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Kitty5001

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Ok further investigation leaves me with the following questions:

1. There is no mention anywhere about the baseball cap that was found by the washer/ window where the alleged killer escaped-what happened to that and was it ever examined for dna?? (This was listed in the book Hush Little Babies)

2. What about the 2 fingerprints on the widow where the alleged killer escaped? Were these ever taken and anyone ruled out (also in the book)?

3. No Blood on the knife from Devon-how is that possible?

4. There was no blood on the couch where she alleges she was stabbed/slashed BUT her pillow she was laying on was covered in blood-why is this not mentioned anywhere?

5. There was mention of blood on a sign in the garage?

6. There was more than 3 people that state they saw the dark car around the area including Basia and her mother that was against Darlie. Even on the day of the murders.

7. They say one of the main reasons they state there was NOT an intruder is because there was no blood outside the utility room-back to the bloody sock- if she planted it after she killed the kids then she would have had to trail blood out of the house and there was none.

8. The hair found on the sock was found to be from either a deer or elk-where did than come from. Maybe someone who was a hunter?

9. If she were to slice the screen herself, why wouldn't she use the same knife for the stabbings? If she thought that far ahead for planning this entire thing she would have planted more evidence outside the house, there would have been blood on that window and outside trailing to the sock etc. logically speaking.

10. The timeline from stabbing to 911 call and death leaves no time for staging and slashing/stabbing of ones self? There are holes in the timing.

I am still on the fence here the more and more I think about it back and forth.
 
I read yesterday on a court document link that the bloody fingerprint was identified as darlies.And I read that the court documents pertaining to the sighting of dark car and suspects, were more than a mile away .
 

I answered you yesterday, then lost it before I posted it. I wasn't about to type it all out again. I don't know about the cap or the prints on the window. I do know that Don Davis got many things wrong. I can answer some of the Q's though and I'll try to later.
 
Ok further investigation leaves me with the following questions: Hi. I'll post my reply in caps, ok? Not yelling

1. There is no mention anywhere about the baseball cap that was found by the washer/ window where the alleged killer escaped-what happened to that and was it ever examined for dna?? (This was listed in the book Hush Little Babies)
THIS HAT BELONGED TO DARIN ROUTIER. IT WAS FOUND IN THE WASHROOM QUITE A WAY FROM THE ALLEDGED "ESCAPE" ROUTE.

2. What about the 2 fingerprints on the widow where the alleged killer escaped? Were these ever taken and anyone ruled out (also in the book)?
THERE ARE NO FINGERPRINTS THERE AS I REMEMBER, BUT ON THE LAUNDRY ROOM DOOR. THEY WERE SMEARS IN DARLIE'S BLOOD, BUT OTHERWISE UNABLE TO BE TYPED.

3. No Blood on the knife from Devon-how is that possible? SHE WASHED THE KNIVES APPARENTLY (ONE SHE UNWITTINGLY PUT BACK INTO THE BLOCK). THE SHAFT AREA OF THE HANDLE WAS NEVER CHECKED.

4. There was no blood on the couch where she alleges she was stabbed/slashed BUT her pillow she was laying on was covered in blood-why is this not mentioned anywhere?
IT IS ACTUALLY MENTIONED IN SEVERAL PLACES. A COUCH IS NOT A MOVABLE OBJECT, HOWEVER A PILLOW IS. THEREFORE A PILLOW CANNOT DEFINE "WHERE".
5. There was mention of blood on a sign in the garage?
IT WAS NOT BLOOD. IT WAS CHERRY POPSICLE.

6. There was more than 3 people that state they saw the dark car around the area including Basia and her mother that was against Darlie. Even on the day of the murders.
DARK OR BLACK IS = TO "BAD" IN OUR WORLD. AN UNFORTUNATE AND IGNORANT FACT OF SOCIETY. FIND A SPOT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, ANYWHERE, AND COUNT THE AMOUNT OF BLACK CARS YOU SEE WITHIN TWO HOURS. HECK COUNT WHITE ONES AND RED ONES TOO FOR THAT MATTER. IF THERE IS A MURDER, YOU WILL REMEMBER THE BLACK ONE.

