Online Predators

I would like to dedicate this thread to victims of online abduction. While I currently have none to post, I am a student working on a 15 week analysis on "Online Predators"...In case some of you aren't aware this is an ever growing problem. I have posted exerts from my rough draft which I hope to smooth out and create a whole site revolving around internet safety.

"
Prior to 1995, sexual predators would find their prey by seeking employment as scout leaders, priests, teachers, clowns, and even bus drivers. They would take advantage of their employment positions to observe and place themselves where children frequented. Some would look for predator networks to connect themselves with other predators. This would allow one predator to communicate with other predators and pass information to each other. They also lurked around playgrounds, parks, daycares, schools, and even our homes. Some would often follow children or rather stalk them on their way home from school or a friend’s house to locate their residence for future abductions

No longer do predators have to roam streets or sit patiently observing our children. They are already in our homes in front of our children and have been for years. What was once considered a local sex offender has morphed into what is now known as an “Online Predator”.

We as a society depend on curfews and strict rules to protect our children from predators. We hide in denial and lack to speak to our kids about the potential dangers of their actions online. As a society, we must acknowledge the severity of this growing trend. As parents, we must begin educating our children more and more on internet safety, the importance of giving out personal information, and define a sexual solicitation. Therefore, children can begin to understand when they are solicited, and how to report and log that activity. Many children each year are solicited online and do not realize the severity of the solicitation or the dangers behind meeting someone off the internet. No longer is telling a child not to talk to strangers or take gifts from them a preventative measure. We must ensure that they understand and are able to comprehend that predators will not always ask and they will lie about their age, locations, and character. They will attempt to please the child in any way shape or form to gain that aspect of trust needed.

Before the explosion of the digital age, predators were restricted to places of employment and places they knew children frequented. In the early years, a predator would have to plan abductions taking precautions to not be caught. Predators usually thought out their attempts for abductions and solicitations. They would observe areas common for children and the absence of parents. Usually predators employed careful observation of children that were easy targets, and marked some for future victims. Children walking home alone, playing away from the rest of the group, or even asleep in their own home were all potential prey. Now all a predator has to do is click ‘connect’ and they are linking to billions of potential prey.


This is where predators can pull the wool over our children’s eyes, because they study teens, their habits, their language, and can reach them on levels that their own parents cannot. They can easily lie about their age, appearance, hobbies, family, friends, and often provide pictures of younger teens to support this. They are able to “troll” internet chat rooms often posing as teens without being detected. "


Some stats from my analysis:

- "At any given moment, there is an estimate of 50,000 predators online trolling the chat rooms for young victims for sexually solicition."


- "Since 2002, Internet usage among teens 13-17 years old has only rose 12%. While 38% more of children 6-8 years old are utilizing the Internet, we see a 30% increase in 9-12 year old usage. In that same year, one in five children were sexually solicited online. That means that an older adult approached them with explicit sexual questions or material. Usually these solicitations are not limited to questions about sexual experience, curiosities, child *advertiser censored*, and an attempt to gain personal information."


- "In the same year, statistics show one in thirty-three children were asked to meet with a stranger; spoke on the telephone to a stranger; or were sent money or gifts to their home address."


- "In a survey done with 1500 children, 55% of them admitted to giving out personal information online. While most teens may joke about meeting friends from the internet 10% of them admitted to meeting face to face with some one they met online. Amazingly, 25% of those surveyed saw nothing wrong with meeting a stranger online. Out of the children surveyed, only 8% of those children were willing to actually meet someone they spoke with online. Children often claim that strangers on the Internet are easier to talk to. They also do not recognize the potential lies that a predator can tell them regarding their age. They find it hard to comprehend that the thirteen year old they think they are talking to could actually be a forty-five year old sexual predator. What comes as more of a shock to parents, is that as many as 21% of those same children stated that after brief conversation, they believed the age of the stranger"


- "In recent studies, it shows that 52% of children prefer to be alone while using the Internet with 38% of parents allowing such privacy. Most parents allow teens to place their own personal computers in their rooms or allow the family computer to be isolated away from supervision. "


- "Only 17 % of youth and 10 % of parents could name a specific authority to report sexual solicitations. This list included reporting it to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, CyberTipline, or their Internet Service Provider "





"Parents should take the time to see where their children frequent and what information their children are allowing strangers to see. They should take the time to explain what a solicitation consists of and talk about potential internet dangers. They should explain what to and what not to report. They should explain that anything that makes the child feel uneasy or unsafe should be reported to their parents immediately as it happens and they should not close the im window or chat window so that parents can see what is going on."

