Black fibres on the thigh and crotch areas of the body

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aussiesheila

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There were black fibres found around JonBenet's crotch area and on her upper thighs.

People have arrived at the conclusion that her body was wiped down with a black cloth after death.

It is also possible that the fibres were deposited on her body while she was still alive and came from one or a number of black woollen balaclava(s), the type that covers the whole head with two eye holes and a mouth hole.

In my scenario the pedophiles had her standing on a chair with arms stretched up above her head while they stood around manipulating the neck ligature and possibly a stungun. The one whose turn it was for the actual molestation could have been wearing one of these balaclavas which left its fibres on those areas of her body where they were found, at the same time preventing head and beard hair from being transferred to those places.
 
The black fibers are from John's black wool shirt, made in Israel. See the August 2000 interviews.
 
aussiesheila said:
There were black fibres found around JonBenet's crotch area and on her upper thighs.

People have arrived at the conclusion that her body was wiped down with a black cloth after death.

It is also possible that the fibres were deposited on her body while she was still alive and came from one or a number of black woollen balaclava(s), the type that covers the whole head with two eye holes and a mouth hole.

In my scenario the pedophiles had her standing on a chair with arms stretched up above her head while they stood around manipulating the neck ligature and possibly a stungun. The one whose turn it was for the actual molestation could have been wearing one of these balaclavas which left its fibres on those areas of her body where they were found, at the same time preventing head and beard hair from being transferred to those places.
Click to expand...
I remember reading that these black fibers were consistent with fibers from John Ramsey's clothing. Does anyone know more about these crucial fibers found on JB?
 
Britt said:
The black fibers are from John's black wool shirt, made in Israel. See the August 2000 interviews.
Click to expand...

And whats important is that John claims to have neither undressed or read to JonBenet when she was placed in bed on returning from the Whites.

So there was no opportunity for fibers from his shirt to arrive on JonBenet's genitals.

Not unless he used his shirt to wipe JonBenet down, and redressed her in those size-12 pants, removing the blood stained size-6's that appeared to be the result of a violent sexual assault?


.
 
"It is also possible that the fibres were deposited on her body while she was still alive and came from one or a number of black woollen balaclava(s), the type that covers the whole head with two eye holes and a mouth hole.

In my scenario the pedophiles had her standing on a chair with arms stretched up above her head while they stood around manipulating the neck ligature and possibly a stungun. The one whose turn it was for the actual molestation could have been wearing one of these balaclavas which left its fibres on those areas of her body where they were found, at the same time preventing head and beard hair from being transferred to those places."

They'd kind of stand out in a place like that, wouldn't they?

"I remember reading that these black fibers were consistent with fibers from John Ramsey's clothing. Does anyone know more about these crucial fibers found on JB?"

Yeah, I do. (See Section 0202, lines 10-24 of Patsy's interview http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm and Section 0057, lines 21-25 and 0058, line 1 of John's interview. http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm) Go there.

"And whats important is that John claims to have neither undressed or read to JonBenet when she was placed in bed on returning from the Whites.

So there was no opportunity for fibers from his shirt to arrive on JonBenet's genitals.

Not unless he used his shirt to wipe JonBenet down, and redressed her in those size-12 pants, removing the blood stained size-6's that appeared to be the result of a violent sexual assault?"

Which begs even more questions.
 
SuperDave said:
"It is also possible that the fibres were deposited on her body while she was still alive and came from one or a number of black woollen balaclava(s), the type that covers the whole head with two eye holes and a mouth hole.

In my scenario the pedophiles had her standing on a chair with arms stretched up above her head while they stood around manipulating the neck ligature and possibly a stungun. The one whose turn it was for the actual molestation could have been wearing one of these balaclavas which left its fibres on those areas of her body where they were found, at the same time preventing head and beard hair from being transferred to those places."

They'd kind of stand out in a place like that, wouldn't they?

"I remember reading that these black fibers were consistent with fibers from John Ramsey's clothing. Does anyone know more about these crucial fibers found on JB?"

Yeah, I do. (See Section 0202, lines 10-24 of Patsy's interview http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm and Section 0057, lines 21-25 and 0058, line 1 of John's interview. http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-John-Interview-Complete.htm) Go there.

"And whats important is that John claims to have neither undressed or read to JonBenet when she was placed in bed on returning from the Whites.

So there was no opportunity for fibers from his shirt to arrive on JonBenet's genitals.

Not unless he used his shirt to wipe JonBenet down, and redressed her in those size-12 pants, removing the blood stained size-6's that appeared to be the result of a violent sexual assault?"

