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  1. #1
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    The bear, the pineapple and the size 12 bloomies...

    "If you could have one wish what would that wish be?"
    ...This was a common type of question asked of "Pagent Queens" in Patsy Ramsey's day... The typical response was always a 'performing type answer' such as' "If I could have only one wish, I would wish for WORLD PEACE."

    Every 'normal' female (non-homecoming queen, non-cheerleader, non-fashion show participant, non-beauty pagent contestant) gaged profucely every time they heard one of these 'fake' responses... (Personally, I was always one of the blue jean-tee shirt clad females, desperately trying not to hurl. ) By choice, Patsy was one of those 'people pleasing' types, as is evident by her pagent life, by her grooming her child for this type of life and by the way she presented herself on a daily basis dressed to the hilt and always with full facial make-up, perfected to a tee. ( Remember, it was also reported she had full make-up and her party clothes from the night before on,but had not showered, even on the day of the discovery of a ransom note and her daughter's body. The 'image' mattered.) Given that she performed for the public on a daily basis, how do you think she handled answering indepth questioning about her families and her REAL life?

    For 10 years Patsy Ramsey was stripped 'nekkid' by LE and the media for the world to view the genuine way that they conducted life 24/7 on a daily basis. She had to tell the WORLD that her murdered daughter frequently SOILED her pants. She had to answer questions about from where some stupid pineapple came, about a silly stuffed bear and about a stupid package of size 12 underware. She had to answer questions in which her answers would be ripped apart and scrutinized by the World. You know she had to fear her every word being taken out of context for the sole purpose of implicating her young son, her husband and/or herself in the horiffic murder of her little daughter. Her daughter was DEAD and these people were asking "Stupid Questions." The "Norman Rockwell" painting she constructed of her Life was melting faster than snow in the South.

    Can you for a second put yourself into her shoes and imagine the enormous level of stress that she was under having lost her daughter and still desperately attempting to hold together what was left of her family? The 'perfect' self-created illusions that were her life, were destroyed on Dec. 25, 1996. Her family was forever exposed for the World for public viewing.

    I don't have any opinion as to who murdered JonBenet. However, I do have an opinion about all of Patsy's responses to hours and hours of recorded questioning. If I was the mother of a murdered little angel like JonBenet, and if I was asked over and over what must have seemed like stupid questions about such things as size 12 underwear that I bought as a Christmas gift for a neice, I would have wanted to scream! I would have been a babbling idiot. Prior to Dec. 25th, my answers would have been coherant and non-implicating. After Dec. 25th, every word from my mouth would have indicated guilt. Until the day I died, I would have felt and shown guilt in my every answer to every 'stupid question' and in every lie detector test I took. That guilt would have been genuine. I would have felt GUILTY for feeling as if I had not done my # 1 job as a mother; to protect my little girl from being murdered.

    For what it is worth, I think Patsy Ramsey's maternal instinct influenced her every answer until her death in 2006. She tried to protect Burke, John, herself and JonBenet even after the murder. What 'good' Mother wouldn't? Does this make John or Burke or Patsy guilty? Absolutely not. Does it make the World question their guilt? Absolutely. So who is wrong? I would love to ask Princess Di her opinion about this. Diana was one of the few humans who could relate to having her life exposed, examined and purged to the degree that the Ramsey's have.


    From 1997 to Patsy's death in 2006, if she had been asked if she had one wish, I would bet that her answer wouldn't have a "D" thing to do with "World Peace". Patsy had to learn to 'get real' and to 'get real' quick. It must have been a very difficult transition to make for someone who had always presented a 'made-up' image for the World to see. There must have been great conflict between her characteristic 'beauty queen' answers and with her genuine, protective maternal answers.

    If Patsy's responses to what she must have viewed as 'stupid questions' were indeed tainted by 'beauty queen fake' combined with her genuine maternal protection, of what value are they to investigators? (LE, talking heads, or WS'ers) In my opinion, they are of very little value. So why do we continue to debate them as if they were authentic fact?

    Patsy's answers to questions about the bear, the pineapple, and the size 12 underwear and every debate which used these answers as 'fact' should have been figuratively buried long, long ago with JonBenet. IMO, they are worthless.

  2. #2

    The Bear, Pineapple and Size 12 Bloomies

    If the clues leading toward finding the monster who took the life of my child were a bear, a pineapple and a pair of size 12 bloomies, I would be grateful for their existance.

    I would give any and all information at my disposal and hope that I could come up with more.