7. They say one of the main reasons they state there was NOT an intruder is because there was no blood outside the utility room-back to the bloody sock- if she planted it after she killed the kids then she would have had to trail blood out of the house and there was none.
THERE WAS BLOOD OUTSIDE THE HOME....ON THE SOCK. (AS WELL AS HER DNA ON THE INSIDE OF THE SOCK IN THE HEEL AREA)

8. The hair found on the sock was found to be from either a deer or elk-where did than come from. Maybe someone who was a hunter?
TRANSFER CAN HAPPEN IN MANY WAYS..........ESPECIALLY IN AN ALLEYWAY, IN WHAT WAS THEN NEWLY DEVELOPED, OUTDOORS, ACCESSABLE TO EVERY HOME IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA. THE HAIR IS NOT A FACTOR.

9. If she were to slice the screen herself, why wouldn't she use the same knife for the stabbings? If she thought that far ahead for planning this entire thing she would have planted more evidence outside the house, there would have been blood on that window and outside trailing to the sock etc. logically speaking. SHE COULDN'T USE THE SAME KNIFE. THE MURDER WEAPON WAS BY THEN, (imo) BLOODY.

10. The timeline from stabbing to 911 call and death leaves no time for staging and slashing/stabbing of ones self? There are holes in the timing.
IT DOES, AS I HAVE PROOVED.

I am still on the fence here the more and more I think about it back and forth
ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE EVIDENCE, YOU WILL NO LONGER BE ON THE FENCE.
 
http://justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/rfrancis-final.php

dasgal said:
Ok further investigation leaves me with the following questions: Hi. I'll post my reply in caps, ok? Not yelling

1. There is no mention anywhere about the baseball cap that was found by the washer/ window where the alleged killer escaped-what happened to that and was it ever examined for dna?? (This was listed in the book Hush Little Babies)
THIS HAT BELONGED TO DARIN ROUTIER. IT WAS FOUND IN THE WASHROOM QUITE A WAY FROM THE ALLEDGED "ESCAPE" ROUTE.

2. What about the 2 fingerprints on the widow where the alleged killer escaped? Were these ever taken and anyone ruled out (also in the book)?
THERE ARE NO FINGERPRINTS THERE AS I REMEMBER, BUT ON THE LAUNDRY ROOM DOOR. THEY WERE SMEARS IN DARLIE'S BLOOD, BUT OTHERWISE UNABLE TO BE TYPED.

3. No Blood on the knife from Devon-how is that possible? SHE WASHED THE KNIVES APPARENTLY (ONE SHE UNWITTINGLY PUT BACK INTO THE BLOCK). THE SHAFT AREA OF THE HANDLE WAS NEVER CHECKED.

4. There was no blood on the couch where she alleges she was stabbed/slashed BUT her pillow she was laying on was covered in blood-why is this not mentioned anywhere?
IT IS ACTUALLY MENTIONED IN SEVERAL PLACES. A COUCH IS NOT A MOVABLE OBJECT, HOWEVER A PILLOW IS. THEREFORE A PILLOW CANNOT DEFINE "WHERE".
5. There was mention of blood on a sign in the garage?
IT WAS NOT BLOOD. IT WAS CHERRY POPSICLE.

6. There was more than 3 people that state they saw the dark car around the area including Basia and her mother that was against Darlie. Even on the day of the murders.
DARK OR BLACK IS = TO "BAD" IN OUR WORLD. AN UNFORTUNATE AND IGNORANT FACT OF SOCIETY. FIND A SPOT IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, ANYWHERE, AND COUNT THE AMOUNT OF BLACK CARS YOU SEE WITHIN TWO HOURS. HECK COUNT WHITE ONES AND RED ONES TOO FOR THAT MATTER. IF THERE IS A MURDER, YOU WILL REMEMBER THE BLACK ONE.