Online predators:​

What you can do to minimize the risk

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/kidpred.mspx#ERD

Report cyberstalking, Internet harassment, child *advertiser censored* and other cybercrimes here. Get help 24/7. Read the latest news about cyberstalking.
http://wiredsafety.org/index.html
​

iSafe (2005)
url: http://www.isafe.org

NCMEC (2005) . NationalCenter for Missing & Exploited Children

url: http://www.missingkids.com

Some of these might overlap with the above, might they are good a need read:

STATISTICS

One in five U.S. teenagers who regularly log on to the Internet say they have received an unwanted sexual solicitation via the Web. Solicitations were defined as requests to engage in sexual activities or sexual talk, or to give personal sexual information.
- Crimes Against Children Research Center (A study conducted in 2000)

25% of children have been exposed to unwanted pornographic material online.
- Crimes Against Children Research Center

Only 1/3 of households with Internet access are actively protecting their children with filtering or blocking software.
- Center for Missing and Exploited Children

75% of children are willing to share personal information online about themselves and their family in exchange for goods and services.
- eMarketer

Only approximately 25% of children who encountered a sexual approach or solicitation told a parent or adult.
- Crimes Against Children Research Center

A study conducted for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children showed that 75% of children who were approached sexually on the Internet did not tell their parents. The author of the study, David Finkelhor, said: "They were afraid of losing their computer privileges."

One in 33 youth received an aggressive sexual solicitation in the past year. This means a predator asked a young person to meet somewhere, called a young person on the phone, and/or sent the young person correspondence, money, or gifts through the U.S. Postal Service.
- Youth Internet Safety Survey

77% of the targets for online predators were age 14 or older. Another 22% were users ages 10 to 13.
- Crimes Against Children Research Center

Only 17 percent of youth and 11 percent of parents could name a specific authority, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), CyberTipline, or an Internet service provider, to which they could report an Internet crime.
-Youth Internet Safety Survey

We have learned, through surveys, that at least 12% of the teen girls polled admitted to meeting Internet strangers offline. Family PC Magazine, although no longer being published, surveyed teenagers and found in 2001 that 14% of the boys polled and 24%! Of the girls polled admitted to meeting Internet strangers offline. When we conduct informal polls at schools, we learn that the percentage of teens over 13 that admit to meeting Internet strangers offline is always at least 13%. What does this mean? It means that our teens are meeting strangers offline. What percentage are predators and what percentage are cute and wonderful teens (as hoped for when our teens meet them offline)? Who knows? The best answer is "too many."

TRUE STORY (An Every Parent must read, notice the information given)

Tiffany Peterson grabbed her backpack from the bench, tossed her mitt into it, and turned and waved to her teammates. She rushed off, hoping to catch Timbo5 before he had to get offline for dinner. She turned the key in the lock and rushed through the door, and it slammed behind her. "Mom! I'm home!" she shouted as she took the stairs two at a time. She had only five minutes before she knew he had to get offline.

Just another minute as she signed on as "Shortstopteen"- there he was! Right where he always was-in their favorite teen chat room, Teen Sports.

Shortstopteen: Hi Timbo. Guess what? We won!

Timbo5: Hi Shortstop. What was the score?

Shortstopteen: 9 to 7! I caught the last ball! The tying runs were on base! It puts us into the play-offs.

Timbo5: kewl. Who do you play next week?

Shortstopteen: Randolph Township, the Tiggers. They were the state champs last year. It'll be a tough game.

Timbo5: Are you still playing second base?

Shortstopteen: Nope. I convinced the coach to let me play shortstop. ;-) [You'll understand this when you get to the "Netiquette" section.]

Timbo5: What happened to the last shortstop?

Shortstopteen: She moved to Texas. And the coach said that his best shortstops have all been blonde. So I got it! ;-)

Timbo5: Great! Congrats. Gotta go. Mom's calling me for dinner. See ya tomorrow.

Shortstopteen: k. CU L8R ["O.K.. . . . see you later," for you newbies out there.]

Tiffany chatted with a few other friends for a while and then logged off. Timbo5 was her favorite online friend. He was fourteen, just like Tiffany, and lived in Virginia. He played baseball, too. He played first base, though. He also wanted to play for the major leagues when he grew up. Tiffany hoped that by the time she grew up, women could play for the major leagues, too. Although she didn't even know his real name, and he didn't know hers, she knew lots about him. He was much more fun than most of the other kids in the chat room. He knew everything about baseball. She wished he lived closer to New Jersey, so they could go to Yankee games together.

And Timbo5 really cared about her, always warning her not to tell anyone her real name or address. It was nice that he cared, but Tiffany already knew not to share any personal information. Her parents and her teachers had all discussed this with her and the other kids. She was very careful never to give out anything that could help anyone find her in "rl" (real life, offline). Her mother called her, and she ran down the stairs to dinner to share the good news with her family about the playoffs and her lucky catch.

