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Thread: GA - Gloria Jean Baird, 23, 1969

  1. #1
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    GA - Gloria Jean Baird, 23, 1969


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    http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read...-02/0886482836

    I found this while googling the name.

    The post is stating she is her daughter. In it she says 1970 as the year missing.
    I'll look around some more.
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Thanks GoldHeartNumb. I hadn't seen those.

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    A little Information...

    After doing some research and talking with Gloria's daughter, there are a few more facts about this woman that may help with not only the ultimate goal of finding out what happen and where is Gloria, but also for her daughter to find out something about her mother. Here are a few more items that give a bit more information.

    The VW Beetle car was believed to be light blue and it is not sure where the car was found. I'm sure this information is out there somewhere, maybe in the police report. Apparently, once the car was recovered it was given to Gloria's father. The car was listed as being in his name. He in turn allegeded gave it or sold it to his brother who in turn gave it to his daughter.

    The known bases that Gloria was stationed were:

    Ft. Benjamin Harrison - Indiana (I believe that base is now closed.)

    Ft. McClellan - Alabama

    She may have had some type of clerical training for the army.

    The dates she was in the army before being listed as AWOL once she did not return from an approved leave in December of 1969 was 8/69 thru 12/69. 4-5 months

    Gloria attended Glynn Academy in Brunswick, GA but most likely may have dropped out in the 12th grade. Official transcripts are not available because the school system will not release them to anyone but the person. (Which is the way it should be.)

    People Gloria was to have known contact with:

    Dr. George Smith - New Orleans, LA
    Lt. Hallan Bridges - New Orleans, LA

    Mrs. Ruth Adams - East Point, GA (Gloria lived with her and possibly worked with her at the Georgia Baptist Hospital)

    Iris Blitch - GA Congresswoman - I think she was simply a friend of the family

    Toney or Tony Adams - East Point, GA ( Gloria claimed to have "loved" him.)
    James Adams - East Point, GA
    Johnny Adams - East Point, GA
    Butch & Norma Adams - East Point, GA
    PeWee & Brenda Adams - East Point, GA
    Craig Anderson - Boston, MA
    Jimmy Weaver - Prichard, Alabama

    Jackie Goodman - East Point, GA (Johnny Clyde's sister)
    Johnny Clyde Goodman - East Point, GA (Married Gloria, marriage was apparently illegal as Johnny was married to someone else, but a divorce was was given through a "Divorce Decree" on Feb. 14, 1969, and were only married 10 days.)

    Buster - Norfolk, Virginia (Ihave no idea if it's the first or last name, I assume it was his first name because he wrote to Gloria using that name.)


    It was also known that Jackie Goodman was in attendance of the party that Gloria was last seen. It has also been stated that Gloria left that party with three men.

    It has been said by Gloria's daughter that Gloria's parents were known to have associated with influential people and allied with the Atlanta Mayor, members of Congress, and police officials.

    Any help trying to learn more about these people would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by GOLDHEARTNUMB; 09-03-2006 at 02:05 PM. Reason: ... forgot something...
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Military Records...

    Unfortunately, there was a big fire in St. Louis, MO in July 1973 which destroyed many Army and Air Force Personnel Records which were archived there in the National Military Personnel Records Center. There are, however, some redundant records available to search, such as unit rosters, etc.

    Since Gloria was in the Army and is listed as AWOL and as a Deserter, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) would still list her and might even have records of some sort on her. The practice in all branches of the armed forces is to declare a person AWOL when they are noticed to be missing, and 60 days later, declare them a Deserter.

    Even though there might be some evidence of foul play, certain regulations and procedures are followed. After so many days, notices are sent to family stating that the person is AWOL and that if he/she does not turn himself/herself in within 60 days, the servicemember will be declared a deserter. The family is not given any death benefits or insurance payments. They are not even given an American Flag or marker for a ceremony.

    There is usually not much of an effort expended by the military to try to find AWOL persons. I have never seen an AWOL case listed by any branch of the armed forces as a "missing person" case on any websites. In fact, they often do not pursue any leads about these missing persons beyond maintaining very accurate lists of all "deserters". These lists go back to the Korean War.

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    Thank you Richard.

