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  1. #46
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    Jul 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasunc
    I was reluctant to post this speculation because it seemed something more likely to appear as a convenient plot twist in a Lifetime made-for-TV movie than in real life. I decided it might be a bigger mistake to underestimate a capabilities of a delusional paranoid-schizophrenic who had earned degrees at two different Ivy League universities.
    LOL, all theories and suggestions get posted- from the mundane to the very out there ones. We look at any and all possibilities. ROFL, at one point I even popped the question of could GB be a transexual, and in different forum (about someone else) Dr. D. even made a suggestion about a toe! So don't hesitate to ask, suggest or make a point.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  2. #47
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    Jun 2006
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    Trenton, New Jersey
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    ... all theories and suggestions get posted- from the mundane to the very out there ones. We look at any and all possibilities ....
    I've spent the last week reading the 1800+ posts to this forum and was relieved/impressed that the subject of UFOs never came up (although, if I were a True Believer, it would provide a tidy and tempting explanation).

    But seriously, maybe I've been watching too many episodes of CSI, but when I saw the photo of the plaster cast of Anna's handprint I had to wonder: if her fingerprints were entered into the (NCIC?) system, might it be possible to get a hit? I don't know if a 5-year-old's fingerprints could be matched to an adult's, how long afterward fingerprints could be recovered from an object (as of last month Anna has been missing for a third of a century), or if any of the objects that Annasmom put away might hold such evidence, but it's a thought.

  3. #48
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    LOL, I thought of that too. I believe that CSI did have an episode about that once.
    From what I know about fingerprints, your fingerprints are always your fingerprints, you are born with them and you die with the same ones. I would guess the problem would be in how the cast was done. My guess is that Anna placed her hand in a semi-solid, or damp sand. Then plaster was probably poured in that. If so the ridge detail was probably not clear or was destroyed in the transfer to plaster.
    The only way that the print detail could have been picked up (like on CSI) would have been if both the imprint and the cast were of a finegrained substance like a plastic or rubber.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  4. #49
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    I also had considered the possibility of getting fingerprints from the hand cast, but it does sound unlikely that it would work with what we have.

    Another possibilty is DNA - there is a type of DNA that passes from mother-to-child where identification is possible. However, I do not know if getting a DNA sample from Annasmom would be useful when checking any DNA that is on file with LE (CODIS?). In other words, I know that a direct sample from Anna could be run through the system for a match, but could the automated matching process be used to locate potential matches with Annasmom's "second-generation" DNA sample?

  5. #50
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    The FBI has a DNA database for missing persons. And if a direct DNA sample is not available, they will take DNA from relatives. That database is what is used in making matches to unidentifieds. I don't know if it crosses over to any other database, but I know they use it on unidentifieds. If Annasmom hasn't submitted a sample, she should get in touch with NCMEC and ask how to go about submitting one.


    Annasmom, how did they make the plaster cast of Annashand?
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    The FBI has a DNA database for missing persons. And if a direct DNA sample is not available, they will take DNA from relatives. That database is what is used in making matches to unidentifieds. I don't know if it crosses over to any other database, but I know they use it on unidentifieds. If Annasmom hasn't submitted a sample, she should get in touch with NCMEC and ask how to go about submitting one.
    Annasmom has not submitted a sample yet, because there never has been a specific unidentified that they thought was Anna. If there is a mechanism to automatically check against all UID's, then definitely we should explore that. It is also possible that Anna's DNA could turn up in a criminal case where a match could be made.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    Annasmom, how did they make the plaster cast of Annashand?
    Annasmom is unavailable for about one more week, but I believe that the cast was made in kindergarten as an art project in 1972.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
    Annasmom has not submitted a sample yet, because there never has been a specific unidentified that they thought was Anna. If there is a mechanism to automatically check against all UID's, then definitely we should explore that. It is also possible that Anna's DNA could turn up in a criminal case where a match could be made.


    Annasmom is unavailable for about one more week, but I believe that the cast was made in kindergarten as an art project in 1972.
    Thanks Dr. D. I wasn't sure if she was back yet. In working on the cast, you have to have a base that Anna would have put her hand in, and then when that material dried, the plaster would have been poured into the cast and allowed to set up. I was just wondering what the base was made of.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  8. #53
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    I believe that what we have is just the imprint of her hand in plaster or clay. Annasmom can clarify this when she returns.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasunc
    ...I decided it might be a bigger mistake to underestimate the capabilities of a delusional paranoid-schizophrenic who had earned degrees at two different Ivy League universities.
    I am glad that you made this point, Annasunc. As "stupid" as the relationship between Waters and Brody appears to outsiders, it is easy to assume that Waters was not intelligent. This would be a horrible mistake - he was most likely a genius who was vulnerable due to his illness. His psychosis advanced quickly after he met Brody, but just a few short years earlier, he was earning advanced degrees from the best universities on the planet. No, he was one smart cookie and capable of some extremely clever manuevers.