The following week, Tiffany had practice every day. Somehow things didn't feel right, though. It was as though someone was following her. She kept looking over her shoulder when she walked home, and it was starting to get dark earlier. She found herself picking up her pace, and was winded when she arrived home. She unlocked the door quickly and looked around. Although she didn't see anyone, she was very uncomfortable. She didn't even shout "Hello" to her Mom, and just ran up the stairs to her computer.

Shortstopteen: Hi Timbo . . .

Timbo5: Hi Shortstop, what's up?

Shortstopteen: I was nervous today. Must be the pre-playoff excitement. Thought someone was watching me on the way home.

Timbo5: Did you see anyone following you?

Shortstopteen: Nope. But it felt weird. Like I could feel someone watching me . . . but no one was there anytime I looked.

Timbo5: Are your parents home?

Shortstopteen: Yup. It's okay. Probably just pre-game jitters. ;-)

Timbo5: You haven't told anyone online where you live or your real name or anything, have you?

Shortstopteen: You know that I'm very careful. You lecture me all the time! You're starting to sound like my parents! ;->

Timbo5: oh!oh! Gotta stop that!

Shortstopteen: LOL [laughing out loud]

Timbo5: ROFLOL . . . [rolling on the floor laughing out loud]

Tiffany forgot her fear and chatted until dinner was ready. The next day was the big game. Tiffany played really well, hit the only home run, and the team won, advancing to the finals. When she got home that night, she logged on and told Timbo5 about her big win, and complained that they had practice the next day.

When Tiffany was warming up, tossing the baseball around on the field at the next day's practice, she looked up at the stands and saw a man sitting there looking right at her. She felt the same fear and discomfort she had when walking home a few nights before. She glanced up at him from time to time, but soon forgot him when practice got going. When practice was over, she remembered the man, but looked up to find him gone. She took a deep breath and started the long walk home.

This time, she was sure someone was following her. She kept looking around, and although she didn't see anyone, she was really scared. She took the long way home, because it was busier and better lit, but wished she were already safe and sound in her home. Once, when she looked in the storefront window, she saw a reflection of someone she thought might be the man in the stands, but when she turned around no one was there. But she was sure she had recognized him. At one point she even heard footsteps.

As she neared her block, she broke into a run. It sounded like the footsteps were speeding up, too, and she ran even faster. She unlocked the door and slammed it shut. Her mother, alarmed at the noise, walked into the living room from the kitchen. "Are you okay, Tiff?" she asked. "You look upset." Tiffany caught her breath, and said that she was just in a rush to get home.

When she took the stairs this time, she took them slowly, thinking while she climbed. She really had to talk to Timbo5. She was very scared. But when she logged on, Timbo5 wasn't in the chat room. She sent him an instant message, and saw that he wasn't even online. Just when she really needed him the most!

The doorbell rang. She heard her mother get it and heard a male voice. A few minutes later, her mother and father called her down. She was still trying to figure out how to tell her parents about her fear without alarming them. She was so afraid that they might take her computer away if they thought she might have given out personal-contact information online. When she climbed down the stairs, her thoughts were elsewhere.

Her parents were seated in the living room with a man-the one whom she had seen in the bleachers. She started to worry. "Tiffany, please sit down. This is Sergeant Thompson of the state police." Tiffany looked at her parents' worried faces.

"Hi, Shortstopteen," said the sergeant. Tiffany couldn't figure out how he knew her chat room name. "I'm Timbo5," he said. She couldn't believe her ears. Timbo5? This police officer? Timbo5 was only fourteen, and lived in Virginia.

"Let me explain," he said, and proceeded to tell her that he worked undercover in chat rooms trying to protect children from online predators. "But how did you find me?" Tiffany asked. "I never gave you my real name or any real information."

"Even though you never gave me your name, per se, you gave me lots of other information about you. You gave me the name of the team you were playing this week for the playoffs. It was simple enough for me to check and see which state had baseball champs from Randolph Township named the Tiggers. Then I called the Randolph Township school and found out which team they were playing this week in the play-offs. Then I checked the roster in the local paper and got your name as the team shortstop and confirmed that it was you by checking your name as the home run hitter at the final season game. I looked up all the Petersons online in the White Pages directory, and found your address and telephone number. I called your parents and told them what I had planned."

Tiffany was stunned. How could this forty-year-old man sitting in front of her be her friend Timbo5? Besides, the police officer said he was from New Jersey, too. How could that be when Timbo5 was from Virginia?

She knew who Timbo5 was because he told her things about himself. And she didn't take his word for it, she checked him out. He had an online profile she checked that said he loved baseball, was fourteen years old, and lived in Virginia. That was written proof!

But Tiffany started paying attention when Sergeant Thompson explained how he had written his profile just to help convince her of his false identity. He then explained that he had followed her home, after spotting her on the field, as the blonde shortstop.