    I do know that the FBI did some investigation into this situation but I was told that they weren't very helpful when GJB's daughter called to inquire about it. I do know she (Daughter) mentioned to me that Johnny Clyde's sister, Jackie was interviewed, his mother, and GJB's first husband. (I'll need to go back and review my notes, which are in my car right now.) Is that normal for the FBI to not discuss a case with even a family member?

    There was also mentioned that GJB's mother & father had a family friend that was "high up" on the police force ( I don't know which LE it was, Atlanta or else where.) that "looked into" GJB's case. (According to GJB's daughter, but she cannot recall his name or anything else.)

    I was wondering if the Atlanta or East Point LE might have a record of where the car was located. Any ideas on how to find that out? I suppose a phone call or email to ask if there is a record would be the start.

    There has to be a trail somewhere...
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Freedom of Information Act...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDHEARTNUMB
    ...I do know that the FBI did some investigation into this situation but I was told that they weren't very helpful when GJB's daughter called to inquire about it. I do know she (Daughter) mentioned to me that Johnny Clyde's sister, Jackie was interviewed, his mother, and GJB's first husband. (I'll need to go back and review my notes, which are in my car right now.) Is that normal for the FBI to not discuss a case with even a family member?... I was wondering if the Atlanta or East Point LE might have a record of where the car was located. Any ideas on how to find that out? I suppose a phone call or email to ask if there is a record would be the start.
    There has to be a trail somewhere...
    I do not know how far back the specific local police keep records, or what their procedures are for seeing them. The FBI, however, is a FEDERAL government organization. As such, they are bound by both the Privacy Act, and the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) of 1974. A family member should write a letter to the FBI's Freedom of Information Act contact requesting a complete copy of their files on this investigation, specifically stating in the letter that it is a FOIA request.

    The FBI has an official website which might provide some addresses and necessary procedures/forms.

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    My dad was stationed at Ft. McClellan, AL in the late 60's and he just told me a couple weeks ago that it closed sometime around 1995. He said they had an Army Chemical school and also a Military Police school there and they were both moved to different locations.


    Happiness...consists in giving, and in serving others.
    - Henry Drummond

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    I did finally find Gloria Jean's picture in the 1964 Glynn Academy Year book. (It took some digging to locate a yearbook finally... but I found it.) This would have been her Junior year. She appeared in only the 1964 book and not in any of the years previous or after. In this year book I also found she was a member of PAL (Pan American League) and took Spanish. I know these things don't help find her, but it does help her daughter know more about her mother. I got copies of the pages that she appeared on and will be forwarding those to her daughter.

    Additional Info about GJB's father... Dr. Joseph Baird was a dentist.

    I have also managed to locate a few people that may have known Gloria in school and have so far only spoken to one of them. She said she was going to do a little bit of asking around with other classmates to hopefully locate others that may have spent time with Gloria. (This lady was in the same year as Gloria and remembers both Gloria and her sister.)

    So far this is as much as I have been able to work on. Hopefully, I'll be able to contact a few other people listed in the yearbook soon.
    Last edited by GOLDHEARTNUMB; 09-12-2006 at 01:16 PM. Reason: I forgot to add sumtin...
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Gloria was known to have dated "Navy guys" from the Glynco Naval Airstation while in High Scool.



    (Just adding here and there when I find out things...)
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Any ideas on how to go about tracking down people at the party Gloria was last seen attending?
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    http://www.ganet.org/gbi/uiddetail.cgi?idnum=129

    http://www.ganet.org/gbi/uiddetail.cgi?idnum=122

    GBI Unidentified remains for white females that might fit...
    THESE ARE MY OPINIONS... KEEP HANDS AND FEET INSIDE AT ALL TIMES WHILE OPINIONS ARE IN MOTION... OPINIONS MAY COME TO A SUDDEN STOP OR CHANGE DIRECTIONS AT ANY GIVEN TIME... HAVE A SAFE JOURNEY

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    Gloria's Military History

