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Thread: Cheerleader in Hawaii - accident my arse!

  1. #1
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    Cheerleader in Hawaii - accident my arse!

    http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040115_132.html

    Accident??!! An 18 year old girl falls naked from the balcony of two men whom she had never met before and it's an accident? The evidence shows no sign of sexual assault? Probably because she managed to wriggle away from her tormentors for a moment and chose to jump rather than be raped - or she was pushed or thrown.

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    What do you want to bet those two young men beat it back to California ASAP?

    Her family back home in NJ are in shock... so far away and helpless to do anything but sit by the phone

    This is a very sad story

  3. #3
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    OK. My hinky meter's going with this one:

    Young women are vain, she certainly would not commit suicide in the nude in a public place so far from home. Suicide is out for me.

    These young men claim they fell asleep early in the night??? Excuse me, I have PARTIED in my time, and I stayed up until no more fun was to be had. Well into the wee hours of the morning! What young men will fall asleep with a night of partying ahead of them while on vacation in Hawaii with some cute girl in their room? And BOTH of them fall asleep? No way!! Absolutely not!!!!

    This girl's parents must be devastated. Think of the trust they placed in others when their daughter flew across the ocean on that fateful trip. I hope some fur flies on this one!

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    I don't believe this was an "accident" either. The police need to continue investigating these "young men". I hope they haven't released them to leave the state! Sounds like probably partying that got "out of control" and these guys had plenty of time to come up with a "cover up story" to tell the cops. Wonder if anyone in any of the adjoining rooms heard anything? I, too, feel very sad for the girls parents being so far away and thinking their daughter was going to be going away for a week and having a great time in Maui. The Hyatt in Maui is a wonderful hotel (I have been there many times over the years) and I am sure the owner and employees are also very saddened by this very tragic event.

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    Do you think this was an accident like what if she had to puke and leaned her head over the balcony and got dizzy and fell? Doesn't explain why she was naked with two "sleeping" boys. I'd be curious to know where the clothes were found, were the ripped, stretched out, etc. Who else partied with them that night. Girls usually travel in at least twos. This is such bull. Who served them alcohol? Did the boys also consume alcohol. Were date rape drugs involved. ARen't there some that cannot be detected? Hmmm.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared
    http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040115_132.html

    Accident??!! An 18 year old girl falls naked from the balcony of two men whom she had never met before and it's an accident? The evidence shows no sign of sexual assault? Probably because she managed to wriggle away from her tormentors for a moment and chose to jump rather than be raped - or she was pushed or thrown.
    You are right on target with my thoughts. Sorry, but you can't get me to believe that this was an accident with the girl being naked...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casshew
    What do you want to bet those two young men beat it back to California ASAP?

    This is a very sad story
    I bet they left pronto. It would not surprise me if the girl passed out, to awaken to see that her clothes had been removed, and she was trying to escape. Unfortunately, I just don't see how they are going to be able to prove anything--unless one of the guy turns on the other. However, I highly doubt this will ever happen.

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    I've been concerned about this case. After all, rails are there; very few people fall off those hotel floors. She is young, she voluntarily went to their room, it was undoubtedly for sex.
    I doubt anything happened. If she changed her mind, the two men might simply have told her ''too late to say no, now'' but they would have been unlikely to throw her off the balcony. And I can't quite imagine that even a slightly inebriated 18 year old girl not knowing its best to just lie there and stare at the ceiling while waiting for them to finish with her than to go traipsing around a hotel balcony.
    Its very disturbing, but I don't see it as suicide and I can't quite see two young men tossing her out the window without having had sex with her first. Can't see any reason for tossing her out the window anyway. Hotels have cameras police would know which room she was in, the two boys are registered at the hotel. Doesn't seem a sensible murder plot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth
    I've been concerned about this case. After all, rails are there; very few people fall off those hotel floors. She is young, she voluntarily went to their room, it was undoubtedly for sex.
    I doubt anything happened. If she changed her mind, the two men might simply have told her ''too late to say no, now'' but they would have been unlikely to throw her off the balcony. And I can't quite imagine that even a slightly inebriated 18 year old girl not knowing its best to just lie there and stare at the ceiling while waiting for them to finish with her than to go traipsing around a hotel balcony.
    Its very disturbing, but I don't see it as suicide and I can't quite see two young men tossing her out the window without having had sex with her first. Can't see any reason for tossing her out the window anyway. Hotels have cameras police would know which room she was in, the two boys are registered at the hotel. Doesn't seem a sensible murder plot.
    Couldn't the young girl have gone up to the hotel room to continue the party and have more drinks? What if she was already drunk when she entered the room? What if she passed out on the bed, only to wake up with her clothes removed and she panicked? Being disoriented and trying to get away, couldn't she have run out on the balcony while being chased by the boys? There is no way that I believe this is an accident or suicide. The boys know more, but I highly doubt the true story will ever come to light.