  3. #3
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    angelwings,

    I thought I was out of here for the day, off to take a long nap, but I came back to take one more look and here you are with this very poignant post. I couldn't agree with you more although I never could have said everything as well as you did, so thank you for posting about this mother in a human light. That's the way I see her too, as a human being, a woman who loved her little girl so very much and never could have done those awful things.

    Granted, I have in my lifetime seen mothers who could have perpetrated such a heinous act, but they weren't your all American girls like Ms. Ramsey, they were drugheads and deadbeats, pshychos since a young age. This particular mother was never any of those things. There is no violence or ugliness in her background, she was just a Mom doing the best she could with immense hurdles to cross sometimes. Bedwetting could have never set her off into the kind of rage she's been accused of by so many, IMHO. I feel so sorry that her memory and her soul can not just be left at peace to rest with JonBenet now.

    Now I am off to take a nap because I have been up all night reading this board, looking for answers. Tonight shall be a new night, I'll look more then.

    Thanks again angelwings.

    Within the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved. Please consider a shelter or rescue pet.


  4. #4
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    "Bedwetting could have never set her off into the kind of rage she's been accused of by so many, IMHO."

    I used to think that, too. But you know what people are like.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolynna
    If the clues leading toward finding the monster who took the life of my child were a bear, a pineapple and a pair of size 12 bloomies, I would be grateful for their existance.

    I would give any and all information at my disposal and hope that I could come up with more.
    ~~~~Jolynna,
    In a "Perfect World", I would hope that I, too would be able to "give any and all information at my disposal" to help catch and 'put away' my child's murderer. Being the same age as Patsy was when she died in June, I now realize that under such extreme stress, my answers, to the hours and hours of questioning, would be deeply compromised and far from totally authentic.

    I remember viewing pictures of myself during the year following the suprising death of my father some 20 years ago. Although I never took any medication, the pictures of me in that year following Dad's death looked as if I was highly medicated. I also remember when I returned to work, how infuriated I was with the common day to day questions of people. I remember wondering how they could possibly ask questions about the weather as if it were important, when I was realizing that what was really important was "Life". I can only imagine how someone who lost a loved one, especially a child of theirs to murder, might view endless questions even if they pertained to facts about the home, surroundings, etc. of my family. I think that I would view these questions as irrevalent and would be wishing that instead they were out looking for the killer of my precious child. I am not saying that this is rational.

    Facts about the Ramsey family surroundings were indeed pertanent to the case. However, if in this same situation, in my shock and pain, I am sure that I would see less validity to their purpose and I am sure my answers would reflect my disgust and my confusion, as did Patsy's if one presumes she is innocent of any involvment. If she is considered guilty, one would have to take into consideration the fact that her answers were compromised by her attempting to recreate the image of her "perfect world".

    My being Neutral as to Patsy's or anyone elses guilt or innocence in JBR's murder, Patsy's answers remain tainted at best, IMO
    This is why I think that all of her responses to questioning are of little value in being viewed as "authentic" by anyone investigating this case.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelwngs
    ~~~~Jolynna,
    In a "Perfect World", I would hope that I, too would be able to "give any and all information at my disposal" to help catch and 'put away' my child's murderer. Being the same age as Patsy was when she died in June, I now realize that under such extreme stress, my answers, to the hours and hours of questioning, would be deeply compromised and far from totally authentic.

    I remember viewing pictures of myself during the year following the suprising death of my father some 20 years ago. Although I never took any medication, the pictures of me in that year following Dad's death looked as if I was highly medicated. I also remember when I returned to work, how infuriated I was with the common day to day questions of people. I remember wondering how they could possibly ask questions about the weather as if it were important, when I was realizing that what was really important was "Life". I can only imagine how someone who lost a loved one, especially a child of theirs to murder, might view endless questions even if they pertained to facts about the home, surroundings, etc. of my family. I think that I would view these questions as irrevalent and would be wishing that instead they were out looking for the killer of my precious child. I am not saying that this is rational.

    Facts about the Ramsey family surroundings were indeed pertanent to the case. However, if in this same situation, in my shock and pain, I am sure that I would see less validity to their purpose and I am sure my answers would reflect my disgust and my confusion, as did Patsy's if one presumes she is innocent of any involvment. If she is considered guilty, one would have to take into consideration the fact that her answers were compromised by her attempting to recreate the image of her "perfect world".