    Hi! This is Gloria's daughter. This is very interesting. The FBI did in fact attempt to track Gloria down. They visited my dad in the Virgin Islands. Before they talked to him, they talked to my step-mother, who pointed me out as Gloria's daughter. They visited Gloria's sister in Southern California. I'm not sure who else they talked to. Seems odd that you claim that they never really search....when the FBI seemed to be all over it. I checked with the FBI office in Atlanta and they claim they never searched for Gloria; however, I tried to get the FBI out of the Southern California town where my aunt lived and they flat out refused to provide me with any information unless I could prove that she was dead. I was even told that they are keeping my papers that I have submitted to them. Uh, ok. I spoke to my congressman and was told that the FBI would never disclose information to me. The military is also requiring that I prove that she's passed away before they will change Gloria's dishonorable discharge status to something else. Oh, and here's another crazy thing, Gloria went missing in 1969, the military sent her parents a letter on 01/13/70 asking them to turn over Gloria. My grandfather wrote them back on 02/06/70 and said that he didn't know where she was and that she was suppose to come over for Christmas and never did. On 05/02/83, the army wrote Gloria a letter and sent it to her parent's home. In that letter, it states that on 09/30/82, the army had notified her (Gloria) that she was eligible for discharge from service with the US Army. She was given the option to state her case in order to avoid a dishonorable discharge. The Army never received a response. This letter reports that her discharge was to be effective on 05/02/83. I actually have the Dishonorable Discharge document! My grandmother gave it to me and I haven't been able to fathom the length of time it took to get this discharge and my mind spins at the thought of the FBI looking for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Unfortunately, there was a big fire in St. Louis, MO in July 1973 which destroyed many Army and Air Force Personnel Records which were archived there in the National Military Personnel Records Center. There are, however, some redundant records available to search, such as unit rosters, etc.

    Since Gloria was in the Army and is listed as AWOL and as a Deserter, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) would still list her and might even have records of some sort on her. The practice in all branches of the armed forces is to declare a person AWOL when they are noticed to be missing, and 60 days later, declare them a Deserter.

    Even though there might be some evidence of foul play, certain regulations and procedures are followed. After so many days, notices are sent to family stating that the person is AWOL and that if he/she does not turn himself/herself in within 60 days, the servicemember will be declared a deserter. The family is not given any death benefits or insurance payments. They are not even given an American Flag or marker for a ceremony.

    There is usually not much of an effort expended by the military to try to find AWOL persons. I have never seen an AWOL case listed by any branch of the armed forces as a "missing person" case on any websites. In fact, they often do not pursue any leads about these missing persons beyond maintaining very accurate lists of all "deserters". These lists go back to the Korean War.

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    FBI - Goodmans

    I'm not certain that the FBI talked to Johnny Goodman's family about Gloria. Johnny Clyde Goodman also (alleged by his brother) went AWOL around the same time that Gloria did. They were from different military installations. He was in East Point, GA and she was from Fort McClellan, AL. The FBI visited Johnny's family to ask about him and I'm not certain that they asked about Gloria.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDHEARTNUMB
    Thank you Richard.

    I do know that the FBI did some investigation into this situation but I was told that they weren't very helpful when GJB's daughter called to inquire about it. I do know she (Daughter) mentioned to me that Johnny Clyde's sister, Jackie was interviewed, his mother, and GJB's first husband. (I'll need to go back and review my notes, which are in my car right now.) Is that normal for the FBI to not discuss a case with even a family member?

    There was also mentioned that GJB's mother & father had a family friend that was "high up" on the police force ( I don't know which LE it was, Atlanta or else where.) that "looked into" GJB's case. (According to GJB's daughter, but she cannot recall his name or anything else.)

    I was wondering if the Atlanta or East Point LE might have a record of where the car was located. Any ideas on how to find that out? I suppose a phone call or email to ask if there is a record would be the start.

    There has to be a trail somewhere...

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    FBI - Freedom of Information Act

    Nope. Tried this. The Freedom of Information Act request didn't work. I have to prove that she's dead before they will disclose anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I do not know how far back the specific local police keep records, or what their procedures are for seeing them. The FBI, however, is a FEDERAL government organization. As such, they are bound by both the Privacy Act, and the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) of 1974. A family member should write a letter to the FBI's Freedom of Information Act contact requesting a complete copy of their files on this investigation, specifically stating in the letter that it is a FOIA request.

    The FBI has an official website which might provide some addresses and necessary procedures/forms.