  10. #55
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    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
    I believe that what we have is just the imprint of her hand in plaster or clay. Annasmom can clarify this when she returns.
    I don't post much here but I read every day. You guys are awesome!

    I wanted to tell you all I made a handprint when I was in Kindergarten.

    We used a type of dough, similar to what you would use to make playdough, and we put our hands directly on it. We put a hole in the top with a pencil, and put string through the hole. It dried over the weekend, I think. Anyway, I remember every ridge coming out. I remember asking my teacher why we had fingerprints. It wasn't really a cast, persay (that would be expensive, I would think) but a handprint in salted dough.

    Maybe a similar type of material was used for Anna's handprint - it's very cost effective.

    Good Luck!
    Never give up...


  11. #56
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    May 2005
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    1,754
    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew
    The FBI has a DNA database for missing persons. And if a direct DNA sample is not available, they will take DNA from relatives. That database is what is used in making matches to unidentifieds. I don't know if it crosses over to any other database, but I know they use it on unidentifieds. If Annasmom hasn't submitted a sample, she should get in touch with NCMEC and ask how to go about submitting one.


    Annasmom, how did they make the plaster cast of Annashand?
    As far as I can tell, the kindergarten teacher just put plaster of Paris in a small piepan and the children put their hands directly into the plaster when it was beginning to harden. I also have an ash tray Anna made from clay which has little fingerprints all over it. The top is glazed, but the bottom is not. I think someone who knew what he was doing could probably get something from this, though of course most of the fingerprints are smeared.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
    I believe that what we have is just the imprint of her hand in plaster or clay. Annasmom can clarify this when she returns.
    Hi! We got back late yesterday, and trying to catch up on the forum reminded me of the ash tray (I just mentioned it in another post) which probably has better partial fingerprints than the plaster cast. It made me feel good that all of you have still been sleuthing while I was gone.

  13. #58
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    May 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasunc
    I am Annasmom's youngest brother, Dan. I was a college senior at the time of Anna's disappearance, living in married students' housing with my son and then wife about two thousand miles away (my son is three years younger than his cousin Anna). Because of the distance involved, the great amount of uncertainty surrounding the case and my reluctance to intrude on my sister's grief, there is a lot I am finding out here for the first time. I want to thank the members of this forum for the interest and involvement they've shown to the case and the comfort and love they've shown my sister.
    What a lovely surprise, trying to catch up on everything written since June 14, to read these posts from my little brother. Isn't this forum amazing?

  14. #59
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    May 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoping4truth
    I don't post much here but I read every day. You guys are awesome!

    I wanted to tell you all I made a handprint when I was in Kindergarten.

    We used a type of dough, similar to what you would use to make playdough, and we put our hands directly on it. We put a hole in the top with a pencil, and put string through the hole. It dried over the weekend, I think. Anyway, I remember every ridge coming out. I remember asking my teacher why we had fingerprints. It wasn't really a cast, persay (that would be expensive, I would think) but a handprint in salted dough.

    Maybe a similar type of material was used for Anna's handprint - it's very cost effective.

    Good Luck!
    I'll go take a closer look. I have the handprint all wrapped up in bubble wrap.

  15. #60
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    Jul 2004
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    You might consider taking the handprint and the ashtray to a private forensics lab and see if they could get fingerprints from that.

    Here is an article that describes the FBI DNA database, and the plan to use it to connect unidentifieds to families.

    "We need to broaden our capability," said Thomas Callaghan, director of the FBI's national DNA database program. He said the FBI is in "a very good position" to identify remains through family members because of the agency's small but growing database of missing persons and unidentified remains, plus its experience in using computers to match DNA.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...database_x.htm
    The article says that they plan to start using it this fall, but I am pretty sure that they have been using it on a limited basis before now. And in the article it does talk about the fact that they have made a "handful" of matches so far. But they have now developed a new type of DNA computer search plan which is supposed to make it better.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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