"I did this to help you," he said. "A friend of mine had a fourteen year- old daughter who gave out too much information to a stranger who showed up at her house one day and killed her. Since then I've vowed to teach others how to make sure they don't give away information without realizing it."

Tiffany now realized that she had fallen into the same trap as Sergeant Thompson's friend's daughter. She thought about all the little details she had given away that allowed her to be found in real life. Sergeant Thompson looked at her. "Will you help me help other kids and teach them what you just learned?" Tiffany gave her word that she would. And she and her parents were overwhelmed with gratitude that Tiffany had avoided tragedy and learned this lesson the "easy" way.

That gave me the goosebumps. thank you so much for posting this!

Last night Dateline had a segment about online predators.

THey in conjuction with an online watch group pretended to be young teens home alone.
When the pervs showed up they instead of the expected teen found Dateline and were arrested once they left the house. It made my skin crawl to watch it.

Yes I've watched it. I used to visit their site until I started this project and started talking law enforcement about it. Really they are a vigelante group. I asked everyone I could find in this field how to help, become trained, and get your foot in the door. They all said I would need ICAC training. The group on tv doesn't have that as far as I know, yet they were allowed to TRAIN FL LE and call themselves experts. I strongly suggest that no one try to setup a sting themselves. Let LE handle it. After this project I don't agree 100% with what their doing when they're not on dateline. Are these stings a good prevenative measure consider alot of the men had saw the stings, or been in trouble before. Its like some went from our streets to the internet where they can atleast be caught easier and now they are going to go back to our streets. :waitasec:

Look at the hold we have on child *advertiser censored* on the internet. We're just NOW starting to really crack down on it. With 50,000 predators on line at any given time can we really afford to "work less than a part time basis" (quoted by Westerville, PD) They're excuse is resources...I say train some civillians who want to work in law enforcement to assist in these investigations. As a CJ student, I don't want to become a cop, but I do want to work in cyber crimes and child exploitation, I am basically being told I can't unless I get ICAC training and become a cop I can't help.. PJ's aren't cops, nor do they have ICAC training. . u tell me what smells fishy there. With over 13 yrs of experience on the computer, I have been stone walled by LE in any attempt to determine what educational path I should follow to get a toe moreless a foot in the door. So where do you go when LE doesn't take you seriously? When they take the names and logs of 11 predators and pretend like they aren't going to trash it...but obviously do.

You write a letter to your state rep, like I did. Who then forwards it onto another state rep.:innocent:

Then you write your local sheriff's dept, like I did (still waiting on response)
I've also wrote ICAC, NCMEC, and ICE. (no response to my inquiry, just a run around)

So where do you take all the information that you have been ignored by LE?

I dunno, but Chris Hansen pops into mind :angel:

Dex said:

Yes I've watched it. I used to visit their site until I started this project and started talking law enforcement about it. Really they are a vigelante group. I asked everyone I could find in this field how to help, become trained, and get your foot in the door. They all said I would need ICAC training. The group on tv doesn't have that as far as I know, yet they were allowed to TRAIN FL LE and call themselves experts. I strongly suggest that no one try to setup a sting themselves. Let LE handle it. After this project I don't agree 100% with what their doing when they're not on dateline. Are these stings a good prevenative measure consider alot of the men had saw the stings, or been in trouble before. Its like some went from our streets to the internet where they can atleast be caught easier and now they are going to go back to our streets. :waitasec:

Click to expand...

HaHa! Intersting how many LE are able to get convictions from the internet to show up to meet underage girls with ICAC training.


Perverted-Justice is not a vigilante group. There are about 50 members who are trained before they can do these busts.

In fact, they have over 50 convictions. They have Information First agreements that cover over half of the United States. They use the most current technology, including but not limited to the fact chats are recorded real time on a third person proxy server. The 'busts' are phone verified. You can read more here, but I'll share a little from the FAQs page:

We have created several new technologies ensuring that our work is court-credible. To date, challenges to the evidence we can present have been denied, as we often have tools that some law enforcement does not have. For example, each conversation we have with a wannabe pedophile is double-recorded. Since we foresaw the possibility of a defense attorney trying a wackjob "conspiracy" defense, we decided to make such a defense so out-of-this-world that no jury would buy it. When a contributor logs onto Yahoo, their conversations are automatically recorded in an encrypted format not only on that contributor's computer, but a secure server located in another state. A server that the individual contributor cannot get access to. That means that every keystroke is captured in picturesque condition on two different computers.
<snip>

Additionally, we are sure to capture all webcam images, even sometimes recording entire webcam sessions to AVI in order to preserve a record of what actually happened. We use underage sounding phone verifiers to confirm the phone numbers as being legitimately used by the person in question. That creates a "two person" scenario where both people, the contributor having the chat, and the verifier having the phone conversation can testify as to the intent of the individual who is being charged. Lastly, we also use other forms of evidence-collection that we cannot reveal, except to interested law enforcement as we're not apt to give up all our tricks and technology up publicly.

