of 14, he is an adult of 20.

    This is not to "punish" her, but to ensure that she is "available" for trial, as her testimony is "material and relevant" to putting her "abuser" behind bars.

    They will know exactly where she is when the trial starts. It could very well be that this girl is "scared" to death to go through with a statement and trial, that she has been "intimidated" or her friends and family intimidated to "encourage" her not to testify.

    If she is on the street, she may be harmed and if she is harmed, the charges against this man "will go away", so to ensure that she is "safe from harm" they have her in "protective custody".

    There may even be "gang" aspect here........

    Remember the Mary Ann Measels case...........she was a mere child of 13. That crime was "horrific" to say the least......she was a child and the rest of the accussed were adults.......now convicted murderers.

    But I do agree that the man should be behind bars...and the victim protected from harm........

  5. #5
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    Yes, that's right. Our justice system provides much protection for the accused and very little for the victims. She very likely won't testify against him no matter what. I tend to think that if this child was having a relationship with a 20-year old man, that there are most likely many problems at home with her family and that may not even be a suitable environment for her. Hopefully, they'll have other evidence that can be used during this trial should she decide that she won't testify.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberLaw
    I am not that "familiar" with the law in the USA, but this girl is being held on a "material witness warrant".

    To ensure that she shows up for the man's trial and to ensure that no harm comes to her, if she is on the street, they have jailed her.

    From my take on this, the girl is 14, the man is 20, most likely she felt it was "consenual" but other did not and do not.

    She is a mere child of 14, he is an adult of 20.

    This is not to "punish" her, but to ensure that she is "available" for trial, as her testimony is "material and relevant" to putting her "abuser" behind bars.

    They will know exactly where she is when the trial starts. It could very well be that this girl is "scared" to death to go through with a statement and trial, that she has been "intimidated" or her friends and family intimidated to "encourage" her not to testify.

    If she is on the street, she may be harmed and if she is harmed, the charges against this man "will go away", so to ensure that she is "safe from harm" they have her in "protective custody".

    There may even be "gang" aspect here........

    Remember the Mary Ann Measels case...........she was a mere child of 13. That crime was "horrific" to say the least......she was a child and the rest of the accussed were adults.......now convicted murderers.

    But I do agree that the man should be behind bars...and the victim protected from harm........
    I see what you're saying here.

    but the girl is in JAIL!

    yes, 'he' should be behind bars.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floh
    I see what you're saying here.

    but the girl is in JAIL!

    yes, 'he' should be behind bars.

    She's just not in jail. She's been denied an attorney. That will never sit right with me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeana (DP)
    She's just not in jail. She's been denied an attorney. That will never sit right with me.
    I agree with you. I understand what cyberlaw posts above about her being held as a material witness. But being denied an attorney???

    Hoppy

  9. #9
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    www.courttv.com

    A 14-year-old girl who ran away to avoid testifying against a man accused of molesting her has been jailed for a week and denied access to an attorney, officials and court records said.

    The girl failed to show up May 8 at the trial of 20-year-old Galo Sanchez-Pesantes. She was taken into custody a day later when her mother found her and called police.

    Prosecutors said the teen is a material witness. They wanted her jailed "so that she is not on the streets where we can't find her or she's doing things she shouldn't be doing,".

    If the girl cooperated with LE, had made a statement, showed up for trial, then of course she would not be held on a material witness warrant.

    Because after all "justice" would not be "obstructed" by her behaviour.

    But, she made "choices for herself", the resulting consequences of those choices is being held as a material witness. She is under no "duress".

    She does not see herself as a "victim" as her actions and behaviour do not support that conclusion.

    www. fas.org

    Under the Federal material witness statute our government is authorized to arrest a witness in order to secure his/her testimony in a criminal proceeding. In order to obtain a material witness warrant, the government must establish that the witness has information that is material to a criminal proceeding, and that it may become impracticable to secure the witness's presence at the proceeding by a subpoena.

    The material witness law was intended to ensure the appearance of
    witnesses in those rare cases where they might otherwise flee to avoid
    testifying in a criminal proceeding.

    Why would this girl need a lawyer/attorney?

    She has already proven that she will not show up for trial......... the only advice a lawyer can give her "is to show up for trial and not run away" but that will be of little consequence because she has proven that she will run away to the "streets" where she will not "easily" be found, rather then show up for trial to put a pervert behind bars.

    She brought this on herself..........her own choices, her own personal responsibility and accountability.

  10. #10
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    Because

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberLaw

    A 14-year-old girl who ran away to avoid testifying against a man accused of molesting her has been jailed for a week and denied access to an attorney, officials and court records said.

    Why would this girl need a lawyer/attorney?

    She brought this on herself..........her own choices, her own personal responsibility and accountability.
    <sigh> She needs an attorney because in a judicial system that is sometimes corrupt, sometimes imperfect, sometimes unjust, and sometimes mistaken, her interests need to be protected. That's why.

