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  1. #1
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    WHAT Is The Ramsey/Karr Connection?

    This is something that has been baffling me. Ramsey attorneys have said several times that info about Karr was given to LE before he was ever identified as a suspect, yet JR has continually stated that he has no idea who Karr is. Both Karr and the Ramsey attorneys have repeatedly refused to say how the Ramsey's and Karr were connected/how they knew each other or knew of each other.

    This blatent inconsistancy has been going unnoticed by everyone in the media. WHY is the media ignoring this issue? I even read in one article where in one paragraph JR says he doesn't know Karr, and in the next paragraph the attorneys say it was the Ramsey's themselves who gave Karr's identity to LE as a possible suspect. HUH???

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4190797
    Asked whether he knew the suspect, he told 9News that "to my knowledge, no, I didn't," but stressed that he didn't yet know enough and that the justice system should be allowed to run its course.

    Family attorney L. Lin Wood said the Ramseys had previously passed authorities information about Karr, but declined to elaborate.


    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...GT1KJSBQ19.DTL
    JonBenet's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, gave police information about Karr before he was identified as a suspect, their attorney said Wednesday. She would not say how the couple knew Karr.

    I've also noticed that since JR has been running off at the mouth to anyone who will listen that he has no idea who this guy Karr is, the attorneys have suddenly gone silent in saying that it was the Ramsey's who had originally given his identity to LE. What gives?

    Is is possible that Karr did kill JBR, that one or the other or both of the Ramsey's let him into the house that night and be alone with JBR for some reason, and Karr killed her in the course of what ever it was he was there to do (which turned out to be something the Ramsey's had no intention of him doing), and they covered up as best they could to conseal whatever mischief Karr's connection with JBR was?

    I'm thinking that perhaps they allowed this guy on many occasions to take nudie photos of JBR or even soft porn, and on this particular night Karr killed her. I'm wondering if there was the possibility that the Ramsey's and Karr were connected for some time to make a bundle by secretly using JBR as the "star" of kiddie soft porn (and maybe worse than that), and that the Ramsey's had no idea that he was capable of torturing and killing their daughter until it was too late. But given the fact of what they were involved in with the kiddie porn, tried to cover-up her death as best they could so they wouldn't be found out that they put their own daughter into the situation that killed her themselves.

    Patsy was obsessed about farming JBR out like a commodity with a camera almost constantly on her.

    The Ramsey's had no problem tarting her up like a mini Vegas showgirl publically and were even proud of it... how far of a stretch to farm her out for nudie photos or soft porn?

    They probably knew that she was being molested as so many experts have agreed, and were doing their damndest to cover that up. Potty problems in a child that age is a very frequent sign that they are being molested, and it could be that the Ramsey's suspected that's why she was having that problem, why they were sensative about it, and why they went overboard in trying to cover it up even going to a pediatrician that didn't imagine that molestation could be the cause of JBR's potty problems.

    This could also explain JR's inexplicable statement when the body was found ("I'm sorry, I'm so sorry"), Patsy's saying that she felt guilty and why they were both so nervous about taking polygraphs.

    JR knew to go directly to the basement room where the body of JBR lay as soon as LE told him to search the house because he knew where the body was. PR didn't budge off the sofa when FW raced up the stairs screaming for someone to call an ambulance which brought both Mrs. White and Mrs. "wife of other neighbor" (the name escapes me at the moment) and the detective racing toward the stairs... PR knew JBR was in the basement and was not at all shocked or surprised as she knew when JR went down to the basement what would be found.

    JR could have purposely carried the body upstairs when he found it to make sure that any of his DNA or hair or fibers that may be found on the body could be explained away.

    In an interview with Barbara Walters, PR said that when JBR was laid on the floor under the Christmas tree she lay down beside her and pressed her own face the JRB's... thereby explaining away any of her DNA or hair or fibers found on the body. PR also says in the interview that JR carried the body upstairs and placed it under the tree, but everyone else says that he placed the body in the foyer, and the detective picked it up and placed it near the tree.

    It seems evident that a cover up involving JBR's body only attempted to cover up any evidence of molestation. Apparently, there is evidence that shows JBR's "southern region" was cleaned up, and what about those giant panties? There seemed to be a lot of dressing and undressing going on involving JBR's body, but no attempt to cover up how she was killed.

    I've been hearing for years that there are kiddie porn photos of JBR on the internet, but no possible way am I going to test that theory out by looking for any. Some of the sources I've heard this from are from people who I'm convinced have actually seen some.

