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  1. #1
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    CA - Mendocino Co, 2 WhtFem Teens, Jul'79 *Francine Trimble & Kerry Graham*

    Modnote: The "male" described below has been confirmed by DNA testing to be FEMALE


    "On July 10, 1979, the skeletal remains of a white female and of a white male (were found near Hwy. 20, West of Willits, in Mendocino Co., CA. The estimated date of death is 12/8/1978. Jane is estimated to be 14 years old and was about 5'5-1/2" in height. She was wearing the pictured hoop with a pearched-bird earring (pierced-ear type). John is estimated to be 13 years old and was about 5'5" in height. It is possible these children were related, perhaps brother and sister. The photographs are computer-generated facial reconstructions done by a forensic artist at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Features such as eyes color, nose, size of lips and ears are the estimations of the artist to complete the image and should not be used as a significant marker for identification. The "DOB" and "Age Now" fields are an approximation."
    http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/ser...archLang=en_US
    http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/ser...archLang=en_US

    i thought they were the fandle children and sent a tip to doe but she said they were ruled out and didnt know what the factor was

    if anyone is intrested in this case let me know if you are intrested
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 08-02-2014 at 04:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by smile22
    "
    i thought they were the fandle children and sent a tip to doe but she said they were ruled out and didnt know what the factor was
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there no way they could be the Fandel children? Wasn't Amy only 8 when she disappeared? There is no way she could be 5'5. They have been off before, but not by 5 years, and two heights (Scott was shorter than the John Doe by about 6-8''. I did think it was them, but there are too many inconsistancies. I just got hung up on the brother sister thing.
    I think they probably are related, and their parents had something to do with it. That would explain why a disappearance like that wouldn't be reported. JMO
    ~Mekena Sarah Gracie Carmichael~
    2007-2011
    West Elgin's Precious Angel

  3. #3
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    yes but at the time i wasnt really thinking about all the hight and stuff someone posted under the amy and scott thread so i thought id go pass on the lead. i did go through all the case filles on doe and couldnt find anything

  4. #4
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    In the book, "I know my first name is Stephen," there's some information about this. Kenneth Parnell was questioned about these kids (lived in the area), and he stated they were local kids but couldn't remember their real names.

  5. #5
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    dont you think that if he would have captured them. he would have known there names. when he had stephen did he have these kids as well. i know in the movie it shows stephen sometime later still a a kid maybe teens. i havent seen the movie in a long time and hes in this dark house or something with a dog and some other children.. did this parnell guy kill his kidnapings? how many did he kill how many did he kidnap. did stephen know anything about these john and jane does? do you have a link on this parnell guy with more info

  6. #6
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    Conspiracy Theories 101

