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  1. #1
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    Was John Involved?

    While most RDIs see Patsy involved in the killing of her daughter, opinions vary when it comes to John. The gamut ranges from John being totally clueless (S. Thomas' theory for ex.) to theories where John had been the abuser and possibly also the killer of JohnBenet.

    I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?

    When reading the exchange between the Ramseys and Steve Thomas on Larry King Live, I had the feeling that John would do anything for Patsy ("right or wrong, my country!" - right or wrong, "my wife" for that matter). It could be love, it could be guilty feelings on his part, and it could be that he has enough skeletons in his closet himself (dirty business dealings for example) which Patsy knows about, and maybe that's why he is covering up for her now.
    Another motive for John to help Patsy could be that he did not want her to go to jail, leaving Burke without a mother. Fear of being ostracized by society could also have been a motive. "The damage was already done, nobody would bring JB back, but maybe the police will believe our story."

    Quote Originally Posted by UKGUY
    Assuming the above I would speculate John wanted a Get Out of Jail Card, that is he was trying not to become directly involved, and allowing JonBenet's body to be dumped would mean participation of some sort.
    Interesting point, UKGUY.

    But still it is strange that John who was inconsolable at the death of his oldest daughter Beth, showed so little reaction at JonBenet's death.
    John Ramsey is a dark horse. We know so little about his inner life.
    He kept a picture of his eldest daughter Beth (who had died in an automobile accident) in his private bathroom. Is this harmless or weird?
    Last edited by rashomon; 06-11-2006 at 05:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    I cannot stand the man, but I don't think he abused or harmed Jonbenet. I think he is extraordinarily arrogant though and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (which wouldn't be very far). I like people with integrity. I admire people who can admit they are wrong and who can apologise when they should.

    These aren't qualities which fit John Ramsey. He lies and has even boasted about his lies. Not a nice man.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    While most RDIs see Patsy involved in the killing of her daughter, opinions vary when it comes to John. The gamut ranges from John being totally clueless (S. Thomas' theory for ex.) to theories where John had been the abuser and possibly also the killer of JohnBenet.

    I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?

    When reading the exchange between the Ramseys and Steve Thomas on Larry King Live, I had the feeling that John would do anything for Patsy ("right or wrong, my country!" - right or wrong, "my wife" for that matter). It could be love, it could be guilty feelings on his part, and it could be that he has enough skeletons in his closet himself (dirty business dealings for example) which Patsy knows about, and maybe that's why he is covering up for her now.
    Another motive for John to help Patsy could be that he did not want her to go to jail, leaving Burke without a mother. Fear of beig ostracized by society could also have been a motive. The damage was already done, nobody would bring JB back, but maybe the police will believe our story.


    Interesting point, UKGUY.

    But still it is strange that John who was inconsolable at the death of his oldest daughter Beth, showed so little reaction at JonBenet's death.
    John Ramsey is a dark horse. We know so little about his inner life.
    He kept a picture of his eldest daughter Beth (who had died in an automobile accident) in his private bathroom. Is this harmless or weird?
    About John and Beth....it seems a little weird to me that he would keep a picture of Beth in his bathroom, only because it is HIS bathroom and his own personal space. I realize Beth is his biological daughter but in segregating her picture to his own personal bathroom it just seems like he didn't want to share her with the rest of the family in the house. I'm sure it was also his own personal place to go and grieve, but why keep it so seperate from the rest of the family? Were they not together as a family about loving and missing Beth? He reallyy seems to have a problem reaching out for support and comfort when he needs it and that is quite telling in regard to his personality. Doesn't want anyone to see him lose control. According to Patsy he would rather go to his bathroom in the middle of the night and wail by himself than turn to her for comforting. I guess we don't need to wonder what he will do when Patsy passes. Poor Burke will get the cold shoulder if we go by Johns history of actions at times like those.

  4. #4
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    I don't think there will be any tears from John when Patsy passes, let alone wailing in his private bathroom.

  5. #5
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    <<I believe John helped her, but why?>>

    To save face.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I cannot stand the man, but I don't think he abused or harmed Jonbenet. I think he is extraordinarily arrogant though and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (which wouldn't be very far). I like people with integrity. I admire people who can admit they are wrong and who can apologise when they should.

    These aren't qualities which fit John Ramsey. He lies and has even boasted about his lies. Not a nice man.

    Jayelles, you've got me hooked.... where and when did JR lie and then boast about it??!! I mean I believe he's told a mountain of lies, I just didn't know about the boasting part..

    Jubie

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?
    rashomon,
    the standard explanation is that PDI but JR had been abusing JonBenet, so he becomes involved to coverup his own indiscretions, e.g. possibly using the paintbrush handle to assault JonBenet and loop the cord around her wrists.

    Personally I think they both colluded out of self interest, also there may have been a helpful call to the authorities prior to the 911-call.

    It works both ways i.e. if JDI then why should Patsy assist him, and if PDI why should John assist her?

    Its such a serious matter, even on the spousal betrayal aspect, I doubt many spouses would go along with a coverup on the homicide of one of their own children, particularly if they are not involved!

    it might be helpful to draw up a list of all the forensic evidence that was removed from the crime-scene or the house, and ask just how does all this relate to a domestic accident?

    Personally I suspect something darker ...



    .

  8. #8
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    No. .

  9. #9
    IrishMist's Avatar
    IrishMist is offline You can't control the wind - but you can adjust your sails
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy
    Personally I suspect something darker ...
    What do you suspect, UKGuy?

  10. #10
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    UK Guy,

    Do you think that one of the parents killed JBR and blamed it on Burke and reeled the other parent in that way by saying we've got to cover this up to protect poor Burke? Did I guess right?
    Ellen


  11. #11
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    I am on the fence about this murder as well as darlie... I dont think that patsy killed JB, But I do think its possible that they both would cover for burke.

  12. #12
    John's ex-friend John Glynn called Patsy Ramsey John's "trophy wife". I don't recall who said this but Patsy would introduce herself as the former Miss West Virginia.

    I believe John married her not only for her youth, looks, and Miss West Virginie crown, but also her outgoing manner. He was basically a dullard and Patsy was so outspoken. Yin and Yang....

    Privately I believe John was a tyrant. He ran the show and twice Patsy said something to the effect of "I was afraid John....".

    Recall the "Raul" incident. He let Patsy know he was not to pleased by kicking the kitchen door.

    I believe John found out what happened after the fact. He and Patsy are sticking together because both played a role in the staging process.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubie
    Jayelles, you've got me hooked.... where and when did JR lie and then boast about it??!! I mean I believe he's told a mountain of lies, I just didn't know about the boasting part..

    Jubie
    In DOI in the chapter where he describes running his fledgling busines out of his basement and deceiving people into thinking it was a larger business. I am referring specifically to the snowstorm story but I'd have to look it up for the precise words where he boasted about his clever deception.

    It all helps one form an opinion of character.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  14. #14
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    :)

    <<Recall the "Raul" incident. He let Patsy know he was not to pleased by kicking the kitchen door.>>

    Toltec
    What's the 'Raul' incident ?

  15. #15
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    :)

    <<I am referring specifically to the snowstorm story>>

    Jayelles
    What's the snowstorm story?

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