Click to expand...

The LE in Laguna Beach requested that Perverted-Justice do a non-media bust at a local house. Obviously they feel that the contributersr at Perverted-Justice are trained well.

The last three Dateline locations were co-ordinated with LE. These three different LE departments felt the Contributers were trained well enough. When men left after the interview, they were arrested on the spot. In other cases, LE has asked Perverted-Justice to train them.

A. First, if you are actual law enforcement, we ask you to read the following page which sums up our efforts and attitude nicely: Information for Police

For everyone else, our policy is to work with law enforcement whenever possible. We've created the "Information First" program to interface with police in a smooth and unobtrusive way. Information First is very simple. If a law enforcement department, detective or agency wants the "Information First", they email us, we speak with them on the phone, and work out the details of jurisdiction and what they'd like to see out of the chat-logs we do. Then, we make a note for the Contributors of where Information First contacts are, what areas they cover and how to get ahold of them. Contributors then work Information First areas and turn over the information, first, to the already-stated interested and proactive police contact in that area.

Click to expand...

What the ICAC has told you is simply false. I hope you will take time to look at how Perverted-Justice actually do these busts.

Dex said:

Then you write your local sheriff's dept, like I did (still waiting on response)
I've also wrote ICAC, NCMEC, and ICE. (no response to my inquiry, just a run around)

So where do you take all the information that you have been ignored by LE?

I dunno, but Chris Hansen pops into mind :angel:

Click to expand...

Perhaps instead you should contact the multiple law enforcement agencies that set up the Dateline Stings. Or one of many that have an information first agreement. I know that ICE has worked with PJ in the past.

Well first of all Im not here to argue. I never said that LE with ICAC training doesn't do anything. Im saying that I can assume since ICAC training is offered to POLICE that PJ has none of this. I do not consider training reading an FAQ and following guidelines wrote by PJ members. ICAC training is training, it is certified training. They may be trained but its most likely from their own specifications not ICACS. Heck, I've even emailed PJ's for comment in my analysis and they didn't reply. I've been to their site. I've also stopping visiting.

What does that tell me? I can almost assume from your defensive post that you are probably related to PJ somehow. So I would kindly ask that this thread NOT be turned into a defensive thread for PJ but rather stay on track for what I the poster intended. This is for victims of online abduction and not to support PJ who deals with solicitation.


on a side note:

vigilante n. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands.

Dex said:

Well first of all Im not here to argue. I never said that LE with ICAC training doesn't do anything. Im saying that I can assume since ICAC training is offered to POLICE that PJ has none of this. I do not consider training reading an FAQ and following guidelines wrote by PJ members. ICAC training is training, it is certified training. They may be trained but its most likely from their own specifications not ICACS. Heck, I've even emailed PJ's for comment in my analysis and they didn't reply. I've been to their site. I've also stopping visiting.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry you had a negative experience. I will let you know that reading of the faqs is not all that volunteers undergo. They undergo a lot of training.

PeeJ does offer training, extensive training. Yes, their own specifications because their specs are often more intensive then ICAC.

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions and I'll try to get you in touch with someone who might be able to answer your questions, that were unanswered before.

vigilante n. One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one's own hands

Click to expand...

If you read how PeeJ works you will realize this is not what they do, they hand the info to the hands of LE, often because LE has requested that PeeJ does so at first contact.

Dex said:

Yes I've watched it. I used to visit their site until I started this project and started talking law enforcement about it. Really they are a vigelante group. I asked everyone I could find in this field how to help, become trained, and get your foot in the door. They all said I would need ICAC training. The group on tv doesn't have that as far as I know, yet they were allowed to TRAIN FL LE and call themselves experts. I strongly suggest that no one try to setup a sting themselves. Let LE handle it. After this project I don't agree 100% with what their doing when they're not on dateline. Are these stings a good prevenative measure consider alot of the men had saw the stings, or been in trouble before. Its like some went from our streets to the internet where they can atleast be caught easier and now they are going to go back to our streets. :waitasec:

Look at the hold we have on child *advertiser censored* on the internet. We're just NOW starting to really crack down on it. With 50,000 predators on line at any given time can we really afford to "work less than a part time basis" (quoted by Westerville, PD) They're excuse is resources...I say train some civillians who want to work in law enforcement to assist in these investigations. As a CJ student, I don't want to become a cop, but I do want to work in cyber crimes and child exploitation, I am basically being told I can't unless I get ICAC training and become a cop I can't help.. PJ's aren't cops, nor do they have ICAC training. . u tell me what smells fishy there. With over 13 yrs of experience on the computer, I have been stone walled by LE in any attempt to determine what educational path I should follow to get a toe moreless a foot in the door. So where do you go when LE doesn't take you seriously? When they take the names and logs of 11 predators and pretend like they aren't going to trash it...but obviously do.