    She's been molested and yet you say, "She brought this on herself..........her own choices, her own personal responsibility and accountability" ? <shudder>

    Hoppy


  11. #11
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    Cyber, as you're aware, just showing up at the trial won't mean much if she won't talk. They're certainly not going to torture her into testifying. If she's not going to talk, she's not going to talk. Putting her in jail just might make her even more determined NOT to help the prosecution.

    As to why she would require an attorney? She's in jail. She's entitled to one.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberLaw
    www.courttv.com

    A 14-year-old girl who ran away to avoid testifying against a man accused of molesting her has been jailed for a week and denied access to an attorney, officials and court records said.

    The girl failed to show up May 8 at the trial of 20-year-old Galo Sanchez-Pesantes. She was taken into custody a day later when her mother found her and called police.

    Prosecutors said the teen is a material witness. They wanted her jailed "so that she is not on the streets where we can't find her or she's doing things she shouldn't be doing,".

    If the girl cooperated with LE, had made a statement, showed up for trial, then of course she would not be held on a material witness warrant.

    Because after all "justice" would not be "obstructed" by her behaviour.

    But, she made "choices for herself", the resulting consequences of those choices is being held as a material witness. She is under no "duress".

    She does not see herself as a "victim" as her actions and behaviour do not support that conclusion.

    www. fas.org

    Under the Federal material witness statute our government is authorized to arrest a witness in order to secure his/her testimony in a criminal proceeding. In order to obtain a material witness warrant, the government must establish that the witness has information that is material to a criminal proceeding, and that it may become impracticable to secure the witness's presence at the proceeding by a subpoena.

    The material witness law was intended to ensure the appearance of
    witnesses in those rare cases where they might otherwise flee to avoid
    testifying in a criminal proceeding.

    Why would this girl need a lawyer/attorney?

    She has already proven that she will not show up for trial......... the only advice a lawyer can give her "is to show up for trial and not run away" but that will be of little consequence because she has proven that she will run away to the "streets" where she will not "easily" be found, rather then show up for trial to put a pervert behind bars.

    She brought this on herself..........her own choices, her own personal responsibility and accountability.
    I completely disagree with that.
    If she was responisble and and accountable then why bother prosecuting the guy? I think the reason he is being prosecuted is because he took advantage of a 14 YO thereby implying even if she agreed that she is not old enough to make responsible decisions.

  13. #13
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    She needs an attorney because in a judicial system that is sometimes corrupt, sometimes imperfect, sometimes unjust, and sometimes mistaken, her interests need to be protected. That's why.

    She is not under arrest, a judge has issued an order for a "material witness warrant. There has to be a "compelling" case to hold her as a material witness as she is losing her liberty, without being under arrest.

    She is not under any "relief" by means of bail or bond, she has no arraignment on "charges", as she is not being held under any criminal charge or again arrest. A lawyer deals with the law, a defence attorney deals with "criminal DEFENDENTS", so again, please enlighten me, as to what the heck a lawyer should do for her, and what area of law this lawyer practices in.


    Because if I was her attorney I would be extremely hard pressed to "explain" and "persuade" a judge to lift the material witness warrant and let her out.

    You Honor, just because my client has refused to cooperate with LE, refused to give a statement, is hostile, ran away to the streets at 14 instead of attending trial, does not mean that she will "repeat" this behaviour. Your Honor, pretty please, she "promises" to show up for trial, you have "her word" that she will, and if she "breaks" her word, oh well. I guess the defendent in the trial will go free, which is exactly what she wants.

    So just let her out and we will "cross our fingers" that she shows up for trial.....if she does not show up, well a pervert is free to roam the streets and victimize other children.........

    Jeana is 100% correct in the statement that she cannot be "forced" to testify. If she refuses to answer questions, she will be held in contempt and again "re-jailed" until the contempt is purged. There is no defence to contempt. The judge issues an order, just like a material witness order. You are in contempt of "the court of law" and the Judge will find you in contempt and you will be held.......until you "choose" to purge the contempt. That could be one day, or one year, or two years or...........


    She may be deemed a "hostile" witness, which gives the Prosecution more leeway in questioning.......

    Again if it is proven that she lied under oath, then she may be "charged with perjury, in which case she will require a "criminal" defense attorney that "will defend her on criminal charges".


    She's been molested and yet you say, "She brought this on herself..........her own choices, her own personal responsibility and accountability" ?


    You seem to be "mistaken". When I say she brought this on herself, she did so by "hitting" the streets and not attending trial, she made that choice, she is responsible for her own "personal" accountability and responsibility in regards to her "choices and behaviour" in not attending trial.

    I did not say, nor would say, ever, that she is responsible for the "victimization of her by an adult". She is a mere child........she is unable to consent and the age difference of 6 years between her and the "defendent" is relevant. She is a child, he is an adult.


    I would not blame a child (or anyone else who is victimized), for being taken advantage of, victimized, harmed by an adult( or anyone) because again who is the adult and who is the child.


    She has no "interests" LE does and society does as a whole to ensure this man is held accountable for his "criminal conduct" and that he is removed from society for a period of time so he will not victimize other children and be punished for his conduct.