    My being Neutral as to Patsy's or anyone elses guilt or innocence in JBR's murder, Patsy's answers remain tainted at best, IMO
    This is why I think that all of her responses to questioning are of little value in being viewed as "authentic" by anyone investigating this case.
    And I'll grant you that. There is no "right" way to respond in a situation like this. But weeks later to say she is "not angry" at the killer and just wants to get on with her life? NOT ANGRY?! at the person who brutally killed her beautiful daughter? and not interested in catching that person?? That's a response I'm afraid I just don't understand.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssiegmund
    And I'll grant you that. There is no "right" way to respond in a situation like this. But weeks later to say she is "not angry" at the killer and just wants to get on with her life? NOT ANGRY?! at the person who brutally killed her beautiful daughter? and not interested in catching that person?? That's a response I'm afraid I just don't understand.
    ~~~~SSiegmund,

    Are you a fake person or a real person? If you are (and if you have always been a real person), you would most probably be angry and 'out to find your child's killer until the day you died' or until he/she was found and justice rendered. On the other hand, if you were/are a fake person, one who lived their live projecting an image of the perfect "Norman Rockwell Life", you just might try very hard to pick up the pieces of that self-created imagery and glue the remaining pieces back into place, as your means of recreating 'your reality'.

    Like you, SSiegmund, I can't relate to these actions personally, but I sure have known people in my life who would have gone to such extremes as Patsy seemed to do to recreate the IMAGE of their 'perfect life'. (By the way, they are still in therapy.)

  8. #8
    I am a real person...the mother of three and also the grandmother of 3. So like you, it IS hard to relate to someone being that self-absorbed or to believe that ANYONE with any maternal instinct would be so cold. No matter how fake.

    "If I was the mother of a murdered little angel like JonBenet, and if I was asked over and over what must have seemed like stupid questions about such things as size 12 underwear that I bought as a Christmas gift for a neice,"


    I cannot imagine considering questions about where the size 12 underwear found on my size 6 murdered daughter, stupid ones. I would think providing the information about where those panties came from would be extremely important information. As would be knowing where the bear or the pineapple came from.

    Who, other than the person in charge of feeding and clothing that little girl, would better know which leads were dead ends and which needed to be followed up?

    Perfect world? Getting on with my life? Without resolution and knowing what had happened to my murdered child???????

  9. #9
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    Wink

    If the underpants are much bigger then JonBent's size, then where did they come from and who do they belong to.
    Also I am still at, who would know where dad got a 118,000 bonus? Now how many people would know that?
    Police should go backwards and start from there...

    I don't believe that Karr carries an extra pair of underwear with him or would know that the dad got a 118,000 bonus...
    Last edited by Pharlap; 08-26-2006 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    Did he really get a $118,000 bonus??? I read somewhere that it actually was a different amount.

    I can also see a kid having a fit to have something you bought for someone else whether or not it fits them and can see them putting it on...(been there done that). And I have bought underwear for my niece to stick in with another gift. So whenever anyone says ....I never would have done that...there is someone who would have.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolynna
    I am a real person...the mother of three and also the grandmother of 3.

    "If I was the mother of a murdered little angel like JonBenet, and if I was asked over and over what must have seemed like stupid questions about such things as size 12 underwear that I bought as a Christmas gift for a neice,"

    I cannot imagine considering questions about where the size 12 underwear found on my size 6 murdered daughter, stupid ones. I would think that knowing where those panties came from would be extremely important information. As would be knowing where the bear or the pineapple came from.

    Perfect world? Getting on with my life? Without resolution and knowing what had happened to my murdered child???????
    ~~~~Exactly my point. My question was not meant to ignite a fire under you accusing you of being fake. I assumed that you were "real" and your words indicate that you are. You obviously can't for a second relate to someone who did NOT live their life as a realist. PR, however seemed to live in a self-created, beauty pagent oriented, upper class, world of pretence and image. Right or wrong, maintaining this image was 'her world', the only one she knew. She was the one who created this "Perfect World" image and whoever the murder of JBR was immediately shattered it. IMO PR did desperately try to pick up the pieces that were left and put them back together as best she could. Sadly, I think 'Image" still very much mattered to her.

    A realist in the JBR murder aftermath, could only view questions about the size 12 bloomies as "stupid" when he/she was in shock over the grief of losing a daughter to murder or if asked over and over and over the same question, after she had already answered that they were bought as a gift for a niece but decided not to give them as such and were given to her child instead. (the same with the pineapple and the bear...all are valid, inportant questions to someone thinking from a realist point of view and not in shock or not reaching total frustration by them having been asked over and over again)

    When I have been in a state of shock over traumatic events in my life I have viewed certain comments or questions as stupid simply due to the stress, shock and grief that I was experiencing at the time. Life and the loss of it became the focus of my relmn of what was truly important. Until the shock subsided, I did not realize that many questions or comments asked of me or made to me were made by people not feeling the same level of shock as I. They automatically expected me to respond as they would, with a rational answers. At those times I was incapable of rational answers.