    Clearly, the DA did not want the Ramsey's implicated in this case, but I don't think he would have been willing to do that if one or both of them murdered JBR... I think he was trying to cover up it getting out publically that the Ramsey's were pimping out their daughter for kiddie porn, and was therefore willing to thwart the investigation and botch the grand jury proceedings. He was willing to let the killer off in order to help the Ramsey's cover up the kiddie porn connection. He knew that letting Karr off wouldn't let a killer loose in his jurisdiction because Karr lived in Alabama... let Alabama have him.

    A kiddie porn connection could be that "secret" info that "only the killer would know"... except JR would also know. I think that's why he is blabbing to all and sundry that he has no idea who Karr is. This way, if Karr implicates him about the kiddie porn, he can claim he knew nothing and lay all the blame on his conveniently dead wife. I find it significant that the investigation for Karr came only at the time of Patsy's death... now JR can lay the blame on someone who lived in the house was related to JBR and was there at the time of the murder who is no longer able to defend herself. Tracey, who is clearly a Ramsey fan, was corresponding with Karr for 4 years but only alerts police around the time of PR's death. Could JR been convincing him to wait before alerting the police until he knew that Patsy was about to die so he could have a scapegoat that couldn't defend herself?

    Or am I just barking up a whole forest full of trees with this and have no idea what I'm talking about?

  2. #2
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    I have wondered the same thing but I came to my own conclusions that it could have been because Karr had emailed people who knew the Ramsey family. And remember Patsy was going to meet with him before she died and probably let the LE know about this situation. So that would still qualify BEFORE the arrest. That doesn't mean they personally knew him or there was a connection.

    As far as whether she was sexually abused BEFORE... potty accidents are a frequent sign but you also have to remember TONS of kids have potty accidents who are NOT abused. In fact we have a thread about it in the Jury Room about children that wet the bed at older ages. Heck my first son wet until he was 8. He was a very, very, very sound sleeper and also didn't produce enough of the hormone that suppresses urine while you sleep. But he was NEVER sexually abused.

    So the potty accidents in themselves is not something to convict on.

  3. #3
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    Sorry, I think your idea is poposturous!! Its revolting and horrific. I can not believe the Ramseys could have been abusing/exploting and brutalizing there child that way. I am completly on the fence about who killed Jonbenet. I am not a Ramsey supporter but I can not swollow this scenerio. That said just because it is totally vomitatious to me dosen't mean it could not have some validity to it.

    mjak

  4. #4
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    or perhaps there is some truth that Karrs brother worked for John. I noticed when the brother was interviewed and asked he responded "no comment"

  5. #5
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    well i dont know if the ramseys did it or not, but i dont believe Karr did it (or atleast not alone) i dont want to believe your theory could happen, i dontw ant to believe any parent would do their child that way....but we do live in a sick and twisted world and i think it is possible what you have theorized

  6. #6
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    It could be true that the Ramsey's don't know of Karr ... but remember there is that address in Georgia where Karr lived on the same street as the Ramseys. Karr at 4000,the Ramsey's at 4070 I believe.So maybe the Ramsey's weren't aware of Karr ... but Karr was aware of the Ramsey's,and sort of stalking them.

  7. #7
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    Hi Capps,

    Where did you get the address info on Ramsey's and Karr on the same street? Was it "these" Ramseys and this "John Mark Karr."

    This is curious... Were the Ramseys "in the money" when they lived there? If so...was the address where JMK a high rent place?

    Which makes me wonder about the Red Delorean - where did the money come from to buy that?

    Wrinkles

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by capps
    It could be true that the Ramsey's don't know of Karr ... but remember there is that address in Georgia where Karr lived on the same street as the Ramseys. Karr at 4000,the Ramsey's at 4070 I believe.So maybe the Ramsey's weren't aware of Karr ... but Karr was aware of the Ramsey's,and sort of stalking them.
    Is that address even for real? I can't find a 4000 Paces Ferry Rd in Vinings or Atl.

  9. #9
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    The only connection that I see so far is that Karr spent holidays in Atlanta and the Ramseys had a home in Atlanta. Maybe Karr met JBR in Atlanta? or maybe one of the other children Karr cared for at some time was in pageants or ballet or something like that with JBR?


    Also suddenly wondering if Nate Karr the brother who was rumored to have been a handyman for the Ramseys and who lived in Atlanta was a handyman for the Ramsey at their Atlanta place and not the Boulder house?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc9876
    Is that address even for real? I can't find a 4000 Paces Ferry Rd in Vinings or Atl.
    Sorry for taking so long to reply,it looks like I've been on this forum for two days straight,but I haven't,for some reason even when I log off,it doesn't log me out!! I don't get it.

    The link below was found by another poster in another forum. It shows one of the applications JMK filled out when he was in Thailand. Now if he really lived there or not,I don't know. Interesting,just the same. (Good sleuthing Tipper!!)

    Edit: Crap! Just lost the link,I'll be back!