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    Gloria - Fort McClellan

    Interesting. I just took a closer look at her military records. Her Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty, reports that she had 7 weeks of "Clerical Typing and Proc." - "7 weeks - 1969/NOTHING FOLLOWS". "Time lost before normal expiration of term of service: 956 days." "Time lost after normal expiration of term of service 19 August 1972: 3,903 days".

    I would like to know where she was prior to those 7 weeks of clerical typing, why did her time expire on 08/19/72 and why did her discharge occur on 05/02/83.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradise
    My dad was stationed at Ft. McClellan, AL in the late 60's and he just told me a couple weeks ago that it closed sometime around 1995. He said they had an Army Chemical school and also a Military Police school there and they were both moved to different locations.

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    Wink Gloria Jean - Glynn Academy

    Thank you so much! Interesting that her picture doesn't appear before or after 1964. I look forward to seeing these pages.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDHEARTNUMB
    I did finally find Gloria Jean's picture in the 1964 Glynn Academy Year book. (It took some digging to locate a yearbook finally... but I found it.) This would have been her Junior year. She appeared in only the 1964 book and not in any of the years previous or after. In this year book I also found she was a member of PAL (Pan American League) and took Spanish. I know these things don't help find her, but it does help her daughter know more about her mother. I got copies of the pages that she appeared on and will be forwarding those to her daughter.

    Additional Info about GJB's father... Dr. Joseph Baird was a dentist.

    I have also managed to locate a few people that may have known Gloria in school and have so far only spoken to one of them. She said she was going to do a little bit of asking around with other classmates to hopefully locate others that may have spent time with Gloria. (This lady was in the same year as Gloria and remembers both Gloria and her sister.)

    So far this is as much as I have been able to work on. Hopefully, I'll be able to contact a few other people listed in the yearbook soon.

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    Cool Gloria Jean - Atlanta party

    The only person I can think of to talk to is Johnny Clyde's sister, Jackie. I have asked his brother (Jimmy) twice to have Jackie contact me and have never heard a response. I spoke with Jimmy last year, who contacted Jackie. Jackie remembered Gloria having left with 3 men from a party (what??) 36 years later?? I heard that same story from Gloria's sister (my aunt) about 10 years ago. I'm not trying to question what people are telling me. I just find it interesting. I can barely remember a party that I went to last month.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDHEARTNUMB
    Any ideas on how to go about tracking down people at the party Gloria was last seen attending?

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    Remains found - possible link

    Received an e-mail regarding a Florida detective who believes that Gloria fits the profile of a certain Jane Doe who was found in Florida in 1971. I don't feel comfortable giving up too much information about that yet until I actually talk to the detective and supply a DNA sample. Gloria had family in Florida and was reported to have possibly been seen on a Greyhound bus between Jacksonville and Georgia, although there's no guarantee that the girl was her. Anyway, it's a longshot and I'm very skeptical; but, it's something. I'm going to keep looking meanwhile and I'm going to work on making people more aware of the missing, even if it is her.

    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDHEARTNUMB

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    DNA in database?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie.Evins
    Received an e-mail regarding a Florida detective who believes that Gloria fits the profile of a certain Jane Doe who was found in Florida in 1971. I don't feel comfortable giving up too much information about that yet until I actually talk to the detective and supply a DNA sample. Gloria had family in Florida and was reported to have possibly been seen on a Greyhound bus between Jacksonville and Georgia, although there's no guarantee that the girl was her. Anyway, it's a longshot and I'm very skeptical; but, it's something. I'm going to keep looking meanwhile and I'm going to work on making people more aware of the missing, even if it is her.


    Has DNA been been entered into the national missing person database to help find her? If not others here might be able to point you in the right direction to get that done.

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    Dna

    No, my DNA hasn't been logged in anywhere. I'd love to take care of that. I was planning on just having the detective tell me how to go about doing that; but, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate the info. I realize it seems odd that this hasn't been done before; but, I have only recently decided to go public with her story. I had posted a thing here and there on the Net in the past; but, I never expected to open it up as much as I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by docwho3
    Has DNA been been entered into the national missing person database to help find her? If not others here might be able to point you in the right direction to get that done.