    The primary question I keep coming back to in this case is this...What could happen to a family that would keep them from reporting the disappearance of TWO children? So, I considered a few possibilities...And a check of the major news stories of the day gave me a possible answer.
    The entire family were killed, only the remains of the children have been found.
    It still seems unlikely that the family would not be reported by someone, at some point.
    The children were killed by a parent.
    This would be more likely, however it still seems improbable that the disappearance of two children from the same family. UNLESS...
    The family were not in communication with other family members, and were not socializing with neighbors. This suggested either seperatists, living apart from society, or...
    Members of a cult.
    On November 18th, 1978, the largest mass suicide in the history took place in Jonestown, Guyana when over 900 followers of Jim Jones drank poisoned Flavor Aid. Over 270 of these were children.
    Here's the twist. The People's Temple began in the '50s in the midwest, and then in the early '60s moved to Redwood Valley in Medicino County, CA. Redwood Valley is less than 15 miles from the burial sites of the children. The Temple merged with the Church of Jesus there and began to grow. Jones moved the main body of his "church" to San Francisco in 1971.
    The children were estimated to have died within 20 days of the date of the mass suicide. What if...Someone still loyal to the Temple remained in Redwood Valley, raising their children according to the mandates of the Temple (seperated from the rest of society, home-schooled, worked very hard but given good medical care)?
    When the parent(s) found about the suicide of the rest of the Temple, maybe they felt it was their duty to follow suit?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel
    This would be more likely, however it still seems improbable that the disappearance of two children from the same family. UNLESS...
    The family were not in communication with other family members, and were not socializing with neighbors. This suggested either seperatists, living apart from society, or...
    Members of a cult.
    On November 18th, 1978, the largest mass suicide in the history took place in Jonestown, Guyana when over 900 followers of Jim Jones drank poisoned Flavor Aid. Over 270 of these were children.
    Here's the twist. The People's Temple began in the '50s in the midwest, and then in the early '60s moved to Redwood Valley in Medicino County, CA. Redwood Valley is less than 15 miles from the burial sites of the children. The Temple merged with the Church of Jesus there and began to grow. Jones moved the main body of his "church" to San Francisco in 1971.
    The children were estimated to have died within 20 days of the date of the mass suicide. What if...Someone still loyal to the Temple remained in Redwood Valley, raising their children according to the mandates of the Temple (seperated from the rest of society, home-schooled, worked very hard but given good medical care)?
    When the parent(s) found about the suicide of the rest of the Temple, maybe they felt it was their duty to follow suit?
    But in that scenario you would then have at least one, maybe two more bodies somewhere. Either listed as homicides or more likely as suicides. But in that case, the neighbors were likely to have mentioned that they had seen two children living there. If this was a cult thing, it would be more likely that the cultist would have killed themselves near the children, and wouldn't have bothered with a burial. After all they wouldn't have needed to hide the bodies, if they were going to be dead also. JMO.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  8. #8
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    I thought about that, also. A possibilty is that the parents killed the children then reconsidered when it came to themselves-or travelled elsewhere, possibly to San Francisco, to the remaining "church" of the temple. Jones had fanatics, a "hit squad" if you will, who killed on his command-the murder of the congressman Ryan and his entourage at the airfield was carried out by this group-could some of that group survived to carry on the Rev's "good work"? Most of the details of this tragedy are STILL sealed by the US gov't. I recall some rumors of sympathy suicides at the time, but can find no reports of this yet. Back to the archives....

    Obviously there are serious questions in this case. These children were cared for-perfect teeth? And though the death of one child may go by relatively unnoticed (we speak of such cases constantly here) the death of TWO going unnoticed is, to me, nearly unthinkable. The only answers I can come up with are the kids were in foster care (seperated from family), the family is from out of the country and not being sought here in the US, the family is believed dead due to other circumstances (flood, mudslide, earthqueake, plane crash, ???) or the family was seperated from society. I looked for some time for some tragedy at the time of their deaths and this is all I could find. The location and dates just made me wonder.

    Would any type of analysis of skeletal remains show evidence of poisoning? Most specifically, cyanide poisoning?

  9. #9
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    Maybe their parents had divorced and they were killed by one of the parents, a custody dispute maybe. I don't know if thats possible though b/c I'm sure the abduction would have been reported, but I know there was a time when parental abductions were not considered serious.

  10. #10
    Its entirely possible that it was a parental abduction though- don't you think? It would be easier to get away with it. As a senario- one parent abducts the child in a dispute and then murders them as a punishment. An arrest warrant would be issued for the parent for abducting the children but I know that I, for example only really look at the childrens photos v v closely ( v bad habit, I know).

    How much suspicion would a female/male attract without the missing children-he/she would be much harder to find..................... Its entirely possible that the police at that time (and now?) are looking for the missing parent and the missing children together. Who would think to scour parental abduction photos for murdered children? We didnt............................


  11. #11
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    As I posted before, I tried looking into every scenario I could think of for a double disappearance. I have access to several archives (the wife loves my credit card bill each month) and checked through them all, including parental interference cases (great thinking, though!) I checked foreign websites, Interpol...I just couldn't come up with anything that even came close! I even checked weather almanacs for the period of the presumed deaths...This doeesn't mean that you're not on to something, just that I couldn't find it.