7. They say one of the main reasons they state there was NOT an intruder is because there was no blood outside the utility room-back to the bloody sock- if she planted it after she killed the kids then she would have had to trail blood out of the house and there was none.
THERE WAS BLOOD OUTSIDE THE HOME....ON THE SOCK. (AS WELL AS HER DNA ON THE INSIDE OF THE SOCK IN THE HEEL AREA)

8. The hair found on the sock was found to be from either a deer or elk-where did than come from. Maybe someone who was a hunter?
TRANSFER CAN HAPPEN IN MANY WAYS..........ESPECIALLY IN AN ALLEYWAY, IN WHAT WAS THEN NEWLY DEVELOPED, OUTDOORS, ACCESSABLE TO EVERY HOME IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA. THE HAIR IS NOT A FACTOR.

9. If she were to slice the screen herself, why wouldn't she use the same knife for the stabbings? If she thought that far ahead for planning this entire thing she would have planted more evidence outside the house, there would have been blood on that window and outside trailing to the sock etc. logically speaking. SHE COULDN'T USE THE SAME KNIFE. THE MURDER WEAPON WAS BY THEN, (imo) BLOODY.

10. The timeline from stabbing to 911 call and death leaves no time for staging and slashing/stabbing of ones self? There are holes in the timing.
IT DOES, AS I HAVE PROOVED.

I am still on the fence here the more and more I think about it back and forth
ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE EVIDENCE, YOU WILL NO LONGER BE ON THE FENCE.
Click to expand...
I never thought in that order, but you are right! she cut the screen after and the knife was bloody. I always just viewed it in my mind in sequence of a "real " intruder" 1st the screen then the kids, then the coverup. I agree, she had to choose another "dry" knife.
 
Delores said:
http://justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/rfrancis-final.php

I never thought in that order, but you are right! she cut the screen after and the knife was bloody. I always just viewed it in my mind in sequence of a "real " intruder" 1st the screen then the kids, then the coverup. I agree, she had to choose another "dry" knife.
Click to expand...
Hi Delores,
Here is kinda a "thumbnail" of what I believe. I believe Darlie was feeling frumpy because Darin was telling her she was. I believe she was upset as to the time Darin spent driving her pretty sister home, although even imagined. I believe that she did ask for a separation that night, hence all the drama with the wedding dress and photo albums. I believe she meant to commit suicide after taking the precious boys that she and Darin loved so much. I don't think she intended to chicken out. So yes, the staging was definately after the murders, imo.
 
For #2 :
There were fingerprints (2 of them) on the window where the screen was cut the others ones were the utility/laundry door, the counter and more recently on the glass table.

For #4:
The pillow was on the floor just by the couch head area -where it would be expected to be found if struggle ensued.

For #6:
Basia's mother specifically stated that the black car she saw was in or near the driveway of the Routier house not miles away.

For #7: What I meant by blood outside the home was on the mulch or the window, fence or the street leading up to the sock -there was none.

For #10: You are talking about mere minutes I think it was 4 max to stab both kids, run the sock down the alley 75 yards away, run back home, cut your throat and arm etc., slash the nightshirt, deposit the blood on the pillow, clean up the sink area, then call 911 -all in 4 minutes or less and in a straight frame of mind? Seriously?
 
Kitty5001 said:
For #2 :
There were fingerprints (2 of them) on the window where the screen was cut the others ones were the utility/laundry door, the counter and more recently on the glass table.

For #4:
The pillow was on the floor just by the couch head area -where it would be expected to be found if struggle ensued.

For #6:
Basia's mother specifically stated that the black car she saw was in or near the driveway of the Routier house not miles away.

For #7: What I meant by blood outside the home was on the mulch or the window, fence or the street leading up to the sock -there was none.

