Passing the buck--something needs to be done

Buzz Mills

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Bravell Jackson, superintendent of Marion County Schools in Alabama, told the Atlanta Journal Constitution that John Karr began substitute teaching in the school system in 1996.

"He wasn't here very long, for about 15 days in August and September of 1996, and I had to remove him from the sub list," Jackson said. "There were some complaints from parents. I can't say more than that."

Lara Karr wrote in her divorce petition that her husband had been removed from the list because "he had a tendency to be too affectionate with children."


One of those prestigious schools was Convent of the Sacred Heart Elementary School in San Francisco, one of four independent Catholic schools that operate under the umbrella of Schools of the Sacred Heart. John Karr worked as a teacher's aide for four weeks in September 2000, said Jo Ann Shain, director of communications for the four schools.

Shain said John Karr was only at the school for four weeks, voluntarily leaving because "he didn't like the job description."

He worked in two classrooms during the four weeks he was there. "He was never, ever alone with the children," Shain said, adding that teachers' aides are always supervised.

John Karr went through the school's comprehensive background check, including fingerprinting and a criminal record review. He had no problems in his past, according to Shain. She said his references in Georgia "recommended him highly."

John Karr worked as a fourth-grade student teacher at Pueblo Vista Elementary in Napa from January through early April of 2001 while trying to earn his teaching credential from Sonoma State University, said Sharyn Lindsey, assistant superintendent for human resources for Napa Valley Unified School District.

He also held an emergency substitute permit, which allowed him to take over the class in which he was student teaching when the teacher was away, which he did eight times.

Background fingerprint checks were conducted on John Karr by both the university, through the California Commission on Teacher Credentialing, and the Napa County Office of Education, Lindsey said. Both checks would have included national criminal databases and revealed arrests for less serious crimes such as drunk driving, she said.

"We had two tracks of fingerprinting on Mr. Karr, and to our knowledge, he was clear," she said.


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/17/MNGAOKKD7S59.DTL
 
Remind me Buzz, was he convicted of the other crimes or just to stand trial for the charges? That would perhaps explain why he is "clean"?
 
How is this in any way "passing the buck"? And what would you propose "needs to be done", given the information available at the time?
 
Hi Buzz, Today I heard the Superintendant in Petaluma on a call on FOX who said he worked as a sub for two days. He didn't like John's style basicly so never called him back. He worked 11 days in that district in total, and then they discovered something about his credentials not being up to snuff.

But nevertheless, you are saying he had no felonies up to 2001. I just can't help thinking this was a pretty complicated crime for a first one.

Scandi

ETA: One thing I've been thinking Buzz is that only recently have they perfected the art of the side hand print. I saw it on a forensics show. They tailed him for 21 days and could have retreived a print like that to study, of course not to use in court. But if they found a side hand or palm print at the Ramsey house and it matched, that alone would be reason enough to bring him back to ink him up and slap it on a piece of paper.
 
JBean said:
Remind me Buzz, was he convicted of the other crimes or just to stand trial for the charges? That would perhaps explain why he is "clean"?
He was dismissed from the Alabama schools, for reasons that they can't talk about, and then he was given glowing references by them.

In another post on another thread, someone mentioned he had charges against him in GA and Alabama, but if so, those should have shown up.

It just reminds me that problem people are often passed along in the system, with high recommendations, when they shouldn't have them at all.
 
...JBR's school - I believe her kindergarten teacher raised concerns that JBR often came to school hungry, sometimes disheveled and wearing too much makeup. In addition her school was concerned about the number of hours that PR had her in pageants, including forcing her to perform for apparently up to 8 hours on end...Nothing was done about the suspected abuse/neglect because of the Ramsey's "social standing" in the sommunity....No different than ignoring the sick and twisted Mr. Karr, IMO...
 
Bravell Jackson, superintendent of Marion County Schools in Alabama, told the Atlanta Journal Constitution that John Karr began substitute teaching in the school system in 1996.

Thanks Buzz :)

I beleive his wife mentioned to the media (according to CC), in an interview yesterday, he was still going to school for his teaching degree at a community college, in 1996.

Not that he also couldn't have been a substitute teacher. Some school districts are hard up for Subs!
 
Do you think the case is solved?
I'm not sure 35%
Yes 34%
No 31%
Total Votes: 358,762

BOULDER, Colo. (Aug. 17) - For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr are his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

"We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy, quoting the little girl's father. "Do not jump to conclusions, do not rush to judgment, do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course."