  12. #12
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    I just came across these two yesterday on some unsolved cases link I clicked while reading about Joe Duncan being linked to other murders. At first I thought of Duncan, but he would only have been around 14 at this time and I believe he was only raping at that age. I did find this case that I thought was interesting. This couple, Gerald and Charlene Gallego's first murders were comitted Sept., 1978 in Sacramento. Jane & John Doe's estimated death was Dec. 1978 in Willits, only 3 hrs from Sacramento. They were also found off the highway.

    Just a thought, here's the link about the Gallego's:
    __________________________________________________ __

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_k..._2.html?sect=5
    On September 11, 1978 Gerald was ready. He awoke Charlene (who was two months pregnant and suffering from morning sickness) and told her he had plans that she was to help him execute. They drove in their 1973 Dodge conversion van (with mountains air-brushed on the sides) to Sacramento’s Country Club Plaza shopping center, where Gerald gave Charlene her assignment: she was to locate two suitable sex slaves and lure them out to the parking lot and into the van. She was hesitant at first, afraid that she’d be unsuccessful, or worse, be caught. Gerald told her she was taking too long, and if she knew what was good for her she’d do what he said. She redoubled her efforts, and before long had zeroed in on two prime candidates. Rhonda Scheffler, seventeen, and Kippi Vaught, sixteen, were out for an afternoon of shopping and whatever fun they could scare up. When Charlene (who looked about their age) approached them asking if they’d like to smoke some pot, it sounded like just the adventure they were looking for. They followed her eagerly out to the parking lot, where she opened the van. Inside Gerald waited with a .25 caliber pistol. The girls were surprised, afraid, and easily subdued. Gerald bound them with tape and told Charlene to watch them while he drove.

    They headed east on I-80 toward the Sierra Nevada Mountains. At Baxter, California they left the interstate and Gerald steered them further away from civilization and into the foothills. After finding a suitable spot, he left the van with the girls, the gun, and a sleeping bag, telling Charlene to wait. When he returned hours later he told her to take the van into Sacramento and visit friends in order to establish an alibi. Then she was to drop off the van and return in their Oldsmobile.

    Charlene did as she was told, and when she returned to the woods outside Baxter Gerald ordered the girls into the back seat of the Oldsmobile. He sat with them and directed Charlene, who drove until he said to stop. Along the way he talked as if he would presently release the captives, but when he finally ordered Charlene to pull over he ordered the girls out, knocked them unconscious with a tire iron, and shot them.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    This is all just my opinion, but how do we know there weren't more murders they weren't charged with, like Jane & John Doe?

  13. #13
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    Kahskye-something in your post really caught my eye. Thought the Gallegos were prosecuted in '83, I have to wonder if they had more help than LE was aware of...Check the highlighted area of this post from the Missing! forum, posted by Richard-

    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN Missing: Feb 22, 1985 Cabot, PA
    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN Missing: Feb 22, 1985 Cabot, PA

    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN
    DOB: Aug 14, 1976
    Missing: Feb 22, 1985
    Age at time: 8
    Age Now: 28
    Sex: Female
    Race: White
    Hair: Brown
    Eyes: Hazel
    Height: 4'2" (127 cm)
    Weight: 68 lbs (31 kg)
    She has pierced ears
    Missing From: CABOT (near PITTSBURGH), PA, United States
    Non-Family Abduction

    Cherie was last seen getting off the school bus about 100 yards from home on 22 February 1985. At exactly 4:05 PM she turned and waved good-bye to three school mates who had gotten off the bus with her. They waved back and she circled around the bus so that she could get to her driveway. She never made it up the driveway to her house.
    One mother was parked in front of the bus, waiting to pick up her child. She happened to look up and see Cherrie in the rearview mirror. She watched Cherrie take a second to straighten her clothing as she got off the bus.
    She adjusted her brown Cabbage Patch earmuffs decorated woth long hair, rearranged her blue book bag, which had two straps with a cream-colored top and a blue and red heart. When Cherrie walked out of view, she was wearing a gray coat over a blue denim skirt, blue leg warmers, and ankle high beige boots that her mother had helped her put on that morning.
    At that moment, the watching mother got a brief glimpse of a dark green or blue van. On the side of the van was a painting of a large snow-capped mountain. In the middle of the picture was the figure of a skier in a red and yellow ski outfit racing down teh mountain. The mother noticed that the driver of the van was also wearing ski clothes.
    Police files indicate that a bright blue 1976 Dodge van with a mural of a mountain and a skier may be involved in her disappearance.