You write a letter to your state rep, like I did. Who then forwards it onto another state rep.:innocent:

Then you write your local sheriff's dept, like I did (still waiting on response)
I've also wrote ICAC, NCMEC, and ICE. (no response to my inquiry, just a run around)

So where do you take all the information that you have been ignored by LE?

I dunno, but Chris Hansen pops into mind :angel:

Click to expand...

Dex, have you thought about applying to the FBI? I know they handle cyber-crimes, that's what someone I know's husband does...

So your telling me that the LE then take those logs and prosecute? (not reffering to the stings) I don't know about your laws but OHIO laws state that is considered entrapment and are very specific to LE being the ones who are solicited. Actually one of the guys from Westerville's ICE team told me that they probably couldn't do anything with the 11 predators I gave them, because of these laws and your telling me they could? Or is PJ just a special exception to those LAWS. Sorry if I come off wrong, but I'm trying to figure out if he lied to my face. I graduate in less than a week and have been trying to get answers from MANY in LE and those who participate. I have had more doors shut in my face and hit more bricks walls than I have trying to look for a regular job. It's one thing to lie but its another to not take someone seriously who is offering 13 years of computer experience to help who is a criminal justice student. I feel like all the time I spent to forward the logs and such was a HUGE waste of my time because no one from their team contacted me back to let me know anything. The only person who contacted me was after I sent the first initial log to NCMEC and it took ME 3 calls back to them and leaving messages to get them to call me back. Then I was contacted by a prosecutors office, and that was that.

Dex said:

So your telling me that the LE then take those logs and prosecute? (not reffering to the stings) I don't know about your laws but OHIO laws state that is considered entrapment and are very specific to LE being the ones who are solicited. Actually one of the guys from Westerville's ICE team told me that they probably couldn't do anything with the 11 predators I gave them, because of these laws and your telling me they could? Or is PJ just a special exception to those LAWS. Sorry if I come off wrong, but I'm trying to figure out if he lied to my face. I graduate in less than a week and have been trying to get answers from MANY in LE and those who participate. I have had more doors shut in my face and hit more bricks walls than I have trying to look for a regular job. It's one thing to lie but its another to not take someone seriously who is offering 13 years of computer experience to help who is a criminal justice student. I feel like all the time I spent to forward the logs and such was a HUGE waste of my time because no one from their team contacted me back to let me know anything. The only person who contacted me was after I sent the first initial log to NCMEC and it took ME 3 calls back to them and leaving messages to get them to call me back. Then I was contacted by a prosecutors office, and that was that.

Click to expand...

It is not entrapment when done properly. That is why the contributers at Perverted-Justice spend so much time to training.

Law Enforcement doesn't always understand cyber crimes that well.

Here are links to two different convictions in Ohio. Perverted-Justice has at least 4 convictions in that state not including the media busts.

I do know that it can be frustrating to attempt to work with LE. Each department is different. Some actually have cyber divisions, some barely have email.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/?con=manofdarkneedsl951
http://www.perverted-justice.com/?con=onelstsoul

Dex, I was thinking that PJ did some stings in Ohio. I believe I remember some in Cincinnati. Because of the controversy over PJ, a lot of times media doesn't mention PJ by name when they report the bust- but they will say that the person arrested was involved in a sting by an online anti pedophile group or use similiar terminology. If you research the names of the people arrested, you will then often find them on the PJ site.
Here are a couple I found at Channel 5 in Cincinnati, which lists PJ specifically.

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/4035083/detail.html

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/4686085/detail.html

So PJ is in Ohio, and their busts are sticking in most cases. LE will often not accept transcripts and such from individuals, because of potential legal problems, but they are slowly beginning to accept PJ.
I do remember a person who was arrested in another state, because a girl was chatting with him online and he made advances on her. Mom became aware and made a report and LE guided Mom through the chat, and they busted him. Seems like that may have been a Brown Cty woman.