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_...d/20060816163809990004?ncid=NWS00010000000001
 
Buzzm1 said:
He was dismissed from the Georgia schools, for reasons that they can't talk about, and then he was given glowing references by them.
He was not dismissed from the Georgia schools. He was only a substitute teacher and that was from the Alabama schools not Georgia. His name was removed from the list of substitutes, he was not fired.
His work in GA may have been good, but not in AL.

In another post on another thread, someone mentioned he had charges against him in GA and Alabama, but if so, those should have shown up.
I don't know of any charges in Georgia or AL, but I know of the ones in Calif. Maybe someone got their info mixed up.
I believe that the charges of child *advertiser censored* in Sonoma county happened long after he quit trying to be a substitute or teacher's aid.

It just reminds me that problem people are passed along in the system, with high recommendations, when they shouldn't have them at all.
I think you have GA & AL mixed up Buzz. Reread the article you posted again.
 
Seeker said:
He was not dismissed from the Georgia schools. He was only a substitute teacher and that was from the Alabama schools not Georgia. His name was removed from the list of substitutes, he was not fired.
His work in GA may have been good, but not in AL.

SNIP
removed/dismissed, not a great deal of difference. There was a reason he was removed from the substitute list.
 
Lindsey said John Karr's employment ended on April 3, 2001, when Napa County Sheriff's deputies came to the school to interview him on behalf of Sonoma County investigators.

"That's the last we saw of him," she said.

He was arrested that month and charged with five counts of possession of child *advertiser censored* after a confidential informant tipped off police to his activities. Police searched two of John Karr's residencies in Petaluma -- he was in the process of moving -- and found child *advertiser censored* on his computer. John Karr challenged the legality of one of the searches.
 
Buzzm1 said:
removed/dismissed, not a great deal of difference. There was a reason he was removed from the substitute list.
Actually IMO there is quite a bit of difference. If you are removed from a position you are fired. If your name is simply removed from a list of substitute teachers it could be for many reasons. Laci's name was probably removed (crossed out) from the list as well due to her complicated pregnancy. Having your name simply removed is not anything like being removed from a position.
 
Yeah, something should be done. A teacher who suspects a parent is a pedophile should of course report it, but even more, a teacher being suspected of being a pedophile, with any complaints, should be reported and investigated - not allowed to continue school shopping to find where he can get sufficiently quiet victims. If there were complaints, they should be looked at, and placed in his record for future schools to see before hiring him.
 
cappuccina said:
...JBR's school - I believe her kindergarten teacher raised concerns that JBR often came to school hungry, sometimes disheveled and wearing too much makeup. In addition her school was concerned about the number of hours that PR had her in pageants, including forcing her to perform for apparently up to 8 hours on end...Nothing was done about the suspected abuse/neglect because of the Ramsey's "social standing" in the sommunity....No different than ignoring the sick and twisted Mr. Karr, IMO...

Where did you hear all this? That's the first new info I've heard concerning Jonbenet in years.
 
...many years ago...

Compare PR's Chrismas letter on this site: (scroll down)

http://www.angelfire.com/amiga2/crimesolver/


...to what was more likely the truth...

...JBR was pretty old to be in kindergarten; my son was half way through first grade at her age....She had difficulty reading, and was not yet fully toilet trained; doubtful that she was advanced to first grade math. Now her performance ability was very good for her age, but it was accomplished AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYTHING ELSE...
 
Seeker said:
Actually IMO there is quite a bit of difference. If you are removed from a position you are fired. If your name is simply removed from a list of substitute teachers it could be for many reasons. Laci's name was probably removed (crossed out) from the list as well due to her complicated pregnancy. Having your name simply removed is not anything like being removed from a position.
Only because the Alabama school didn't list the reason for his removal as "he was too affectionate to the children" and that information wasn't passed on through his references.

I just wonder how many times this guy avoided prosecution, or trouble, through the years by someone not wanting to create trouble, or just passing him along to the next situation. It most likely happened that way.
 
Details said:
Yeah, something should be done. A teacher who suspects a parent is a pedophile should of course report it, but even more, a teacher being suspected of being a pedophile, with any complaints, should be reported and investigated - not allowed to continue school shopping to find where he can get sufficiently quiet victims. If there were complaints, they should be looked at, and placed in his record for future schools to see before hiring him.
It seems that it is all too common to give problem employees glowing references just to get rid of them, and make them someone else's problem, plus I understand that there are legal issues in giving someone a bad recommendation, but in issues where they are dealing with children, this becomes a critical problem.
 
