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  1. #1
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    Cutting the screen

    Looking over videos again, I noticed it looks like Darlie made only one trip towards the garage from the kitchen sink. And it looks like she stood by the washer for a while, pretty big blood drops there. Think she was watching Darin cut the screen?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice2
    Looking over videos again, I noticed it looks like Darlie made only one trip towards the garage from the kitchen sink. And it looks like she stood by the washer for a while, pretty big blood drops there. Think she was watching Darin cut the screen?
    I have often wondered that myself. I have also thought maybe she was standing there when she cried out "Darin" which was later misinterpretated to be "Karen." But I don't think it lined up with the 911 call. However I have never taken the time to check it out myself. That tape will probably be the last thing I ever study closely. LOL!

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  3. #3
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    Hadn't thought about that. I was still thinking before 911 call.

    The garage door instead of the front door when yelling Darin. Hmm. The prints and blood on the door look like Darlie closed it. Can't remember if there is testimony as to whether it was open or closed when LE got there. Will have to check.

    But we still have the noise that partially woke up the neighbor, that would have to be the front door. Hmm.

    I've often wondered if D&D waited to stage outside until after the neighbor got home, so they wouldn't accidentaly get caught. Nothing points to this though. Just a thought.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice2
    Looking over videos again, I noticed it looks like Darlie made only one trip towards the garage from the kitchen sink. And it looks like she stood by the washer for a while, pretty big blood drops there. Think she was watching Darin cut the screen?
    That's only one trip towards the garage whilst she was bleeding. It's pretty clear that whoever cut the screen was not bleeding whilst they did so... or at least not bleeding profusely enough to have inevitably left blood marks in the garage. Had Darlie cut the screen during the few minutes of staging there would invariably have been blood traipsed through the garage. So either Darin did it (and I would argue that unless he was completely complict in the crime - which I very sincerely doubt- that he would not have done so during the few minutes of staging) or Darlie did it probably before she attacked the boys or at the very latest before she caused any significant injuries to herself.

    Don't forget that there is blood on the edge of the U-room/garage door. It looks very much to me like Darlie held that door open by grasping onto the edge at some point. If Darin had been in their cutting the screen and she was standing at that door then it is highly unlikely she would have needed to screech his name loudly since he was only a few metres away. It seems more likely that she made her way back to that door to either back up the story she had invented about following the intruder (which is frankly almost beyond belief) or to reassure herself that her earlier staging in the garage would make the grade. In either case I don't see how she could have set foot inside the garage whilst she was bleeding.

    Same goes for the bread knife as well. Whilst she might have wiped it clean (missing the microscopic evidence which was left on it) it is unlikely there would have been no blood transfer that wasn't wiped away if she was bleeding a lot when she used it to cut the screen.

  5. #5
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    Wasn't the gate also blood free and partially open too?
    They that can give up essential liberties to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety-Ben Franklin.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimthecarpetguy
    Wasn't the gate also blood free and partially open too?

    There was no blood on the gate, but I don't recall it being partially open. What I remember hearing is that it was broken (even though they claim Darin fixed it just that day and that it must be lifted while being open because it dragged. For an "intruder(s) to take the time to do that and the close it behind him/them is a ridiculous theory in my opinion. After all, the "intruder(s) knew that Darlie was chasing them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice2
    Hadn't thought about that. I was still thinking before 911 call.

    The garage door instead of the front door when yelling Darin. Hmm. The prints and blood on the door look like Darlie closed it. Can't remember if there is testimony as to whether it was open or closed when LE got there. Will have to check.

    But we still have the noise that partially woke up the neighbor, that would have to be the front door. Hmm.

    I've often wondered if D&D waited to stage outside until after the neighbor got home, so they wouldn't accidentaly get caught. Nothing points to this though. Just a thought.
    Not likely. Gorsuch got called into work that night unexpectedly so they would not have known when he was coming home or probably even that he was gone.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_T
    That's only one trip towards the garage whilst she was bleeding. It's pretty clear that whoever cut the screen was not bleeding whilst they did so... or at least not bleeding profusely enough to have inevitably left blood marks in the garage. Had Darlie cut the screen during the few minutes of staging there would invariably have been blood traipsed through the garage. So either Darin did it (and I would argue that unless he was completely complict in the crime - which I very sincerely doubt- that he would not have done so during the few minutes of staging) or Darlie did it probably before she attacked the boys or at the very latest before she caused any significant injuries to herself.

    Don't forget that there is blood on the edge of the U-room/garage door. It looks very much to me like Darlie held that door open by grasping onto the edge at some point. If Darin had been in their cutting the screen and she was standing at that door then it is highly unlikely she would have needed to screech his name loudly since he was only a few metres away. It seems more likely that she made her way back to that door to either back up the story she had invented about following the intruder (which is frankly almost beyond belief) or to reassure herself that her earlier staging in the garage would make the grade. In either case I don't see how she could have set foot inside the garage whilst she was bleeding.

