Was John Involved?

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rashomon

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While most RDIs see Patsy involved in the killing of her daughter, opinions vary when it comes to John. The gamut ranges from John being totally clueless (S. Thomas' theory for ex.) to theories where John had been the abuser and possibly also the killer of JohnBenet.

I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?

When reading the exchange between the Ramseys and Steve Thomas on Larry King Live, I had the feeling that John would do anything for Patsy ("right or wrong, my country!" - right or wrong, "my wife" for that matter). It could be love, it could be guilty feelings on his part, and it could be that he has enough skeletons in his closet himself (dirty business dealings for example) which Patsy knows about, and maybe that's why he is covering up for her now.
Another motive for John to help Patsy could be that he did not want her to go to jail, leaving Burke without a mother. Fear of being ostracized by society could also have been a motive. "The damage was already done, nobody would bring JB back, but maybe the police will believe our story."

UKGUY said:
Assuming the above I would speculate John wanted a Get Out of Jail Card, that is he was trying not to become directly involved, and allowing JonBenet's body to be dumped would mean participation of some sort.
Click to expand...
Interesting point, UKGUY.

But still it is strange that John who was inconsolable at the death of his oldest daughter Beth, showed so little reaction at JonBenet's death.
John Ramsey is a dark horse. We know so little about his inner life.
He kept a picture of his eldest daughter Beth (who had died in an automobile accident) in his private bathroom. Is this harmless or weird?
 
I cannot stand the man, but I don't think he abused or harmed Jonbenet. I think he is extraordinarily arrogant though and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (which wouldn't be very far). I like people with integrity. I admire people who can admit they are wrong and who can apologise when they should.

These aren't qualities which fit John Ramsey. He lies and has even boasted about his lies. Not a nice man.
 
rashomon said:
While most RDIs see Patsy involved in the killing of her daughter, opinions vary when it comes to John. The gamut ranges from John being totally clueless (S. Thomas' theory for ex.) to theories where John had been the abuser and possibly also the killer of JohnBenet.

I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?

When reading the exchange between the Ramseys and Steve Thomas on Larry King Live, I had the feeling that John would do anything for Patsy ("right or wrong, my country!" - right or wrong, "my wife" for that matter). It could be love, it could be guilty feelings on his part, and it could be that he has enough skeletons in his closet himself (dirty business dealings for example) which Patsy knows about, and maybe that's why he is covering up for her now.
Another motive for John to help Patsy could be that he did not want her to go to jail, leaving Burke without a mother. Fear of beig ostracized by society could also have been a motive. The damage was already done, nobody would bring JB back, but maybe the police will believe our story.


Interesting point, UKGUY.

But still it is strange that John who was inconsolable at the death of his oldest daughter Beth, showed so little reaction at JonBenet's death.
John Ramsey is a dark horse. We know so little about his inner life.
He kept a picture of his eldest daughter Beth (who had died in an automobile accident) in his private bathroom. Is this harmless or weird?
Click to expand...

About John and Beth....it seems a little weird to me that he would keep a picture of Beth in his bathroom, only because it is HIS bathroom and his own personal space. I realize Beth is his biological daughter but in segregating her picture to his own personal bathroom it just seems like he didn't want to share her with the rest of the family in the house. I'm sure it was also his own personal place to go and grieve, but why keep it so seperate from the rest of the family? Were they not together as a family about loving and missing Beth? He reallyy seems to have a problem reaching out for support and comfort when he needs it and that is quite telling in regard to his personality. Doesn't want anyone to see him lose control. According to Patsy he would rather go to his bathroom in the middle of the night and wail by himself than turn to her for comforting. I guess we don't need to wonder what he will do when Patsy passes. Poor Burke will get the cold shoulder if we go by Johns history of actions at times like those.
 
I don't think there will be any tears from John when Patsy passes, let alone wailing in his private bathroom.
 
<<I believe John helped her, but why?>>

To save face.
 
Jayelles said:
I cannot stand the man, but I don't think he abused or harmed Jonbenet. I think he is extraordinarily arrogant though and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him (which wouldn't be very far). I like people with integrity. I admire people who can admit they are wrong and who can apologise when they should.

These aren't qualities which fit John Ramsey. He lies and has even boasted about his lies. Not a nice man.
Click to expand...


Jayelles, you've got me hooked.... where and when did JR lie and then boast about it??!! :eek: I mean I believe he's told a mountain of lies, I just didn't know about the boasting part..

Jubie
 
rashomon said:
I personally don't believe that a hysterical person like Patsy would have had the nerve to pull through all that staging (including the ransom note) alone. I believe John helped her, but why?
Click to expand...

rashomon,
the standard explanation is that PDI but JR had been abusing JonBenet, so he becomes involved to coverup his own indiscretions, e.g. possibly using the paintbrush handle to assault JonBenet and loop the cord around her wrists.

