Just watched Ramsey special on E....

sntemp

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And I have some questions that some here can answer for me.

1) They said an unknown pubic hair was found. Have they ever determined who's hair that was?

2) In describing how John found JBR, they reported that John and someone else were walking through the basement searching and that John had "unlatched" the room they called the wine cellar and opened the door and saw JBR on the floor. If he unlatched the door, was it a latch that could be latched and unlatched from both sides? If not then do the intruder theorist think the killer exited the house from a fron or back door and not the window? How could he have locked the latch if he left from the window?

3) Did ANY handwriting analyst rule out Patsy? I have heard that a few couldn't rule her out.
 
sntemp said:
And I have some questions that some here can answer for me.

1) They said an unknown pubic hair was found. Have they ever determined who's hair that was?

2) In describing how John found JBR, they reported that John and someone else were walking through the basement searching and that John had "unlatched" the room they called the wine cellar and opened the door and saw JBR on the floor. If he unlatched the door, was it a latch that could be latched and unlatched from both sides? If not then do the intruder theorist think the killer exited the house from a fron or back door and not the window? How could he have locked the latch if he left from the window?

3) Did ANY handwriting analyst rule out Patsy? I have heard that a few couldn't rule her out.
1: No it was not a pubic hair it was a hair from Patsys arm.

2: John states that he found the basement window unlatched.

3: I don't think any could rule her out.
 
"2; John states that he found the basement window unlatched."


No, I swear on the E special they said John unlatched the door to the wine cellar and opened it and that was when he found her.
 
sntemp said:
And I have some questions that some here can answer for me.

1) They said an unknown pubic hair was found. Have they ever determined who's hair that was? .
It was determined to be Patsy's. However, this was only reported on Fox by Carol McKinley. I asked her if she was sure about this and she said yes. Her source was 100 pecent reliable.

In describing how John found JBR, they reported that John and someone else were walking through the basement searching and that John had "unlatched" the room they called the wine cellar and opened the door and saw JBR on the floor. If he unlatched the door, was it a latch that could be latched and unlatched from both sides? If not then do the intruder theorist think the killer exited the house from a fron or back door and not the window? How could he have locked the latch if he left from the window?.
I am not quite sure I understand your question but it's not your fault. It's late and it's waaay past my bedtime.

Did ANY handwriting analyst rule out Patsy? I have heard that a few couldn't rule her out.
As far as I know no one has ever said they are 100 pecent sure Patsy did not write the note. Even her own handwriting experts couldn't rule her out.
 
Sorry I thought you meant the latch on the basement window.

Yes, you are right the winecellar door was latched when JR and Fleet White found JBR.

The latch was on the outside of the door.
This latch had no real use other than keeping the children out of the winecellar.
JR states that the door was never latched but PR states that she latched it during christmas to hide presents in the winecellar.

The person that put JB body in the winecellar must have latched the door after closing it.
IMO, this points away from an intruder and actually points to PR as the one who latched the door.
 
Thanks tricia.


The second question may be more of a misunderstanding on my part. I have always thought that the intruder side felt the killer fled the house through the window. If this were true how did the door to the cellar get latched from the outside.
 
Tumble, thanks.

For some reason that part just stcuk out to me.
 
It was determined to be Patsy's. However, this was only reported on Fox by Carol McKinley. I asked her if she was sure about this and she said yes. Her source was 100 pecent reliable.

Was this just recently Tricia?
 
sntemp said:
Thanks tricia.


The second question may be more of a misunderstanding on my part. I have always thought that the intruder side felt the killer fled the house through the window. If this were true how did the door to the cellar get latched from the outside.
The basement window supposed to be the escape window was not located in the winecellar but in another room in the basement.

And you are right about thinking the latched door is strange, this has bugged me from day one. Why latch this door?

Another thing about the basement window room(the train room) is that a chair was placed in front of a door leading into the train room. This implies that this escape route is not very plausible.
 
Tumble, It's a big enough stretch that someone who would commit such a horrible crime would take so much time to write a lengthy note (even if at the time the crime was only going to be kidnapping). But to believe that intruder killed her and then took the time to worry about latching the door.

:snooty:
 
If Karr murdered JB, why write a kidnapping note, complete with practice sheets? It would seem he would be so horrified about JB's "accidental" death, that he would exit the house ASAP. It's doubtful Karr would have written the note before his encounter with JB, since if his motive was kidnapping, why didn't he kidnap her? I agree that someone who breaks and enters wants to get away ASAP.
 
Trino said:
If Karr murdered JB, why write a kidnapping note, complete with practice sheets? It would seem he would be so horrified about JB's "accidental" death, that he would exit the house ASAP. It's doubtful Karr would have written the note before his encounter with JB, since if his motive was kidnapping, why didn't he kidnap her? I agree that someone who breaks and enters wants to get away ASAP.
Yepp, it's like a shoplifter leaving a note of the stuff he took and then leave the groceries by the door.
Writing the note in the store on a pad and with a pen from the shelves.
 