Yeah thats the thing that gets me. I told them how everything went down. I even had the old yahoo messanger installed which DOES save the first line of contact. In each instance I told them that I was solicited, that the picture provided was me of a younger age (13 and 14) and that I saved screenshots, even their profiles, any identify information on that profile, such as pictures in case they dropped them, and put everything in an excel sheet. I never initiated the conversation or even brought up sex. I guess it just disturbs me that they told me they could even try to login under those accounts and do something and that was the end of it. I get to go to sleep every night thinking about "Joe" "bob" and "john" doing this to someone else. I had one so persistent in meeting that he asked what school I went to, repeatedly, almost in a sense that he was going to go cruise the school and look for me. Considering it had nothing to do with out conversations, that kinda scared me. . and the fact that I believe he had kids the same age. I know they have little knowledge in computers. I attended a seminar and once the computer forensics guy left they couldn't answer any questions parents had. I of course sat there and bit my lip because I didn't want to impede their seminar, but I knew. Trying to talk to someone in LE and explaining your purpose, intent, and passion towards helping in this area and getting lied to or given the cold shoulder is a heck of a wake up call. It's got me questioning what I'm even going to school for. I've been going into chat rooms since 1999. I started back when MiRC was popular, and even owned a commodore 64 LOL. I would think they would have jumped on the opportunity, but they didn't, nor did they act like they were even taking me seriously. One of the guys was from where I live with a prior for attempting to solicit a minor. I know the guy, and it sickens me to think that even with a prior they didn't try to do anything. Some of them I asked if I could add to my buddy list so that 1. I could prove the intent of continious solicitation 2. If LE did take over the accounts, they would be there, and they could msg LE 3. So I could see for my project how often and what hours they login. I actually found amazingly that I was solicited more by older men late in the am at night during the week, and by younger men as young as 23 during the weekends when most people that age would be out partying. I don't see that alot of people can handle going into a field like this, and feel that I can. I wake up every morning and think about these guys, if they've been successful in soliciting a minor and actually meeting them. If anything was done, or if the teacher for example has tried to solicit his students. I would have even drove to westerville to login under the assumed names so they could "supervise" my actions. They mentioned they have civillians that assist in the investigations under supervision. To my knowledge I have been told it is not entrapment if they solicit someone other than law enforcement first, then would happen to solicit law enforcement.. or something to that fact. That is why I wrote our state rep and ask that they amend those laws. Im not saying every tom, dick, and hairy should go out and try to do it, but those with the knowledge, experience, and education should not be restricted because they are not law enforcement. LE should harness that and work with them to put a stop to solicitation as we know it. Predators should not be given the lead way to solicit any child, regardless of who they "think" they are soliciting.

"
When a predator is soliciting law enforcement or an actual 14 year old child, one thing is very clear - the predator is aware of the age and regardless of that knowledge continues to solicit that child. That means that the person is knowingly and willingly committing a crime.

At this time only law enforcement or a minor child being solicited can be used legally to convict someone. I believe "entrapment" issues are the reason other organizations are limited in helping assist law enforcement in this matter.

How is it entrapment when a predator seeks to sexually solicit “anyone” posing as a young child with the “belief” or “intent” that a sexual crime will take place. In the solicitation of a child, a child rarely sends an invitation. A sexual predator is a person who preys on people for the “intent” of committing a sexual crime. That “intent”, should be the main concern, not the age of the assumed person that was solicited. Regardless of the age, the “intent” was still there, and that “intent” was to exploit what they believed was an innocent child.
Whether it started as what appeared to be “friendly sexual advice” or straight to viewing the predator commit sex acts on their web cam, each predator was aware of the solicitation and had a “belief” that the person being solicited was 14 years old or younger, without question. I believe this is why “intent” should be the focus in the penalties for online solicitation, not whether or not the predator was lied to by the "decoy", because the severity of their penalty could be the determining factor on whether or not the predator seeks to prey on children ever again. The "decoy" could be the determining factor and end point for any future solicitations. Not another child."

As I said Dex, PJ is chatting with people in Ohio, they are getting them busted, and the busts are sticking in court.

mysteriew said:

As I said Dex, PJ is chatting with people in Ohio, they are getting them busted, and the busts are sticking in court.

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Yeap, and some of these busts were based on logs alone.

http://www.cincypost.com/2005/01/05/andrew010505.html

The Cincinnati Post said:

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=+1][font=arial,helvetica][font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][font=arial,helvetica]Andrews' charges carrying a maximum prison sentence of 17 years. [/font][/font][/font][/size][/font]

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=+1][font=arial,helvetica][font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][font=arial,helvetica]Andrews resigned Nov. 18 from his job at the law firm of Schuh & Goldberg after he was accused of going on the Internet and engaging in a sexually graphic conversation. That Internet conversation, or chat, was an exchange of written text messages between two people, one purported to be Andrews and the other of what was believed to be a 13-year-old girl. [/font][/font][/font][/size][/font]

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][size=+1][font=arial,helvetica][font=ARIAL,HELVETICA][font=arial,helvetica]That chat was posted on an Internet Web site called Perverted-Justice.com, which claims its volunteers pose as children and engage in sexually explicit chats with adults, then feature the chats and the pictures of the adults on its Web site. [/font][/font][/font][/size][/font]

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From the Perverted-Justice webpage on Andrews

This also marks our sixth conviction in Ohio.

