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  1. #16
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahskye
    ... I did find this case that I thought was interesting. This couple, Gerald and Charlene Gallego's first murders were comitted Sept., 1978 in Sacramento. Jane & John Doe's estimated death was Dec. 1978 in Willits, only 3 hrs from Sacramento. They were also found off the highway. ...
    Along the way he talked as if he would presently release the captives, but when he finally ordered Charlene to pull over he ordered the girls out, knocked them unconscious with a tire iron, and shot them. ...
    This is all just my opinion, but how do we know there weren't more murders they weren't charged with, like Jane & John Doe?
    A very interesting possibility, close in geography and similar in many ways to the September 1978 double murder case. I wonder what physical evidence from the 1973 van is still in existance?

  2. #17
    I managed to find a 2005 interview with Cherries mother which basically says they have no leads http://www.wpxi.com/target11/4217338/detail.html It was such a smooth abduction, its hard to believe the person(s) responsible wouldn't have tried it again and/or before. It looks like he was waiting for the school bus.

  3. #18
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    I think it would be good to have Cherrie's thread moved here...

    As far as the two children go...I still come back to the same thing-why were they never reported? Even in '78, the disappearance of two children from the same family woulfd have received some media attention...And, as I said earlier, it appears these children were well-cared for. Very, very strange.

  4. #19

    Possible matches

    Is it possible that they were not from the US? They are both blonde, maybe they are scandinavian? It is so puzzling.

    It is so baffling- they were well looked after, didnt they go to school? Didnt they have friends? It makes no sense!

    I think I did a similar thing to shadowangel. I went through ncmec and pulled up all missing females with brown eyes since the beginning of the database- to look for the girl to start with

    This is the only possible I came up with for Jane -Anna waters
    http://doenetwork.org/cases/176dfca.html Anna would've been 12 by the time Jane Doe was found, so its a little out, but they were skeletal remains and it does say ages are an approximation.

    Also for John Doe- this little boy Leigh Francis Savoie http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/savoie_leigh.html Look at the John Doe and Leighs photo side by side they are actually quite similar………..I know the age progression doesn’t look like him- but its out anyway- Leighs description says he was LIGHT brown hair like John Doe.

    What do you all think??
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-09-2012 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Fixed Bad Link

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel
    I think it would be good to have Cherrie's thread moved here...

    As far as the two children go...I still come back to the same thing-why were they never reported? Even in '78, the disappearance of two children from the same family woulfd have received some media attention...And, as I said earlier, it appears these children were well-cared for. Very, very strange.
    Yes, I too find this very strange that no one ever reported these children missing. It makes me think that these children had been missing for some time. Besides family, not even school officials ever reported them missing.
    Maybe the parents were somehow involved. Had they been murdered, there would have been evidence in their house that children lived there. We only know that the children were murdered in Dec. 1978, but when did they actually go missing? Were they abducted as children? Were they runaways? Was it a case of a parent abduction when they were small? I wish I was a better websleuther to look into this case. I'd love to check into what two children went missing in the time frame of the birth of Jane & John to their death. Someone must have an answer. Couldn't their teeth be traced to dental records?

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kahskye
    . I'd love to check into what two children went missing in the time frame of the birth of Jane & John to their death. Someone must have an answer. Couldn't their teeth be traced to dental records?

    I know you've probably just missed it but I have been through the WHOLE Ncmec database (thats the official missing children database ) I searched for:

    ALL male children with brown, light brown and blonde hair that EVER went missing.

    I also searched for ALL female children with brown, light brown, and blonde hair and brown eyes.

    I looked through all children macthing these descriptions that went missing in 1979 or before- so that would included babies.

    I went through the whole database- theres really not that many to choose from as it has a good search facility. Shadowangel did the same thing on the doe network. Of all the children reported missing before Jane and John Doe were found I have posted the ONLY possible matches ablove. That database covers the whole of the US, there are no other REPORTED possible missing children AT all.

    These are the only possible matches and they're really not that great- and have probably already been looked into. In fact when you do the search Leigh Savoie actually comes up on the same page as John Doe, so Im sure they must've bee right?!
    Anyway........

    Anna waters
    http://doenetwork.org/cases/176dfca.html

    for John Doe- this little boy Leigh Francis Savoie http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/savoie_leigh.html

    Its a mystery!!!!I have a feeling these children arent from the US.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-09-2012 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Fixed bad link

  7. #22
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    Estimated Dates and ages...

    It is very strange that investigators seem to have nailed down the date of death to 8 December 1978, rather than stating a range of months such as "death is estimated to have occurred 3 to 6 months prior to discovery". And yet they do not know for certain whether these two children are brother and sister. A simple DNA test could prove that one way or the other. And it would be a significant clue to go on when searching past cases. What is it - a double abduction of siblings or two separate unrelated abductions?

    I have a feeling that this case is more likely one in which the children were only kept by their murderer for a short period of time before they were killed. Not a case of them being kept for years by an abductor and then killed by him.

    Why the lack of a matching sibling case in today's data base? For one thing, the data bases are fairly new, and there are many older cases which have yet to be included. Another possible reason is that for some reason, they were never reported as missing. California is a place where people from many other states tend to migrate to. They may have been recent arrivals and not known to neighbors and may have had no relatives in the area/state. It is also possible that they were living or traveling with a divorced/widowed parent (or with both parents) and that the whole family were victims.