Trino said:
If Karr murdered JB, why write a kidnapping note, complete with practice sheets? It would seem he would be so horrified about JB's "accidental" death, that he would exit the house ASAP. It's doubtful Karr would have written the note before his encounter with JB, since if his motive was kidnapping, why didn't he kidnap her? I agree that someone who breaks and enters wants to get away ASAP.


It would seem fair to think that if the ransom note was written after JonBenet's death, then that would suggest a profile of the person might say that they would remain calm and cool while under immense pressure.
 
Wudge said:
It would seem fair to think that if the ransom note was written after JonBenet's death, it would suggest that a profile of the person might say that they would remain calm and cool while under immense pressure.
Agree. And think of the extra pressure on an intruder, constant danger of being caught for every unnecessary second spent on the scene. Cool to say the least.
 
But, why write a note after the fact? If leaving a note on the stairs was to throw off the trail, it's fairly obvious that when the Ramseys found it, they would immediately call police. And $118,000 certainly is a strange figure.
 
But, why write a note after the fact?

An intruder could have bought himself some time making police bark up the wrong tree for a while. But it sure took some precious time to write the thing...

Regarding the R's, what would the scene look like without the RN?
 
If you want the facts of the case, you might consider reading Justice Julie Carnes' court opinion in the Wolf v Ramsey civil suit rather than relying upon the talking heads' so-called reliable sources.

Otherwise put, no, the hair was not a hair from Patsy Ramsey's arm. Nor was the animal hair that was found from the Ramsey home. And four out of five of the accepted expert document analysis witnesses ruled Patsy out wrt writing the ransom note.

But please. Don't take my word for it. Feel free to read the court opinion for yourself. I have uploaded the full thing to my server, here. Click on the Wolf v Ramsey folder icon, and then select "Opinion."

NB: the Wolf v Ramsey pdfs are extremely large files. Especially the two handwriting analysis court documents. The latter being multi-megabytes. So high bandwidth and beaceau patience is required.
 
And four out of five of the accepted expert document analysis witnesses ruled Patsy out wrt writing the ransom note.

Are you suggesting ony five experts have analysed the note?
Which experts are you referring to?
I belive noone have ruled her out but some have almost ruled her out with 4 on a 5 scale with 5 being ruled out.
JR was ruled out with a 5 BTW.

But, analysing handwriting is not an exact science. Much more than the actual characters must be taken into account. And the whole RN must be placed in context in the whole crime.
Even notes written on a typewriter can sometimes be linked to a certain composer just by looking at the language and placing the note in a context.
 
tumble said:
And four out of five of the accepted expert document analysis witnesses ruled Patsy out wrt writing the ransom note.

Are you suggesting ony five experts have analysed the note?
Which experts are you referring to?
I belive noone have ruled her out but some have almost ruled her out with 4 on a 5 scale with 5 being ruled out.
JR was ruled out with a 5 BTW.
No. I am suggesting only five individuals provided expert witness testimony of which only four were allowed to proffer an expert opinion under the Daubert FRE 702 (though Justice Carnes did cite the recent Khumo ruling as well). And yes, you are quite correct, the experts scored her as a 4 on a scale of 5, or otherwise put, a "probably not."

Since I am assuming you've read the court opinion, you'll also note the issues raised with regard to the type of pen used as well as the fact that handwriting analysis in and of itself is subjective. The latter raising the primary issue with regard to their approach. Otherwise put, rather than the analysis being based upon blind samples, they knew they were comparing Patsy's handwriting samples with the ransom note. Thus there was no means to control for confirmatory bias.
 
shadowraiths said:
If you want the facts of the case, you might consider reading Justice Julie Carnes' court opinion in the Wolf v Ramsey civil suit rather than relying upon the talking heads' so-called reliable sources.

Otherwise put, no, the hair was not a hair from Patsy Ramsey's arm. Nor was the animal hair that was found from the Ramsey home. And four out of five of the accepted expert document analysis witnesses ruled Patsy out wrt writing the ransom note.

But please. Don't take my word for it. Feel free to read the court opinion for yourself. I have uploaded the full thing to my server, here. Click on the Wolf v Ramsey folder icon, and then select "Opinion."

NB: the Wolf v Ramsey pdfs are extremely large files. Especially the two handwriting analysis court documents. The latter being multi-megabytes. So high bandwidth and beaceau patience is required.
Are you aware that Jugde Carnes made her ruling without seeing some 40,000 pages of police documentation?


The Ramseys’ civil attorney Lin Wood presented a one-sided view of the evidence to Judge Carnes. Her decision was based on that one-sided view. However, there were over 40,000 pages of police documents and evidence collected in the criminal investigation by the BPD that Judge Carnes never saw.

http://www.supportramseytruth.com/index2.htm



 

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