For #10: You are talking about mere minutes I think it was 4 max to stab both kids, run the sock down the alley 75 yards away, run back home, cut your throat and arm etc., slash the nightshirt, deposit the blood on the pillow, clean up the sink area, then call 911 -all in 4 minutes or less and in a straight frame of mind? Seriously?
Click to expand...
Kitty, (get ready you guys!)....I am an ex member of Homicide Investigators of Texas. I was an investigator with Wise County for a number of years after being a cop in Fort Worth for many years before that. I can read the evidence. The real evidence, and not what you read in some book written by a guy trying to get to his publisher before all the other guys made it.
1.
As I recall, there were NOT fingerprints on the ledge of the garage screen.

2.
A pillow can be found wherever the hell you want it to be found. What did it weigh? Less than a pound? Darlie did her darndest to make it look like there was an intruder. Blood evidence, and there was a mountain of it against her, made more logical sense than one movable peice of fabric bound batting.

3. Basia. Now there is one for the kooks. One day, as an experiment, I counted something like 20 someodd black cars driving by my house in a suburban Dallas neighborhood. Notice, Basia nor anyone else named a make or model. Why? Because black = bad. Just like a red car will most likely be ticketed for speeding. It's just a statistical truth.

4. Well then you should realize the obvious. Neither Darlie nor anyone else went out the garage window.

5. Have you even read my timeline???? First of all, so many people have the misconseption that she was on a landline phone.....she was not. She was on a cordless. You also might be unaware, that when forensic sound was done on the 911 call, she was moving back and forth from the kitchen to the living room, back to the kitchen and then to the garage. (You can tell by the pitch and echos).
 
By the way Kitty, memory fails me at the moment, but your timing is wrong on the 4 minutes. I think it was closer to 8-12 minutes after the last attack on Devon.
 
dasgal-
I investigate claims all day and from my experience: ok if your theory is correct then she would have had to either premeditate the murders or realize what she did immediately after the fact-don't you think that the cover up would have been a little better (more obvious)-more evidence of a struggle, more than one glass broken, front door open or something like that –you make her sound like she was so smart (in order to do all this in a small amount of time-self inflict wounds, come up with a story etc) and if you did murder someone or your own family members I don’t think your head would be that clear to make those kind of staging decisions that intelligently in such short notice. I mean had there been blood outside the house trailing or on the window going out the garage or on the fence- people would have had their doubts. If you are going to stage a scene how would you do it? How would most people do it? If you wanted someone to believe there was an intruder on a quick notice, I wouldn’t break one glass, move a plant arrangement over on it’s side and cut a screen- since she pointed out where the alleged intruder went out she could have just left the window wide open and no need to cut a screen. There would be many broken glasses, things off the counter in the kitchen on the floor, including jewlery and the window wide open, the arrangement would be on the floor and stepped on and whatever else I could find. That would be a scene that was staged by a frantic person or an actual fight not a calm person who was thinking clearly and doing things slowly and methodically- which cannot be done by someone bleeding to death who just committed double murder. The 911 call was made at 2:31
 
Kitty5001 said:
dasgal-
I investigate claims all day and from my experience: ok if your theory is correct then she would have had to either premeditate the murders or realize what she did immediately after the fact-don't you think that the cover up would have been a little better (more obvious)-more evidence of a struggle, more than one glass broken, front door open or something like that –you make her sound like she was so smart (in order to do all this in a small amount of time-self inflict wounds, come up with a story etc) and if you did murder someone or your own family members I don’t think your head would be that clear to make those kind of staging decisions that intelligently in such short notice. I mean had there been blood outside the house trailing or on the window going out the garage or on the fence- people would have had their doubts. If you are going to stage a scene how would you do it? How would most people do it? If you wanted someone to believe there was an intruder on a quick notice, I wouldn’t break one glass, move a plant arrangement over on it’s side and cut a screen- since she pointed out where the alleged intruder went out she could have just left the window wide open and no need to cut a screen. There would be many broken glasses, things off the counter in the kitchen on the floor, including jewlery and the window wide open, the arrangement would be on the floor and stepped on and whatever else I could find. That would be a scene that was staged by a frantic person or an actual fight not a calm person who was thinking clearly and doing things slowly and methodically- which cannot be done by someone bleeding to death who just committed double murder. The 911 call was made at 2:31
Click to expand...