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    Heres an update as an attorney has now joined the investigation.

    http://www.mauinews.com/news/story/0...torney0117.asp

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    I am not sure how to make that link show up so if anyone wants to read an update on this you can go to www.mauinews.com and click under local news and there are a couple of articles. One states an attorney has joined the investigation into the cheerleaders death. It provides a recent update.

  12. #12
    The news article said those rails were so high one would have to climb over them. There's something very strange going on here; it doesn't add up. I wonder if she was drugged--some of those date rape drugs leave the body very quickly.

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    pyramid

    Just speculating here...but if this girl had been drinking, is it possible she could have been showing off by climbing onto the rails to do some type of pyramid type stunt. It would be stupid, I know, but I also know I was a pretty stupid teenager.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jat
    Just speculating here...but if this girl had been drinking, is it possible she could have been showing off by climbing onto the rails to do some type of pyramid type stunt. It would be stupid, I know, but I also know I was a pretty stupid teenager.
    But naked??? This is one really disturbing death, I hope those boys cough up some real answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanandjim
    Couldn't the young girl have gone up to the hotel room to continue the party and have more drinks? What if she was already drunk when she entered the room? What if she passed out on the bed, only to wake up with her clothes removed and she panicked?
    She was not drunk, she was not 'tipsy'; she merely had been drinking.

    I doubt that she would have panicked at waking up naked; she didn't go to that room for any purpose that involved not getting naked.

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    Somehow, it seems VERY strange that two young men would notice that the naked girl is gone but fail to notice that she left behind her clothing and her handbag.

    I'm sure most forum members are aware that the two young men were more interested in her body than her clothing, but its a bit hard to understand their having been so unconcerned with the departure of the girl in the first place much less her departure while naked. It appears they had several hours during which they could have altered the crime scene.

    Perhaps this is the "entertainment" that they really had in mind for her all along?
    Seems strange to do it from their own room though. And why would two weirdoes want to throw her off the balcony without her having been used first.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jat
    Just speculating here...but if this girl had been drinking, is it possible she could have been showing off by climbing onto the rails to do some type of pyramid type stunt. It would be stupid, I know, but I also know I was a pretty stupid teenager.
    I don't think she intended to demonstrate her abilities while naked and vertical on a ninth floor railing; she went there to demonstrate her abilities while naked and horizontal on a ninth floor bed.

    I think what may have happened is that she was not sufficiently skilled in such a situation and did not realize that once she had enjoyed the attentions of one of the young men she was not able to decline the attentions of the other young man. Alcohol, exhaustion or inexperience may have all combined to induce her to make an unwise decision regarding the attentions of the second man and he may have reacted more violently and in a different manner than would normally be expected in such circumstances. Rather than rape, he threw her out!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth
    Rather than rape, he threw her out!
    I know there are forensic techniques to determine with some degree of certainty if she were thrown outward from the balcony or toppled off it, but I imagine that takes time and there is a zone of uncertainty about such things anyway.

    I just can't come up with any other scenario. The two men may have decided to 'hang together' on this. It appears she only had sex with one of them and may have been too inexperienced to know that in such a situation her consent to one is a consent to each of them or there may be trouble.