    What interests does she have in the outcome of this case. The only interest she has is directly opposed to the interests of LE and society. She is acting in her own interest and that of the "criminal" when she "choose" to run away and not attend trial.


    Jailing her on a material witness warrant ensures "that she cannot manipulate" the criminal proceeding and "on her own choice" ensure a criminal goes free to victimize other children.




  14. #14
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    "You seem to be "mistaken". When I say she brought this on herself, she did so by "hitting" the streets and not attending trial, she made that choice, she is responsible for her own "personal" accountability and responsibility in regards to her "choices and behaviour" in not attending trial."



    I am sure at 14 she did NOT choose these things. More likely she has crap for parents ..Maybe confusing sex as attention and a need to be loved coupled with a low self esteem?
    This was not her choice. SHe did not choose loosers as parents.

    Edit to add: So she did not show up to prosecute this person whom she possibly in her confused immature mind loves??
    I thought the point of the law was to defend and protect those in society ..
    Who is protecting this girl? And where the hell were they for 14 years during which she came to this...

  15. #15
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    I am sure at 14 she did NOT choose these things. More likely she has crap for parents ..Maybe confusing sex as attention and a need to be loved coupled with a low self esteem?
    This was not her choice. SHe did not choose loosers as parents.


    No one chooses their parents, why don't you use this "logic" the next time a 14 year old sells drugs, or rapes a child, or kills an 8 year old, or plants a bomb in a school, or molests a baby, or takes guns to school to shoot up his classmates.

    Or a College student rapes a women because she did not want to date him.

    Or robs a bank because his parents are too poor for that IPOD.

    Or steals a car because his parents only have one car and he does not have one for his own use.

    Or he cheats on his exams...........lies on his job application.....oh I forgot he/she has lousy parents, that explains it all. NOT.

    Do we say: Boo Hoo, maybe this was not his choice, he after all did not choose his parents and he has losers as parents, therefore he/she is not responsible for their choices in life. Please, society does not co-parent children, that is the job of the parents, good and bad........

    Her mother phoned the Police when his child was finally found after running away at 14 to "hit the street", I would also assume that her parents were the ones that reported this "pervert" to the cops.

    Oh I forgot, he likes children, because of bad parenting, not by his choice......

    Edit to add: So she did not show up to prosecute this person whom she possibly in her confused immature mind loves??

    She may love him, but again, she is a child.......adults have the "presence" of mind to act in the interest of this child(by protecting her from herself) and society, as you said again, this is a child, she does not, nor could not consent to relations with an adult.

    I would "assume" that adults are a tad smarter then a 14 year old child.

    Confused I think not, she knew what she was doing was "protecting" her abuser., opps the man she may love......so does that make it O.K. to allow her to act against the interests of society......and allow a criminal to go free.

    I thought the point of the law was to defend and protect those in society .

    Yes, that is why a criminal is arrested, and brought to trial. LE is acting for all of society, the public and enforcing the law to get a criminal off the street.

    This girl is not working towards this goal, as her "idea" is to "thwart" the law and the future protection of all in society from this man.

    She is in no way shape or form doing anything to act in the interest of society, she is acting in the best interest of the criminal and herself.

    A child cannot nor anyone else(except LE/DA) "pick and choose" who they want to be brought to justice.

    LE is bringing this man to trial and ensuring that he is brought to trial, by jailing this girl on a material witness warrant.

    Who is protecting this girl? And where the hell were they for 14 years during which she came to this.

    Well she is jailed under a material witness warrant for her own protection, unless there was "allegations of abuse, neglect, 14 years ago or during the 14 years, who the heck is responsible for her, let me see, the people who conceived her and the mother who gave birth to her.

    If the child was in need of protection, during the 14 years, then DCS would be involved........

    Heck DCS has enough problems protecting children who are in need of protection, let alone a "wayward" child.

    No one can step over a parent rights to raise or rear their child any way they want, unless harm is or has come to the child.

    No one can "second" guess another parent in regards to their child or "tell them how to raise them" because again who does the child belong to: Her mother and Father, who is responsible for this child, not society, but her parents.......

    What about the adult criminal who has "bad" parents, and now he has murdered 12 women....boo hoo, lets blame his parents for his behaviour.. this might be a mitigating factor in sentencing, but not an "excuse" for criminal behavior.

    Everyone has choices....both good and bad....everyone has judgement both good and bad.

    When my youngest blamed the dog for "polishing" off a huge piece of cake, we had a long talk........about choices and responsibility.

    I told her, well the dog did not open the fridge, take out the cake, get a plate from the cupboard, open the drawer and take out a fork and sit down to eat the cake.......

    Well apparently I am a "mean Mommy" because I would not allow her to eat the cake before dinner......you see I know better then a child as I am the adult..

    Just like in this case, the adults know and are more mature then this child....she has no idea of whom this man may victimize next.

    LE and society is not going to "risk" allowing this criminal to go free because of an immature, confused, 14 year old child decides so.......

    But the adults know that he will victimize another child, so they are acting in the best interests of this child to keep her away from him and all of the children in society.

    That is called "enforcing the law" for the protection of children and society as a whole.......

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