Premeditation can mean less than an hour. I think that's entirely likely.
And, she wasn't bleeding to death. Not even close.
 
There couldn't have been any premeditation if she used the dry knife to cut the screen because the other one was bloody.
 
Kitty5001 said:
dasgal-
I investigate claims all day and from my experience: ok if your theory is correct then she would have had to either premeditate the murders or realize what she did immediately after the fact-don't you think that the cover up would have been a little better (more obvious)-more evidence of a struggle, more than one glass broken, front door open or something like that –you make her sound like she was so smart (in order to do all this in a small amount of time-self inflict wounds, come up with a story etc) and if you did murder someone or your own family members I don’t think your head would be that clear to make those kind of staging decisions that intelligently in such short notice. I mean had there been blood outside the house trailing or on the window going out the garage or on the fence- people would have had their doubts. If you are going to stage a scene how would you do it? How would most people do it? If you wanted someone to believe there was an intruder on a quick notice, I wouldn’t break one glass, move a plant arrangement over on it’s side and cut a screen- since she pointed out where the alleged intruder went out she could have just left the window wide open and no need to cut a screen. There would be many broken glasses, things off the counter in the kitchen on the floor, including jewlery and the window wide open, the arrangement would be on the floor and stepped on and whatever else I could find. That would be a scene that was staged by a frantic person or an actual fight not a calm person who was thinking clearly and doing things slowly and methodically- which cannot be done by someone bleeding to death who just committed double murder. The 911 call was made at 2:31"
Click to expand...
Ok, taking it one by one again:

1. Sorry, no offense intended, but investigating "claims" (medical/automobile?) claims are not quite the same as 15 years in law enforcement looking at crimes and death all day. Especially, not with the specific training that I have on such matters as blood analysis, splatter evidence, lie detection, transfer evidence, ect., ect., ect. If not for my knowledge, I would have never been contacted by this subject's book authors, investigators, supporters, and family. In short, I didn't just read a book. I have spoken to numerous people, on both sides of the argument, personally, on this case. I took a few months out of my life to develope a timeline, and my own blood anaylsis. Something that frankly the prosecution did not have the time or resources to pay someone like me to do. I have a great understanding of this case. You may take this as a wild brag. That would be your puragative to do.

2. Evidence to your naitivity is held in the above statement.
a. first you want to say she doesn't have the time to do it.
b. you say she doesn't have the brains to do it.
c. you say it was planned.
(All three are false, IMO)

She did have the time. She wasn't great at it, or else she wouldn't have been so immediately discovered, and no, it wasn't planned. That is why there is such a crap job done to conceal the fact. You are right in one respect, in a kinda sorta way. She had time, but not ENOUGH TIME. There is a vast difference here. She had time to do what she thought would throw people off, but not time enough to do it well. She also wasn't really bright about how to do it. She wasn't someone who studied this sort of thing, so she had no idea how to do it well. A few jumbled items don't make a crime scene. She had an idea maybe from TV shows, but I think that was probably the extent of her knowledge.
And IF you would have read my above statements.........IF you would have held an open mind...........IF you would not have been ruffled by someone who is more educated in these specific matters than you were.....you would have noticed that I had in no way said that this murder was premeditated. Quite the opposite. IMO, they were not. It was a spur of the moment deal, and also IMO this is clearly seen in the half a$$ed cover up.
As far as the timeline goes, I get it. I always have. Who do you think she is talking to when she says "Hold On". She is talking to herself. In her self pity, she thinks she is dying, when in fact, dispite how close she came to her main artery, is no where near death.
You know, we can bat this back and forth all day. You obviously are stuck with the feeling that she didn't do it. I can give you volumes and volumes of how she did, why I think she did, and the evidence that I believes backs me up on the facts.
It's up to you now.
 