    Here it is:
    http://myhandwriting.com/celebs/johnmarkkarr.html


  11. #11
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    curiositycat is offline The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience
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    I have tried and tried to come up with a "connection" theory. The only thing that might be a REMOTE possibility...I read somewhere from a link on WS that he restored old victorian homes at one time. They had a Victorain home in Boulder...perhaps they found him online and he bid on their home?????
    "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect" Steven Wright

  12. #12
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    Originally Posted byAnngelique
    And remember Patsy was going to meet with him before she died and probably let the LE know about this situation. So that would still qualify BEFORE the arrest.
    Patsy supposedly agreed to meet with "the alleged killer" before she died. However, at that time his name was not known. Also, Patsy never got any correspondence about the alleged killer wanting to meet with her because that correspondence was being intercepted by LE. LE may have told the Ramsey's about the alleged killer wanting to meet her, but she never corresponded with him, and she never agreed to meet with him. Besides, at that time the identity of this "alleged killer" was unknown (it was not know that this corresponding alleged killer was Karr).

    Also, the Ramsey attorneys have said that the Ramsey's themselves gave the NAME of JMK to LE as a possible suspect before LE determined he was a suspect, not before he was arrested. Therefore, the Ramsey's HAD to know who JMK was, had reason to believe LE should check him out as a suspect, and all before LE knew anything about him.

    As I understand it, JBR had more than a bed wetting problem. At her age, bed wetting is unremarkable and quite common. However, as I understand it, JBR was not just urinating in her sleep but urinating and deficating at times when she was awake... it is this that is a noted symptom of molestation, not just wetting the bed when asleep.

    I don't bring up the potty accidents as anything regarding a conviction, but merely a reason why the Ramsey's may have either known or suspected that she was being molested.

    Originally Posted bymjak
    Sorry, I think your idea is poposturous!! Its revolting and horrific. I can not believe the Ramseys could have been abusing/exploting and brutalizing there child that way. I am completly on the fence about who killed Jonbenet. I am not a Ramsey supporter but I can not swollow this scenerio. That said just because it is totally vomitatious to me dosen't mean it could not have some validity to it.
    Yep, it sure is revolting and horrific to imagine that the Ramsey's may have been allowing someone to take nudie photos or "soft" porn (suggestively posed nudie photos) of their daughter for black market sale. However, I find it FAR less revolting and horrific than to imagine that either one of them molested her or killed her or tried to cover up an accidental murder by savagely strangling her with a garrot and violently bashing her head.

    When Brooke Shields was about 10 years old, her mother had a photographer take nude rather suggesive photos of her in a bathtub/shower stall. Today, that would be blatant child pornography, but at the time it was discovered (when Brooke was in her late teens/early twenties) there was only a very minor uproar in the press, and most people didn't find anything wrong with it other than it being somewhat weird. Both Brooke and her mother saw nothing wrong with it whatsoever, and could not understand why it was even newsworthy. If these were the types of photos that the Ramsey's may have been having JBR do, I would FAR rather that this was all either one of them was guilty of (and I'd find the selling of them for black market pedophile consumption equally if not more wretched them having her pose for them).

    Since the Ramsey's were already tarting her up in heels, full make-up, dressed suggestively and ADULTLY like a Vegas showgirl, paraded her out in public like that and were PROUD of it, is it really so farfetched that they would allow nudie suggestively posed photos be taken of her as well?

    ...
    I'm puzzled as to the connection of Karr with the Ramsey's as the Ramsey's own attorneys have several times publically stated that Karr's IDENTITY - his NAME - was given to LE by the Ramsey's THEMSELVES as a possible suspect BEFORE LE knew of him. It was the RAMSEY'S that fingered Karr FIRST according to their OWN attorneys. This is why I can't understand why JR continually says he doesn't know Karr, and the media has not said one word about the descrepency of what JR says about a connection to him and PR and what JR's attorneys say about a connection to him PR. It is also mysterious that these attorneys refuse to say WHAT that connection IS.

  13. #13
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    I honestly cant see the Ramseys shopping Contractors online. Expecially a "dirt poor" one living in Alabama.
    Welcome to the World Baby Caleb!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiositycat
    I have tried and tried to come up with a "connection" theory. The only thing that might be a REMOTE possibility...I read somewhere from a link on WS that he restored old victorian homes at one time. They had a Victorain home in Boulder...perhaps they found him online and he bid on their home?????
    Karr's resume gives the reference to the restoration of Victorian homes. From the resume, he would have been doing this from age 16-31. There could have been possible contact with the Ramsey's concerning that business.
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...61resume1.html


    Real estate (1981-1996)Privately owned rental business. Restoration of mansions from the Queen Victoria Era.

  15. #15
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    Wendy Murphy thinks there might be a connection, doc.

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