    Same goes for the bread knife as well. Whilst she might have wiped it clean (missing the microscopic evidence which was left on it) it is unlikely there would have been no blood transfer that wasn't wiped away if she was bleeding a lot when she used it to cut the screen.
    Dani, why are you so glued to the state's timeline?

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimthecarpetguy
    Wasn't the gate also blood free and partially open too?
    No, the dilapidated gate was closed. You would expect a fleeing intruder not to fool with lifting it up and taking the time to close it but according to darlie this one did. No blood past the garage floor right outside the Utility room door and that was probably a transfer from a policeman's shoe. That puts all the blood inside the house.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    Dani, why are you so glued to the state's timeline?
    I'm not glued to it Goody (the other post I recently made in response to your other question along that line should show that).

    All I'm doing is trying to fit the evidence into a hypothetical timeline. For instance I sincerely doubt she could have cut the screen after she had injured herself badly due to the lack of blood in the garage. Same goes for the sock.

    In what ways do you think I am glued to the state's timeline? What alternatives would you offer to what I posted?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_T
    I'm not glued to it Goody (the other post I recently made in response to your other question along that line should show that).

    All I'm doing is trying to fit the evidence into a hypothetical timeline. For instance I sincerely doubt she could have cut the screen after she had injured herself badly due to the lack of blood in the garage. Same goes for the sock.

    In what ways do you think I am glued to the state's timeline? What alternatives would you offer to what I posted?
    I don't remember where the other post is so I guess I missed it.

    I agree with you that she didn't cut the screen after she was inured or run the sock down the alley. So unless this was a cold blooded premeditated murder where she cut the screen before she'd even stabbed the boys, I don't think she did either. She must have had help with it.

    I don't recall exactly what my thoughts were on your timeline. It just seems that we are always trying to make everything fit in that 10 minute timeframe and it seems very possible to me that Devon was killed as much as an hour or more before Damon was even stabbed, and if that is the case, there would have been sufficient time for an innocent Darin to be convinced to protect her and help her. I just can't believe he turned on a dime, going from hysterical father to husband protector in minutes all the while looking at his kids' bloodied bodies. As DK said, Darin is not a cruel man, and I believe that is true. He wasn't a **** and he would have needed time to work his way thru his options. I think Devon was the target and Damon part of the cover up. Or at least I think it is a strong possibility. I just don't buy the state's timeline.

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  12. #12
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    If you believe that Darin is involved (which I think probably 90% of us think he was, just don't know how), then the time line really could have started as early as when Darin took Dana home, 10:30 I think. So I don't see how anyone could put a time line together when you have your choice of 4 hours or 10 minutes.

    I think Darlie bleed slowly for quite a while, that would explain why her vitals were stable when she got in the abulance, her body had time to adjust. If she had bleed that much in 10 minutes I would think it would have showed up.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice2
    If you believe that Darin is involved (which I think probably 90% of us think he was, just don't know how), then the time line really could have started as early as when Darin took Dana home, 10:30 I think. So I don't see how anyone could put a time line together when you have your choice of 4 hours or 10 minutes.

    I think Darlie bleed slowly for quite a while, that would explain why her vitals were stable when she got in the abulance, her body had time to adjust. If she had bleed that much in 10 minutes I would think it would have showed up.
    That is a good point/ It was only small blood vessels ruptured by the cut so that makes sense.,

    "The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goody
    I don't remember where the other post is so I guess I missed it.

    I agree with you that she didn't cut the screen after she was inured or run the sock down the alley. So unless this was a cold blooded premeditated murder where she cut the screen before she'd even stabbed the boys, I don't think she did either. She must have had help with it.

    I don't recall exactly what my thoughts were on your timeline. It just seems that we are always trying to make everything fit in that 10 minute timeframe and it seems very possible to me that Devon was killed as much as an hour or more before Damon was even stabbed, and if that is the case, there would have been sufficient time for an innocent Darin to be convinced to protect her and help her. I just can't believe he turned on a dime, going from hysterical father to husband protector in minutes all the while looking at his kids' bloodied bodies. As DK said, Darin is not a cruel man, and I believe that is true. He wasn't a **** and he would have needed time to work his way thru his options. I think Devon was the target and Damon part of the cover up. Or at least I think it is a strong possibility. I just don't buy the state's timeline.
    LOL- you just said pretty much the same thing as I did in that other post We're on the same page I posted it a few days ago and have copied it below.

    Hey Goody

    I'm actually not convinced that is the case (which is why in my last post I wrote 'But then again maybe we have all misunderstood how the crime happened...).