Which begs even more questions.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links, SuperDave. So the fibers found on JB's genitals were consistent with fibers from John Ramsey's shirt.
This is very damaging evidence pointing to John Ramsey being involved, not necessarily as the perp, but as a helper in the staging. This would confirm my opinion that Patsy would not have had the nerve to pull all this staging through alone.
 
Just for the sake of argument, "what if" the hood was also from Israel, and are they ever made of black wool? Might one ever come as part of a set, with a matching black wool shirt, from Israel?

In some other thread we discussed that the dark fibers were mostly described as dark blue. Now do we also have an expert LE person saying they were definitely black, and consistent with the Israel black wool shirt? For some kind of adult game-playing?
 
UKGuy said:
Not unless he used his shirt to wipe JonBenet down, and redressed her in those size-12 pants, removing the blood stained size-6's that appeared to be the result of a violent sexual assault?
Click to expand...

Can somebody please remind me where the blood-stained size 6s were found? Did Patsy confirm that that pair was worn by JB on the 25th?
 
Can somebody please remind me where the blood-stained size 6s were found? Did Patsy confirm that that pair was worn by JB on the 25th?


I don't think any size 6, blood stanied underware were found.
The size 12 she was wearing at the time she was found had small spots on them that was thought to be blood. It was also noticed that the place on the skin matching the spots did not have any mark on it. So basically these spots would probably come from another wound or maybe it was not blood but something else.
I don't think there were any bleeding wound found on JBR.
She had a nasty rash on her neck, maybe that drew blood initially, the perp could have gotten it on his/her fingers and transferred it to the underware.
Was it ever confirmed that these spots were infact blood.
 
rashomon said:
Thanks for the links, SuperDave. So the fibers found on JB's genitals were consistent with fibers from John Ramsey's shirt.
This is very damaging evidence pointing to John Ramsey being involved
Click to expand...
It sure fits my theory of him sexually assaulting her!:bang:
 
tumble said:
Can somebody please remind me where the blood-stained size 6s were found? Did Patsy confirm that that pair was worn by JB on the 25th?


I don't think any size 6, blood stanied underware were found.
The size 12 she was wearing at the time she was found had small spots on them that was thought to be blood. It was also noticed that the place on the skin matching the spots did not have any mark on it. So basically these spots would probably come from another wound or maybe it was not blood but something else.
I don't think there were any bleeding wound found on JBR.
She had a nasty rash on her neck, maybe that drew blood initially, the perp could have gotten it on his/her fingers and transferred it to the underware.
Was it ever confirmed that these spots were infact blood.
Click to expand...

tumble,

Patsy could not remember when JonBenet last changed her underwear, even what color she was wearing when Patsy placed the white longjohns on her as she was placed in bed on returning from the White's party.

The size-6 underwear is missing, some people think she dressed herself in those size-12's prior to leaving for the White's party.

She was wearing black velvet pants to the White's so there will be fiber transfer both ways.

Given the black fibers from John's shirt have been detected and analysed, we would have known about any others by now, particularly those from her black velvet pants.

So its safe to assume those size-12's were placed on her as part of the staging, after the size-6's were removed and she was wiped down.

Coroner Meyer suggested that she had been sexually assaulted digitally, the blood on her genitals was as a result of this.

You have both parents stating they put their daughter to bed and never saw her again until the following day.

Yet her body in the wine-cellar is contaminated with fibers from both parents. Patsy in multiple aspects, and John specifically to JonBenet's genital area.

So there is forensic evidence to implicate both parents in the staging, now assuming it was all an accident originally, why does it need all this extensive staging, incorporating a sexual assault, ransom note, garroting etc?

Certainly not their reputation or standing, since whatever spin they could place on it, her dead body was to be discovered in their house, that alone is totally out of character with their status, and where they live.

How do you accidentally strangle your own daughter?

Why would you sexually assault your own daughter?

Why would you then attempt to hide this by wiping her down and redressing her in size-12's?

Why would you deposit your own daughters body into a relatively inaccessable location e.g. wine-cellar

All these are not the actions of a parent exhibiting some form of rage!


.
 
UKGuy said:
tumble,

Patsy could not remember when JonBenet last changed her underwear, even what color she was wearing when Patsy placed the white longjohns on her as she was placed in bed on returning from the White's party.

The size-6 underwear is missing, some people think she dressed herself in those size-12's prior to leaving for the White's party.

She was wearing black velvet pants to the White's so there will be fiber transfer both ways.

Given the black fibers from John's shirt have been detected and analysed, we would have known about any others by now, particularly those from her black velvet pants.

So its safe to assume those size-12's were placed on her as part of the staging, after the size-6's were removed and she was wiped down.