Kitty5001 said:
There couldn't have been any premeditation if she used the dry knife to cut the screen because the other one was bloody.
Click to expand...

Sure could. We don't know what order she did it in. That leaves the possibility open.
 
Kitty5001 said:
There couldn't have been any premeditation if she used the dry knife to cut the screen because the other one was bloody.
Click to expand...
Not true. I do not believe Darlie meant to be a victim. I think she was injured somehow in the struggle with one of the boys. I think she did premeditate the murder, but only by a short time. As far as staging, I'm not sure how far ahead she thought. So if she decided to cut the screen after the stabbings, and used the bread knife for it, that doesn't prove there was no premeditation. There are too many other things which point to it
 
Kitty5001 said:
For #2 :
There were fingerprints (2 of them) on the window where the screen was cut the others ones were the utility/laundry door, the counter and more recently on the glass table.

they were on the underside of the window and were small, considered to be the boys, who would pop the screen off and cliimb in to get popsickles from the freezer


For #4:
The pillow was on the floor just by the couch head area -where it would be expected to be found if struggle ensued.

??? and expected if Darlie threw or placed it there. If she was stabbed in her sleep as she alleges where is the blood on the sofa? Boy boys have been stabbed by this time, the knife would have been dripping blood wouldn't it?

For #6:
Basia's mother specifically stated that the black car she saw was in or near the driveway of the Routier house not miles away.

No make, no model, no license plate no., no description of occupants? No black car seen speeding away from the house after the murders that night. The black car did not commit the murders.

For #7: What I meant by blood outside the home was on the mulch or the window, fence or the street leading up to the sock -there was none.

That's correct. Only means Darlie was outside cutting the screen and getting rid of the sock before her injuries were inflicted or she had an accomplice who put the sock in the alley. A bloody intruder could not have passed through there and not left any blood either.

For #10: You are talking about mere minutes I think it was 4 max to stab both kids, run the sock down the alley 75 yards away, run back home, cut your throat and arm etc., slash the nightshirt, deposit the blood on the pillow, clean up the sink area, then call 911 -all in 4 minutes or less and in a straight frame of mind? Seriously?
Click to expand...

Where are you getting the four minute time line? The timeline in this crime starts with the 911 call.
 
I took a few months out of my life to develope a timeline, and my own blood anaylsis. Something that frankly the prosecution did not have the time or resources to pay someone like me to do. I have a great understanding of this case. You may take this as a wild brag. That would be your puragative to do.



Opps, Just reread this. I meant, after the fact, after more was known. The guys on the case were top notch.
 
dasgal said:
By the way Kitty, memory fails me at the moment, but your timing is wrong on the 4 minutes. I think it was closer to 8-12 minutes after the last attack on Devon.
Click to expand...
M.E. opined that Damon could have lived 8-10 mins after his fatal stab wound. Is Kitty talking about Damon or Devon?
 
beesy said:
Ok, let me try to smooth this out because you are misunderstanding what dasgal said. The bloody fingerprint and smears on the UR door are in Darlie's blood. The bloody print is too smeared to even be identified, but the donor of the blood is and it's Darlie's. That is what dasgal was saying. According to Linch's testimony the red substance on the sign in the garage was either Kool-Aid or popsicle. The sign was in the garage, not the UR. As far a motive, there is a reason the prosecution doesn't have to prove motive, because it is very elusive at times. Think of the The Perfect Storm Theory. Three huge storms joining to create the worst storm in years. Take that idea and apply it to this case. You've got depression, stress, lack of sleep, money troubles, hubby troubles and we can go on forever. Lots of people have these problems and don't kill, right? Well Darlie did and there is no real one reason alone.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. I am impressed.
 
I had trouble reading that print too.

I think the prosecutor, having no "definate" motive, just threw everything out there about their finances, because he knew that it had something to do with why she snapped and that Darlie and Darin would lie about it.
 
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