    I can't see her geting out of the bed and 'thinking the balcony was the way to the bathroom' or 'taking her own life because one of them just told her he has aids'. She went with two men to their hotel room but had sex with only one of them. Thats risky behavior. She may not have known that. Or she may have thought the risk was solely sexual. It appears she may have had seven seconds to regret her decision to say no to the second man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth
    ...I doubt that she would have panicked at waking up naked; she didn't go to that room for any purpose that involved not getting naked.
    I remember when I was a teenager. I was very trusting and naive. I could see this young girl being invited to the boys' room. Perhaps, she was just going to have fun and did find one of the boys cute. However, I just can't see this girl going to the room, thinking that she would have sex with one of them in front of the other one. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I can believe that they did slip something into her drink which made her pass out. Then, they undressed her. I just don't believe this girl is going to willingly get naked in front of two strangers.

    Or, maybe she went to the room after being invited there by one guy, without knowing that another guy was already in the room. I might be afraid to go to a room alone with two guys, unless I brought a friend along. Now that I think about it, I would probably be afraid to go to a hotel room alone with one guy. But they were in Paradise, which may have caused her to let her guard down.

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    This is on one of the linked pages bluehawaii found

    Preliminary testing showed traces of alcohol in Crossan's blood, Faaumu said, but don't show her level of intoxication.

    According to this article, the toxicology reports won't be available for another week or two. This will tell the investigators the level of intoxication in the girls' blood. This may, or may not, provide an important clue. It's importance IMV rests upon what her habits are with respect to alcohol. If she's not used to consuming alcohol at all then any amount would make her more than a little tipsy. A large amount, particularly if she isn't a 'drinker', could definitely make her disoriented. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she leaped off the balcony in a highly intoxicated state if it's shown she's not used to alcoholic beverages. It wouldn't have to be a conscious state of suicide but be an intoxicated state of not knowing what the hell you're doing.

    That said, however, I'm suspicious that there may be another or even several others who were in that room that these two guys are not telling about. All 3 of these were underage to buy alcohol. Who supplied it? Was that somebody in the room? Are they protecting that somebody for a reason? Could that somebody really be the key to the mystery of what happened?

  22. #22
    I'd like some background information on those two fellas. Does either have a record? Has either been involved in any kind of suspicious activity before? They were in Hawaii "on vacation." Where did they get the funding for this trip? How do they know one another; what is their past history together?

  23. #23
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    All good questions, particularly the financial part. Are they on vacation from the violent world of drug dealing or from Seminary School? It makes a difference. From their ages, I assume they are merely from the town of Folsom and not from the prison there.
    Most young men in a situation like that would rape the woman who tried to say 'no' to the second man after having said 'yes' to the first one. She may not have understood what was to happen or she may have tried to change her mind. If necessary, some men would have first made her fearful of some real damage to her face, but even with some of that happening, I don't think an 18 year old slightly tipsy girl is going to be unaware that its better to just lie there and stare at the ceiling while she waits for them to be finished taking turns with her. Maybe they tried some "creative persuasion" ie, threatened to drop her off the balcony and things went too far? I doubt such a 'creative persuasion' would have been necessary though. Most girls would know that the only way out of that hotel room without getting hurt would be to say 'yes' to whatever they wanted for as long as they wanted it, but the "hurt" would have been something like a fist to her face and the fear of it being more than just wearing heavy make-up for a few days. I don't think any 18 year old girl is going to realize its either "horizontal on the bed" or "horizontal on the ground floor cement".

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    I thought that I read that one of the boys "tagged" along with his father for some kind of work-related convention.

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    I've not seen that, but it sure makes sense. After all, they were in Hawaii. It was a resort hotel. There were parties going on. She met the two guys and phoned from their room, but apparently did not say which room she was in. She apparently intended to leave that room fairly soon and may not have intended any sex or atleast any further(?) sex. She was not alarmed in any way during the phone call and did not seem the least bit apprehensive. So how if that was her view did she get naked voluntarily if she was on her way back to her friends. I think when she tried to leave they decided it was time to 'party' with her and she may have had other views on that point.
    However, it appears that there was no bruising indicative of a recent rape.

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