Coroner Meyer suggested that she had been sexually assaulted digitally, the blood on her genitals was as a result of this.

You have both parents stating they put their daughter to bed and never saw her again until the following day.

Yet her body in the wine-cellar is contaminated with fibers from both parents. Patsy in multiple aspects, and John specifically to JonBenet's genital area.

So there is forensic evidence to implicate both parents in the staging, now assuming it was all an accident originally, why does it need all this extensive staging, incorporating a sexual assault, ransom note, garroting etc?

Certainly not their reputation or standing, since whatever spin they could place on it, her dead body was to be discovered in their house, that alone is totally out of character with their status, and where they live.

How do you accidentally strangle your own daughter?

Why would you sexually assault your own daughter?

Why would you then attempt to hide this by wiping her down and redressing her in size-12's?

Why would you deposit your own daughters body into a relatively inaccessable location e.g. wine-cellar

All these are not the actions of a parent exhibiting some form of rage!
Click to expand...
Which leaves the head bash, which imo was delivered in a rage.
 
rashomon said:
Which leaves the head bash, which imo was delivered in a rage.
Click to expand...

rashomon,

Yes and all the more likely if it can be shown to have occured first.


.
 
UKGuy:
How do you accidentally strangle your own daughter?

If this was directed to me all I can say is that at the moment I am completely unable to give any scenario how or why JBR received her fatal wounds. This part of the events that fatal night is in clouds for me. At the moment I just try to come up with credible answers to small isolated parts of the story.
Accidental strangulation indeed sound fishy.
 
Some people, myself included, suspect JonBenet may have been grabbed by the collar by the killer in anger, and perhaps it twisted tight around her neck and choked her. Not strangled her, but choked her, maybe even left a mark. I think she was struck on the headlight, most likely by the flashlight, while being choked, and after hearing JonBenet's skull fracture, the perp decided to cover up the choke marks by staging the ligature strangulation - unaware that the head wound hadn't killed her yet.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Some people, myself included, suspect JonBenet may have been grabbed by the collar by the killer in anger, and perhaps it twisted tight around her neck and choked her. Not strangled her, but choked her, maybe even left a mark. I think she was struck on the headlight, most likely by the flashlight, while being choked, and after hearing JonBenet's skull fracture, the perp decided to cover up the choke marks by staging the ligature strangulation - unaware that the head wound hadn't killed her yet.
Click to expand...

Nuisanceposter,

Yes this is also a possibility, some of it fits with the forensic evidence, but its not an accident.

You do not accidently strangle your own daughter, then as a matter of course whack her on the head with a flashlight, thinking hey I better finish her off

This whacking on the head is Ted Bundy tactics, kinda sophisticated for a six-year old girl?


.
 
Nuisanceposter said:
Some people, myself included, suspect JonBenet may have been grabbed by the collar by the killer in anger, and perhaps it twisted tight around her neck and choked her. Not strangled her, but choked her, maybe even left a mark. I think she was struck on the headlight, most likely by the flashlight, while being choked, and after hearing JonBenet's skull fracture, the perp decided to cover up the choke marks by staging the ligature strangulation - unaware that the head wound hadn't killed her yet.
Click to expand...
First I have much trouble with WHY do it.
Then under what circumstances was it done. Just thinking somebody just decided, ok now it is time and just walk up and kill this child is far out. The events leading up to this fatal end is... i am lost for words here...
Keeping me busy with the facts for the moment.
 
tumble said:
UKGuy:
How do you accidentally strangle your own daughter?

If this was directed to me all I can say is that at the moment I am completely unable to give any scenario how or why JBR received her fatal wounds. This part of the events that fatal night is in clouds for me. At the moment I just try to come up with credible answers to small isolated parts of the story.
Accidental strangulation indeed sound fishy.
Click to expand...


tumble

Not really, they are rhetorical.


.
 
"In some other thread we discussed that the dark fibers were mostly described as dark blue. Now do we also have an expert LE person saying they were definitely black, and consistent with the Israel black wool shirt? For some kind of adult game-playing?"

How do you mean?

"Coroner Meyer suggested that she had been sexually assaulted digitally, the blood on her genitals was as a result of this."

Likely. I wonder sometimes (spitballing again) if there hadn't been other incidents like this.

"So there is forensic evidence to implicate both parents in the staging, now assuming it was all an accident originally, why does it need all this extensive staging, incorporating a sexual assault, ransom note, garroting etc?"

When we say accident, we mean it was unintentional.

"Yes and all the more likely if it can be shown to have occured first."

Werner Spitz, Tom Henry and Henry Lee seemed to think it did.
 
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