    Pennsylvania State Police - Missing Persons Unit

    link:
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...earchLang=en_US

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel
    Kahskye-something in your post really caught my eye. Thought the Gallegos were prosecuted in '83, I have to wonder if they had more help than LE was aware of...Check the highlighted area of this post from the Missing! forum, posted by Richard-

    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN Missing: Feb 22, 1985 Cabot, PA
    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN Missing: Feb 22, 1985 Cabot, PA

    CHERRIE ANN MAHAN
    DOB: Aug 14, 1976
    Missing: Feb 22, 1985
    Age at time: 8
    Age Now: 28
    Sex: Female
    Race: White
    Hair: Brown
    Eyes: Hazel
    Height: 4'2" (127 cm)
    Weight: 68 lbs (31 kg)
    She has pierced ears
    Missing From: CABOT (near PITTSBURGH), PA, United States
    Non-Family Abduction

    Cherie was last seen getting off the school bus about 100 yards from home on 22 February 1985. At exactly 4:05 PM she turned and waved good-bye to three school mates who had gotten off the bus with her. They waved back and she circled around the bus so that she could get to her driveway. She never made it up the driveway to her house.
    One mother was parked in front of the bus, waiting to pick up her child. She happened to look up and see Cherrie in the rearview mirror. She watched Cherrie take a second to straighten her clothing as she got off the bus.
    She adjusted her brown Cabbage Patch earmuffs decorated woth long hair, rearranged her blue book bag, which had two straps with a cream-colored top and a blue and red heart. When Cherrie walked out of view, she was wearing a gray coat over a blue denim skirt, blue leg warmers, and ankle high beige boots that her mother had helped her put on that morning.
    At that moment, the watching mother got a brief glimpse of a dark green or blue van. On the side of the van was a painting of a large snow-capped mountain. In the middle of the picture was the figure of a skier in a red and yellow ski outfit racing down teh mountain. The mother noticed that the driver of the van was also wearing ski clothes.
    Police files indicate that a bright blue 1976 Dodge van with a mural of a mountain and a skier may be involved in her disappearance.

    Pennsylvania State Police - Missing Persons Unit

    link:
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...earchLang=en_US
    That is very interesting how close the descriptions of the van are. However, Gallego's van was a 1973 Dodge. Of course, it's easy to be off w/ a few years. It just amazes me how many missing persons are out there. Do you think the Gallego's possibly had anything to do w/ Jane & John Doe?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowangel
    ...At that moment, the watching mother got a brief glimpse of a dark green or blue van. On the side of the van was a painting of a large snow-capped mountain. In the middle of the picture was the figure of a skier in a red and yellow ski outfit racing down teh mountain. The mother noticed that the driver of the van was also wearing ski clothes.
    Police files indicate that a bright blue 1976 Dodge van with a mural of a mountain and a skier may be involved in her disappearance. ...
    I would point out that body style of the Dodge Van stayed the same from 1971 through 1979. The grill style of that model remained pretty much the same between 1973 and 1979. Thus, the police description of a suspect 1976 Dodge Van (in Cherrie's case) could actually have covered a range of model years.

    In Cherrie's case, the witness only described the vehicle as a dark green or blue van, with the mural scene painted on the side. She did not (to my knowledge) identify the make or model of the van - at least not in any of the press coverage or case summaries that I have seen. I have, however, seen the police composite sketch of that van, and it is clearly a drawing of a third model Dodge Van vintage 1973-1979.

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