Personally I think they both colluded out of self interest, also there may have been a helpful call to the authorities prior to the 911-call.

It works both ways i.e. if JDI then why should Patsy assist him, and if PDI why should John assist her?

Its such a serious matter, even on the spousal betrayal aspect, I doubt many spouses would go along with a coverup on the homicide of one of their own children, particularly if they are not involved!

it might be helpful to draw up a list of all the forensic evidence that was removed from the crime-scene or the house, and ask just how does all this relate to a domestic accident?

Personally I suspect something darker ...



.
 
UKGuy said:
Personally I suspect something darker ...
Click to expand...
What do you suspect, UKGuy?
 
UK Guy,

Do you think that one of the parents killed JBR and blamed it on Burke and reeled the other parent in that way by saying we've got to cover this up to protect poor Burke? Did I guess right?
Ellen
 
I am on the fence about this murder as well as darlie...:truce: I dont think that patsy killed JB, But I do think its possible that they both would cover for burke.
 
John's ex-friend John Glynn called Patsy Ramsey John's "trophy wife". I don't recall who said this but Patsy would introduce herself as the former Miss West Virginia.

I believe John married her not only for her youth, looks, and Miss West Virginie crown, but also her outgoing manner. He was basically a dullard and Patsy was so outspoken. Yin and Yang....

Privately I believe John was a tyrant. He ran the show and twice Patsy said something to the effect of "I was afraid John....".

Recall the "Raul" incident. He let Patsy know he was not to pleased by kicking the kitchen door.

I believe John found out what happened after the fact. He and Patsy are sticking together because both played a role in the staging process.
 
jubie said:
Jayelles, you've got me hooked.... where and when did JR lie and then boast about it??!! :eek: I mean I believe he's told a mountain of lies, I just didn't know about the boasting part..

Jubie
Click to expand...
In DOI in the chapter where he describes running his fledgling busines out of his basement and deceiving people into thinking it was a larger business. I am referring specifically to the snowstorm story but I'd have to look it up for the precise words where he boasted about his clever deception.

It all helps one form an opinion of character.
 
<<Recall the "Raul" incident. He let Patsy know he was not to pleased by kicking the kitchen door.>>

Toltec
What's the 'Raul' incident ?
 
<<I am referring specifically to the snowstorm story>>

Jayelles
What's the snowstorm story?
 
DOI, pb, pg 133

(John is talking about the beginnings of Access Graphics)

Since we were still a very small company, I never mentioned that we were headquartered in the basement of our home, because I wanted our customers to think I was a "big" business. As it turned out, working from my home had both advantages and disadvantages. An advantage: One winter day when the heavy snowfall shut down all business in Atlanta, I was sitting at my desk in my pajamas when a customer called. "Wow, I'm surprised you are there," he said. "How did you get to work this morning?"

"Oh, it really wasn't that bad, " I answered.

The tone of his voice told me how impressed he was with my dedication as he imagined my struggling throught the snow to get to the office.
 
wow! I had forgotten about that. Oh what tangled webs we weave........
I remember not thinking he was a liar when I read it in the book, but you're right-very deceitful and he was pleased with himself. Interesting. Thanks to both of you for bringing it up and finding the reference.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
DOI, pb, pg 133

(John is talking about the beginnings of Access Graphics)

Since we were still a very small company, I never mentioned that we were headquartered in the basement of our home, because I wanted our customers to think I was a "big" business. As it turned out, working from my home had both advantages and disadvantages. An advantage: One winter day when the heavy snowfall shut down all business in Atlanta, I was sitting at my desk in my pajamas when a customer called. "Wow, I'm surprised you are there," he said. "How did you get to work this morning?"

"Oh, it really wasn't that bad, " I answered.

The tone of his voice told me how impressed he was with my dedication as he imagined my struggling throught the snow to get to the office.
Click to expand...
Yes that's the story. I think this story tells us something about John Ramsey - i.e. that he lies by omission.

This is just one incident which makes me wary of John Ramsey.
 
Thanks Jayelles and Nuisanceposter,


I had read the book and hadn't really thought too much about that part... very interesting.


DOI was pretty much one big pity party for JR and PR , JonBenet? Who's that? :(




Jubie
 
Can I ask a question here without getting blasted,:truce: because I really am curious. Why would it be a bad thing for JR t say something that would lead a custumer into thinking he got to work in a snowstorm? I had the DOI book but I cant remember all of it so I am unsure of the details. But my point in asking this is, is it really that bad to go along with something like that as he did? I mean does that mean he is a liar in all things because of that? I dont like when people lie, and I instill that in my child, I dont like dishonesty but something like that really isnt out right lying??
 
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