Raised in Hamilton County, Ga., Karr married Lara Marie Karr on May 19, 1989. On their wedding day, John Karr was 24 and Lara Karr was 16.

Sonoma County Sheriff's Department investigators went to Karr's home at 2004 Chetwood Ave. in Petaluma on April 3, 2001 to seize his computer. Karr, 41, was charged with five misdemeanor counts of possession of child *advertiser censored*. He disappeared before his trial was scheduled to begin in January 2002.

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_229180456.html



According to court records, John Karr was released from jail on his own recognizance on Oct. 5, 2001. He was ordered to remain in close contact with a probation officer and stay away from "parks, schools, day care centers, swimming pools, beaches, theaters, arcades or other places where children congregate."

He failed to appear at a scheduled court date, and a warrant was issued for his arrest on Dec. 13.


In a divorce petition filed with Sonoma County Superior Court on Oct. 21, 2001, Lara Karr wrote that that her husband "specifically set out to get me pregnant so we could marry without parental consent, as is the Georgia law."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/17/MNGAOKKD7S59.DTL
 
Timeline of John Mark Karr

BANGKOK, Thailand — John Mark Karr, a former American school teacher who is a suspect in the 1996 death of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey, is believed to have traveled extensively in the United States, Europe, Latin America and Asia in recent years:

2006

_ May: University of Colorado Professor Michael Tracey, who had been corresponding with Karr about the case for four years, contacted the Boulder district attorney about their e-mail exchanges.

_ June 6: Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police, said Karr arrived in Bangkok from Penang, Malaysia, to look for a teaching job. Karr had been in Thailand five times over the past two years.

_ Aug. 11: Suwat said U.S. authorities informed Thai police that an arrest warrant had been issued for Karr on charges of premeditated murder.

_ Aug. 15: Karr began teaching second grade in the international school system in Bangkok, according to the district attorney in Boulder, Colo.

_ Aug. 16: Arrest warrant sent to Thai police and Karr taken into custody.

_ Aug. 17: Karr told reporters in Bangkok, Thailand, that he was "with JonBenet when she died" and that "her death was an accident."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4124816.html[/I]
 
2001

_ January - March: Karr worked in four different school districts throughout Sonoma County, Calif., between January and March 2001.

_ April 13: Karr was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child *advertiser censored*, the Sonoma County sheriff's office said.

_ April 17: Karr pleaded not guilty to the charges, according to court documents.

_ April: The Sonoma County School District where Karr sometimes substitute-taught received a letter from the county superintendent of education to say Karr had been taken off the list of acceptable substitutes, after the Sonoma sheriff's office notified school officials he had been arrested.

_ April 19: Karr's wife filed for divorce.

_ Oct. 5: After a series of court hearings, Karr was released from jail, but was ordered to report to a probation officer and avoid child *advertiser censored*, children and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks. The court records in the case were sealed.

_ November: A judge issues a restraining order, compelling Karr to stay 100 yards away from his wife and three children for three years.

_ December: A warrant was issued for Karr's arrest after authorities said he violated the terms of his supervised release.

2000

_ Summer 2000: Karr moved his family to Petaluma, Calif.

_ John Karr received a bachelor of science degree in liberal arts from Regents College, now Excelsior College, in 2000, spokesman Bill Stewart said Thursday.

1996-2001

_ A resume in Karr's name at Job4Teacher.com says he taught a variety of subjects at "some of the most prestigious schools in the United States" in addition to doing private tutoring. The resume says he has been to Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities, though no dates or schools are listed. The authenticity of the resume could not be confirmed.

1996-1999

_ Karr said he served as a substitute teacher at Winfield Elementary in Winfield, Ala.

1998

_ Karr said he was a computer instructor at Bevill College in Hamilton, Ala.

1996-1998

_ At Bevill State Community College in Hamilton, records show Karr was a student from the fall of 1996 to the winter of 1998. During that time he also ran a used car business, according to Marion County Probate Judge Annette Bozeman, who often saw Karr in her office working on car titles.

_ Fall 1996: Karr is hired as a substitute teacher at the high school he attended, Hamilton High School in Hamilton, Ala. He worked there until school officials received complaints that he was saying things "that didn't need to be said in an elementary class," according to the district's superintendent, Bravell Jackson.[/i]
 

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