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Dex said:

I never initiated the conversation or even brought up sex. I guess it just disturbs me that they told me they could even try to login under those accounts and do something and that was the end of it.

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Yeah, sometimes that is how LE acts. Sometimes they just don't want to deal with the problem, and act as if it will go away. Sometimes they just don't have the manpower, though.

I get to go to sleep every night thinking about "Joe" "bob" and "john" doing this to someone else.

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Remember though, that all the time you spent with these pervs is time they could have spent chatting with a real kid. It's not much, I know, but it is something.

I had one so persistent in meeting that he asked what school I went to, repeatedly, almost in a sense that he was going to go cruise the school and look for me. Considering it had nothing to do with out conversations, that kinda scared me. .

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I can understand that fear. That is a real sicko.

2. If LE did take over the accounts, they would be there, and they could msg

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This is fairly common. LE will take over an account and set up a meet or get more evidence.

To my knowledge I have been told it is not entrapment if they solicit someone other than law enforcement first, then would happen to solicit law enforcement.. or something to that fact.

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In some places, that actually is the case.

That is why I wrote our state rep and ask that they amend those laws. Im not saying every tom, dick, and hairy should go out and try to do it, but those with the knowledge, experience, and education should not be restricted because they are not law enforcement.

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Agreed, and that is why I support perverted-justice. They have the training, experience and convictions to show for it. In fact, the FBI is charging one of the men that was worked by a contributer (and verifier).

I believe "entrapment" issues are the reason other organizations are limited in helping assist law enforcement in this matter.

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Some organizations don't understand what entrapment is.

Great info again on PeeJ's FAQ webpage: - sorry if I sound lke a broken record.

Is it entrapment?
A. To the people who like to make that claim, let's deal with an analogy real quick. Pretend that there is a twelve year old sitting in a park dancing around and asking older males for sex. Yes, that extreme of a situation. What should the male say? Yes, or no? Is the prospect of an underage kid so irresistible that we now consider a willing underage kid to be so persuasive that a male can't do anything but say yes? Get real.

So are the files we post "entrapment"? No. Not on any level. First, entrapment is a term created and judiciated against law enforcement officials. We are not law enforcement officials. Secondly, these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call. Entrapment is a situation where you go out of your way to entice a citizen as law enforcement to commit a crime they otherwise would not commit. For example, if a department sent around female police pretending to be prostitutes to knock on the doors of private citizens offering sex, that's entrapment. We don't do the figurative "knocking on doors." Rather we sit, wait, and allow them to knock upon our online "door." And when they do, they're in for a surprise.

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How is it entrapment when a predator seeks to sexually solicit “anyone” posing as a young child with the “belief” or “intent” that a sexual crime will take place. In the solicitation of a child, a child rarely sends an invitation. A sexual predator is a person who preys on people for the “intent” of committing a sexual crime. That “intent”, should be the main concern, not the age of the assumed person that was solicited. Regardless of the age, the “intent” was still there, and that “intent” was to exploit what they believed was an innocent child.
Whether it started as what appeared to be “friendly sexual advice” or straight to viewing the predator commit sex acts on their web cam, each predator was aware of the solicitation and had a “belief” that the person being solicited was 14 years old or younger, without question. I believe this is why “intent” should be the focus in the penalties for online solicitation, not whether or not the predator was lied to by the "decoy", because the severity of their penalty could be the determining factor on whether or not the predator seeks to prey on children ever again. The "decoy" could be the determining factor and end point for any future solicitations. Not another child."

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Depends on the state. Many states do have laws against "intent" thank goodness.

EWW on a side note a friend asked me to look up sex offenders in our area. Glad to see I found a glitch. A 2 miles radius search shows 10, a town search shows 8. I KNOW of one within blocks of her home. So I decided to contact the Sheriff's office and let them know. If any part of your CITY is ABBREVIATED or COULD BE....TRY IT BOTH WAYS. This particular offender showed up on one list but not the other and was NO WHERE on the radius search <cringes> Lets hope they don't ignore me on that one.

I think some people in LE need to go back to school and learn what the internet is. This whole thing just shed a whole new light on how screwed I am into going anywhere in this field. If you can't get answers from your own LE, or distant LE, or ICAC, who do u get it from? All they had to do was tell me no, instead of lying to me. It just makes me doubt everything even more. Here I sit graduating in a week and I don't even have to motivation to pursue that, because I'd have to call the same departments and get the same run around. Get this, as an intern for a crime scene tech at one place I was told I had to be a cop, to INTERN as a STUDENT. At another place I was told I needed 2 years LAB EXPERIENCE. They didn't even listen to what I said or was asking. . .

So I got off that boat and decided to try this one because I have tons of computer experience and once again :banghead:

I guess I should have just stuck to web design.:waitasec: