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  1. #1
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    Missing Phone Records?

    There are supposed to be phone records missing for one of the ramsey phones and it has been suggested that this is to hide a Ramsey phone call during the night of the murder - perhaps to a lawyer.

    We know that Patsy purchased a new cell phone for John after he lost his and had been intending to give it to him for Christmas, but that he walked in, saw it charging and took it there and then.

    Patsy was asked about this phone in one of her interviews and she was asked specifically if John had separate phones for business and personal use - but she replied that he had ONE phone. This is where I get confused. A CEO - and he has one phone (OK - my husband has one cell phone for business and person use nothing strange there). However, when CEO John loses his cell phone - his wife buys him a replacement ... and intends to give it to him for his Christmas?????? OK, may this isn't so strange. We also know from John's interview that he had ordered a replacement phone through Access Graphics, so maybe he's going to have separate phones for business and personal use. I think it's a bit of an encumbrance to carry two phones, but maybe people do that.

    Now I'm getting to the point. There could be another reason why someone would want to hide cell phone records. they show calls and numbers - right? I do often think I lead a sheltered life but I do happen to know someone who purchased a cell phone when she started having an affair. She wanted to call her lover, but she didn't want her husband to see the calls on her phone bill - so she got a second phone.

    I have always felt that the Ramseys were hiding *something*, but I have felt that it was something like an affair. An affair IMO would fit perfectly with a missing/destroyed phone bill.
    This is only my opinion

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  2. #2
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    I agree having two phones one for buisness one for personal use seems stupid and it would definetly drive me crazy. Perhaps Patsy didnt tell john she was getting him a replacement phone for xmas so john needing a phone orderd another one through access graphics.

    Whats werid is that if your a CEO and you lost you phone - your lifeline in buisness, wouldnt u replace it immediatly, pretty dumb of patsy to think john could wait off till xmas came.

    I find it so frustrating that the ramseys declare innocence and that they have taken every step to help BPD in eliminating them as suspects so the investigation can continue in the 'right' direction, yet they wont hand over phone records. Even more frustrating is the fact they get away with this!

  3. #3
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    I thought the records showed no calls for the month of December, is that what is meant by missing??
    That there were no calls recorded for the month of December on that particular cell phone is certainly suspicious.

  4. #4
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    Missing

    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    I thought the records showed no calls for the month of December, is that what is meant by missing??
    That there were no calls recorded for the month of December on that particular cell phone is certainly suspicious.
    Just like the Christmas video. Missing.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie
    I agree having two phones one for buisness one for personal use seems stupid and it would definetly drive me crazy. Perhaps Patsy didnt tell john she was getting him a replacement phone for xmas so john needing a phone orderd another one through access graphics.

    Whats werid is that if your a CEO and you lost you phone - your lifeline in buisness, wouldnt u replace it immediatly, pretty dumb of patsy to think john could wait off till xmas came.

    I find it so frustrating that the ramseys declare innocence and that they have taken every step to help BPD in eliminating them as suspects so the investigation can continue in the 'right' direction, yet they wont hand over phone records. Even more frustrating is the fact they get away with this!
    I don't know how these things worked in 1996 and I don't know how they work in the US. I do know that in the UK in 1998 that my husband was able to buy a cell phone and have it activated the same day ready for immediate use. Nowadays, I can go into the local cornershop and buy a ready-activated mobile phone on a pay-as-you-go basis (no bills or contract - you top the phone up with credit before you can use it).

    In fairness to the ramseys, it wasn't a case that they refused to hand over phone records. According to Steve Thomas, they weren't asked for all of their records. The police obtained these records from a company called TouchTone (sp) who specialise in obtaining records but the polcie weren't allowed to use these records and I think they had to be destroyed. The DAs office suggested they "just ask" the Ramseys for the records, but the police wanted to obtain them with warrants - which were never issued.

    I therefore think they know what the phone records contained - but they just cannot use what they know because of they way they obtained them.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  6. #6
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    But if the Rs are innocent and have nothing to hide, why not just turn over the phone records without a search warrant? They had to know police wanted those records...why wait to be asked?

  7. #7
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    exactly. This is what must make IDI theorists lay awake at night. Just to get it on record are the rams declining to hand over the phone records or they went missing which is it??

  8. #8

    There are supposed to be ...........

    Jayelles you have begun a whole thread with this statement "There are supposed to be phone records missing for one of the ramsey phones"

    Are we now into discussing rumours? Or do you have some reliable piece of information? If so could you please list the source?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiesheila
    Jayelles you have begun a whole thread with this statement "There are supposed to be phone records missing for one of the ramsey phones"

    Are we now into discussing rumours? Or do you have some reliable piece of information? If so could you please list the source?
    No it's not rumour. If you do a simple search you'll find plenty of discussion about it. You can search on any forum - it's been well discussed.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




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  10. #10
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    There are missing phone records, as well as calls to people in authority.

    Why should the Ramsey's be different from other families, they will have had skeletons buried away somewhere, no pun intended, so JR may have had an affair on the go, or even PR who knows, but how would all this impact on JonBenet?

    The phone calls may be interesting reveal a skeleton or two, but simply be incidental?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    There are missing phone records, as well as calls to people in authority.

    Why should the Ramsey's be different from other families, they will have had skeletons buried away somewhere, no pun intended, so JR may have had an affair on the go, or even PR who knows, but how would all this impact on JonBenet?

    The phone calls may be interesting reveal a skeleton or two, but simply be incidental?
    Yes, that is my belief. I think the Ramseys were hiding *something* - like an affair or possibly some other domestic scandal.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  12. #12
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    who are the ramseys to judge whats important in a murder investigation. If they have skeletons in the closet which they didnt want anyone finding out about thats fine, but how do they know it shouldnt be excluded from the investigation. The police need to know everything to do their job, no matter how irrelevant it might seem to the rams.

    The fact is the rams are hiding something - although we dont know what.
    It must either
    1. implicate them in the crime
    2. embrass them beyond measure.

    Because they have refused the hand over the records they have made themselves look suspicious in their daughters death. They have been running away from suspicion for 10 years yet they gladly take it in this instance rather than revealing what the phone records imply - must be something very big.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    There are missing phone records, as well as calls to people in authority.

    Why should the Ramsey's be different from other families, they will have had skeletons buried away somewhere, no pun intended, so JR may have had an affair on the go, or even PR who knows, but how would all this impact on JonBenet?

    The phone calls may be interesting reveal a skeleton or two, but simply be incidental?
    I was into IDI, but the one thing that kept on bothering me was that ST requested the cel phone records but couldn't get them. Correct me if I am wrong, please. I always wondered how anyone could write such a note after such a tumultuous emotional event and without the evil inclination towards mystery kidnap crime movies.

  14. #14
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    I don't remember "cell phone records missing", at all??

    btw..remember this?
    Quote" "
    James and Regana Rapp, owners of Denver-based Touch Tone, also obtained cell phone records for the parents of slain child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey and sold them to supermarket tabloids through a middleman. The Rapps pleaded guilty to racketeering. James Rapp served a short jail sentence and his wife received probation, records show

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    I don't remember "cell phone records missing", at all??

    btw..remember this?
    Quote" "
    James and Regana Rapp, owners of Denver-based Touch Tone, also obtained cell phone records for the parents of slain child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey and sold them to supermarket tabloids through a middleman. The Rapps pleaded guilty to racketeering. James Rapp served a short jail sentence and his wife received probation, records show
    crimeADM: Are there any cell phone or long distance records for the Ramseys for December 1996? And if so, do they offer any useful clues?

    Stevethomas: In the book I talk about my frustrations in the obstruction in our efforts to obtain such records. In the Touch Tone investigation (peripherally related case) we found many, many useful records that may/may not have helped the Ramsey investigation. But we were prohibited from exploring them.

    Stevethomas: So as to Dec 1996 records - in hindsight, a heck of a lot more I wish we would have explored. When I left in 1998, people called in Dec 1996 long distance, had never been contacted . .

    crimeADM: Prohibited using what excuse?

    Stevethomas: The excuse was pathetic. Demtuh, for example, as well as hofstrom, suggested asking the Ramseys permission. It was like the way servants treat the Queen of England, and it bothered me terribly. The right way to have done it was through the legal process of search warrants. heaven knows why it took so long, as they had not been procured, part of my frustration, before I resigned.

    Stevethomas: and when I wrote warrant(s) and took them to demuth for approval, they were rejected, despite our legal advisor in the bpd approving them. very frustrating!!!
    According to ST's book P 259 pb:-

    The AirTouch cell phone records were useless. Ramsey started the service in January 1994. AirTouch said that 91 minutes of use were logged during the August--September billing period of 1996, and 108 minutes were used in September--October. October--November was just as busy.

    December, however, the only period we were allowed to see, was empty. No calls at all. I asked if someone could have removed the billing records from the computer? "No way," the AirTouch source told me.

    "All these months preceding December are busy, and not one call was logged for that entire month?"

    The representative was firm. "There ain't no way anybody altered those records."
    This would appear to be John Ramsey's phone and as we know from Patsy's interview, he only had one which she claims he lost. It would have been easy enough to find out from Access Graphics whether indeed a replacement had been ordered.

    I can accept that. This is just one of these confusing little loose ends which comes about as a result of incomplete information, hearsay and bad memories!
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

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