    Consider the possibility of Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, two California based serial killers who abducted, tortured, and murdered whole families about that time frame.

  8. #23
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    I did some checking into Gerald Gallego...He and his wife fled CA in late Sept '78 after Gallego was charged for the molestation of his daughter. They fled to Houston, TX, and were there by late Sept-Oct of '78. Also, the van, a 1973 Dodge camper conversion, had a mural of a desert mountain scene, complete with circling vultures...

    It is entirely possible that the children's DNA was never tested. DNA testing didn't come into use until '85, and with no one serioulsy looking, and with nothing to test against, I would guess that DNA has never been extracted. Although the remains were skeletal, would the dry climate preserve some DNA, such as tooth root or marrow?

  9. #24
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    The killer could have utilized this as a dumping ground, much as Ridgeway. He could have kidnapped and murdered the kids- then dumped them at the site. It worked once, so he could have done the same thing weeks or months later. I too wonder what made LE make the decision on the exact date of the killings. Even a witness seeing a vehicle in the area could have seen the second body being dumped.
    I wonder if LE would give out any info in this case? It is almost 30 yrs old.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  10. #25
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    CA - Unidentified Male and Female- Found in Mendocino County - July 1979

    Unidentified White Female
    • Located on July 8, 1979 in Mendocino County, California
    • Cause of death is unknown.
    • The estimated date of death is December 8, 1978.
    • Skeletal Remains




    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: Not over 14 years old. Estimated year of birth is 1964.
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5-1/2"
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair.
    • Dentals: Available. Excellent teeth. All adult teeth except the wisdom teeth which were still impacted.
    • Jewelry: She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type).




    Case History
    The victim's skeletal remains were found together with the remains of an unidentified male child near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino County, CA. The anthropologist report indicates a high probability that the two were brother and sister.



    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
    Mendocino County Sheriff's Office
    800-815-3505

    NCIC Number:
    U-765178400

    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
    Source Information: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
    California Department of Justice
    Mendocino County Sheriff's Office






    Unidentified White Male
    • Located on July 8, 1979 in Mendocino County, California
    • Cause of death is unknown.
    • The estimated date of death is December 8, 1978.
    • Skeletal Remains




    Vital Statistics

    • Estimated age: 13 years old. Estimated year of birth is 1965.
    • Approximate Height and Weight: 5'5"
    • Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair.
    • Dentals: Excellent teeth. No decay, no cavities, no fillings. All adult teeth except the wisdom teeth which were still impacted.
    The victim's skeletal remains were found together with the remains of an unidentified female child near Highway 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino County, CA.
    The anthropologist report indicates a high probability that the two were brother and sister.





    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
    Mendocino County Sheriff's Office
    800-815-3505

    NCIC Number:
    U-765181075

    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
    Source Information: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
    California Department Of Justice
    Mendocino County Sheriff's Office


    Links:

    Female: http://doenetwork.org/cases/131ufca.html
    Male: http://doenetwork.org/cases/111umca.html

    NOTE: The Doe Network's Chronological index lists them both as being found on July 10th, 1979 not July 8th, 1979
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-09-2012 at 03:00 PM. Reason: fixed bad links


  11. #26
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    A brother and sister ...how sad. It would seem to me that they were killed by a famliy member but then again, they don't even know if it was foul play. Are there any other details? How impossibly sad is this...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilsister
    A brother and sister ...how sad. It would seem to me that they were killed by a famliy member but then again, they don't even know if it was foul play. Are there any other details? How impossibly sad is this...
    I tried to find online articles about these two and didn't quite find anything ...

    I thought maybe if they were killed, they could have been killed by a relative or maybe the parents could have been involved in their deaths for all we know. These two could have been killed perhaps to stop them from telling something to somebody or they could have accidentally died.

    Perhaps these two ran away from home over something and while trying to find a place to stay, could have gotten lost and died of exposure depending on the weather around the time of their estimated time of death

  13. #28
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    Unhappy

    I totally see your point , according to the NCMEC:

    On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA. The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978. Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type). John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister. The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification. The "DOB" and "Age Now" fields are an approximation.

    There is no apparent indication of a crime of passion etc. However, 2 young people do not go missing and found later deceased without questions attached.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilsister
    I totally see your point , according to the NCMEC:

    On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA. The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978. Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type). John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister. The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification. The "DOB" and "Age Now" fields are an approximation.

    There is no apparent indication of a crime of passion etc. However, 2 young people do not go missing and found later deceased without questions attached.
    If they were found July 10th, 1979- then why do the Doe Network pages for both Jane and John Doe say July 8th, 1979?? It's probably a typo...

    Perhaps these two could have been abducted while they were out by themselves- somebody could have abducted them out of anyone's sight, taken them somewhere and killed them and then could have dumped them off near Hwy.20

  15. #30
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    Have you explored Leonard Lake and Charles Ng? I'm not sure what years they were operating, but it was near Willits where they were committing murders.
    This is the year to locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin NamUs MP#876 and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff NamUs MP#6410 and bring them home to their families!

    Parents watch your children. Free-range parenting leads to more child victims.

    Cruelty to humans begins with cruelty to animals.

    I believe in closure, not forgiveness. I'm also unapologetically judgemental.

    JeSuisJuif
    JeSuisCharlie


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