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    I hope it helps

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie.Evins
    No, my DNA hasn't been logged in anywhere. I'd love to take care of that. I was planning on just having the detective tell me how to go about doing that; but, if anyone knows, I'd appreciate the info. I realize it seems odd that this hasn't been done before; but, I have only recently decided to go public with her story. I had posted a thing here and there on the Net in the past; but, I never expected to open it up as much as I have.
    I don't know all the details but I found a few things on the web:

    https://mavdisk.mnsu.edu/bittid/fbin...dnadatabse.htm
    http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel...labs110205.htm

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    Gloria's Military Training...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie.Evins
    Interesting. I just took a closer look at her military records. Her Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty, reports that she had 7 weeks of "Clerical Typing and Proc." - "7 weeks - 1969/NOTHING FOLLOWS". "Time lost before normal expiration of term of service: 956 days." "Time lost after normal expiration of term of service 19 August 1972: 3,903 days".

    I would like to know where she was prior to those 7 weeks of clerical typing, why did her time expire on 08/19/72 and why did her discharge occur on 05/02/83.
    Gloria would have first gone through about 8 to 12 weeks of Army "boot camp" which is the basic military training that all new recruits go through. That is where they learn military history, courtesy, traditions, orders, marching, and such. Upon graduation from boot camp, soldiers are sent on for specific schools or training in the Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) that they will be assigned to. This would have been the Clerical Typing and Procedures Classes that she attended.

    As to WHERE her boot camp was and where her Clerical school was, that would be in her record, both in the orders section, and probably in other places. The Army had several large boot camps in 1969, but probably only one for women recruits. I will look into it and see if I can find out where that was.

    Soldiers enlist for a specific time frame. Back in 1969, I believe that it was a three year enlistment for Army, while other branches usually had four year enlistments. There was a war in Viet Nam, and the draft (for men) was at its peak about that time. The date of her enlistment would have determined when her EAOS (end of obligated service) was.

    When a service member goes AWOL or UA, the time that they are missing does not count as "good time" toward that enlistment. So the letter that you refer to means that she "lost" 956 days of her enlistment time by being absent or missing. Because they decided to give her a discharge and take her off the books in 1983, they had to account for the time between her EAOS date and the date of discharge. Thus the extra "3,903 days" that she didn't serve.

    It would seem that she was one day short of 10 weeks of active service when she disappeared.

    In 1976, while Gerald Ford was still President, he initiated a pardon procedure for Vietnam War Draft Dodgers and Deserters to return to the United States and turn them selves in. Jimmy Carter, upon entering office, made the program much broader, pardoning all Draft Dodgers and Deserters. Still there was some sort of a time limit and it was probably after that limit expired that the Army/FBI decided to "clear the books" of all outstanding AWOL/Desertion cases. Thus the letter and the subsequent discharge.

    The Army and the FBI have put you in the classic position of "Catch 22". They have assumed that Gloria intentionally deserted the army and intentionally refused to return when given the chance (their letter to your grandparents).

    Now the burden of proof is on YOU to show that she is dead before they will even talk to you!? How convenient for them. When neither the Army nor the great and powerful FBI can find their own butts with both hands, they insist that Gloria's daughter do their work for them. Who's on First?

    What can you do about this? Several things.

    First, you could go to court and request that your mother be legally declared dead, based on the circumstances and her long absence. Also, get the court to recognize you as her closest living heir and relative. This would remove any legal barriers thrown up by the Army or the FBI regarding the Privacy Act (which is what they probably cited in their refusal to release her records to you).

    Second, petition the Military Court of Appeals on her behalf to remove/reverse
    her Dishonorable Discharge. She cannot be tried in abstentia, and a Dishonorable Discharge can only be awarded by a Military Court Martial.

    If her discharge was not actually a Dishonorable Discharge, then it might have been one of the administrative types of discharge, like a General Discharge under Honorable Conditions, or an "Undesirable Discharge" (now called a discharge under conditions "Other than Honorable"). If this is the case, there is an administrative procedure to appeal the discharge, but you might still need to go through the Army Judge Advocate General system.

    Third, as already mentioned, get your DNA into the missing person data base. As her daughter, your Mitocondrial DNA is identical to hers. Your specific DNA will also be a match with hers. This will provide a way of matching any potential Jane Does to Gloria.

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  30. #25
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    Anybody heard anything lately on Gloria Jean?

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