    I think it is the default that we all run with (at least that I know I have run with) and we've all tried to fit Darlie's staging into those few minutes between Damon's last wound and the time he dies (taking into account the 911). It makes the most sense in many ways. For example we know that the sock had both the boys blood on it so unless it is TOTALLY unconnected to the crime and just happened to have both their blood on it from another time then it makes sense that both the boys were stabbed before at least that part of the staging. On the other hand why is there SO LITTLE blood on it?

    But other things don't fit in with it. WHY was Damon still alive at all if she stabbed them both them moved onto all the staging? Why didn't she stab him again to kill him once and for all? What about the knife outline on the carpet? When did that get there? She was obviously bleeding profusely at that stage. How about the wash up at the sink? And the knife which looks like it was cleaned after being used on Devon but not after Damon and herself? What about the screen? She certainly wasn't bleeding (much) when she cut that.

    So perhaps she killed Devon (who was so like his dad) and then went about staging- cutting the screen, wiping the bread knife, washing the butcher knife etc.

    Perhaps Damon woke up during this (from the noise she was making?), saw Devon, even touched him and got blood on his hand (to leave the so called handprint on the couch). Perhaps he starts crying out or yelling or screaming and Darlie realises that she to cover her own butt not only because Damon has seen her running around staging stuff (not that he would know that at the time really) but also because he is going to draw attention to the scene before she is ready (she hasn't injured herself yet).

    And so she stabs him out of desperation... but maybe because he was not the intended victim all along she just can't bring herself to make sure he is dead. Maybe that's why later on the 911 call she says for him to hang on, to not die. Maybe she is remorseful at that point because she has hurt her little Mamma's boy which was never her intention. Maybe that's why the knife outline is there because at one point she sets it down to go back to Damon not knowing what to do. But at the same time she realises she needs to revert back to plan and stick with her intruder story (because even if Damon DOES pull through the only choice she has is to focus on the here and now and cover her butt).

    And so with Damon mortally wounded but still alive she runs the sock (??? I hate the sock ... where does it fit????), she cuts herself, breaks the wine glass, tries to wash up at the sink, goes towards the garage, looks in whilst holding the door etc, takes a minute to run through her story, and then calls Darin and 911.

    How does it fit? Where does it fall apart (because I am sure it does).
    Regarding Darin- I agree that he simply could not have turned on a dime and decided to protect Darlie. There is no way he came downstairs after she had killed them both and them within the space of a couple of minutes been enlisted into helping her stage the screen. For that to happen they both had to have been sociopaths. It is just far too unlikely.

    But I also have problems with Darin deciding to cover up for her within an hour or so also. I mean just imagine the scene. They've been arguing (we presume) and Darin goes upstairs (maybe they have resolved it maybe not). He comes down a few hours later to find at least one of his sons murdered by his wife, their own mother. For him to decide even within an hour to protect her he has to come to grips with
    a) the fact that she has murdered their own son, Devon, in cold blood
    b) the fact that Damon is still vunerable (presuming he hasn't been injured yet) and could possibly also end up dead
    c) his own wife is a cold blooded child murderer who has shown she is not afraid to use a knife. What's to stop Darin from thinking he's next?

    Why wouldn't he be on the phone right then right there calling 911? Or out the front door screaming for help?

    Within the space of an hour Darin, an ordinary guy who has shown no signs of any kind of sociopathy to our knowledge at all, has to be willing to at the very least protect his own children's killer and at the very worst allow his wife to kill another one of their children. I just do not buy it.

    Unless she had something so BIG on him that he was backed into a corner with absolutely no possible way out and he was so scared by what she could reveal that it took precedence over his children's own lives and has ever sincem then I don't buy it. And I just don't see what that could be.

    Yes, I can see him a few days after both boys have died deciding to protect her despite his suspicions she did it (which is why I think his trial testimony is so different to his affidavit)... probably for a whole range of reasons. but I don't see him being able to work through all of those either within a 5 minute period or an hour or so whilst he stands in the middle of a blood bath.

    In my gut I still think Darin knows more than he is telling (which would make sense since he lived with her and would be able to put more pieces of the puzzle into place). I'm also troubled that he hasn't come out and said anything though can sort of understand why he hasn't (yet). But I just don't see him taking part in the crime whether it be being involved with the murders or actively taking part in the staging to protect her. I honestly think he came downstairs and found both of his kids bleeding on that floor and a wife screaming about some intruder. I think he believed her then and there (who wouldn't in that circumstance no matter how much you had argued earlier? Who would automatically think on the spot that their own mother could have done that to them?) but later (maybe not even too much later) began to see the holes in her story.

  15. #15
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    If you believe that Darin is involved (which I think probably 90% of us think he was, just don't know how), then the time line really could have started as early as when Darin took Dana home, 10:30 I think. So I don't see how anyone could put a time line together when you have your choice of 4 hours or 10 minutes.
    Wouldn't the paramedics/coroner etc been able to tell if Devon had been dead hours before the so-called attack? Body temp etc?

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