    Like many 911 operators in many given recordings, as well as every time I have personally had to call 911, saying, "Calm down." If you are calling 911, chances are you are not involved in a terribly CALM situation at that moment. Saying, "Calm down." to a rational person is a rational comment. Saying "CALM DOWN." to a person in shock who is not thinking rationally is perceived as a very stupid thing to be directed. The 911 operator needs calm, coherant responses and should ask for it, but I doubt that her directives for 'calmness' do much more than frustrate a caller who is in shock. Maybe it would be better to ask that the person speaks more slowly...more clearly or lower... or whatever... in order to be understood... But "Calm Down." is a ridiculous directive inciting frustration and more stress. If someone had been in the same room with me to physically slap me and say, "Get a grip! These people need rational, calm answers!", the 911 operator might have gotten the responses she wanted. Unfortunately, everyone around me was more hysterical than myself.


    ("If I was the mother of a murdered little angel like JonBenet, and if I was asked over and over what must have seemed like stupid questions about such things as size 12 underwear that I bought as a Christmas gift for a neice,") I think PR may have felt these were stupid questions...to be asked over and over when she felt she had explained enough.


    For what it is worth. I respect your thoughts and opinions. I am simply trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that did not often think, act or respond as I hope that I would in this given situation (or in any other situation in Life, for that matter) and to try find some rational as to why she may have responded or acted in the manner in which she did.

  12. #12
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    "Bedwetting could have never set her off into the kind of rage she's been accused of by so many, IMHO."

    I used to think that, too. But you know what people are like.
    Would stage 3 cervical cancer set someone off? Could a woman feel inside that a childbirth could trigger such a disease? What do woman with such a condition think?

    Who knows?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharlap
    If the underpants are much bigger then JonBent's size, then where did they come from and who do they belong to.
    Also I am still at who would know that dad got a 118,000 bonus? Now how many people would know that?
    Police should go backwards and start from there...

    I don't believe this Karr carries a pair of underwear with him or would know that the dad got a 118,000 bonus...
    Pharlap, I have read that PR stated she bought the size 12 bloomies from Bloomingdales as a gift for her neice. She also bought a pack like them in JBR's size for her. "They" decided not to give the size 12 pack to the neice because JBR like them so much or because they just never made it to the neice... I believe that I read that PR said that JBR opened the pack herself which most likely would have required scissors or a knife or something of the like to have opened the tough, thick packaging. As far as I have read the 'when and where' of these decissions and the actual opening of them and storage of them after their opening was not explained by PR. JBR had a pair of the size 12 bloomies on at the time her body was found. To my knowledge, no one ever recorded where the remaining undies from the pack were. (missing, in JBR's drawer, still in the pack lying out on her dressing table, or in the dirty clothes???) The remaining pack seems to have been considered unimportant enough to have ever recorded its whereabouts or maybe considered Very Important, as the murderer may have taken the rest of them as a 'trophy' and the LE never released this information...???

    The 118,000+ bonus check stub has been said, to have been available in the home 'office' for anyone plundering about to have seen.

    Who knows???... If only they had a rewind button and could actually secure the crime scene and redo the blunders... No...!!! Rewind and prevent the whole tragedy!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoe_horn
    Would stage 3 cervical cancer set someone off? Could a woman feel inside that a childbirth could trigger such a disease? What do woman with such a condition think?

    Who knows?
    Was it cervical cancer? I thought it was ovarian cancer. Did it begin as cervical cancer matasticise (whew spelling??? stinks, sorry) to ovarian cancer? Does anyone know?

    I had stage 3 cervical cancer and I can tell you that after my hysterectomy, I went through some irrational.... "I am no longer a real woman" thoughts... It was pretty insane at the time... but I never questioned why I had cancer? Now in 2006 we know that it starts from having a virus, so I now I can finally blame it on my Ex-hubby who was less than monogamus in our lousy relationship.

  15. #15
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    I understand what Angelwngs is getting at.....
    The Xmas newsletter is a great example of the world that Patsy lived in (in her mind)....full of bragging about her "perfect family" & "perfect lifestyle"........definitely no mention of the little girl who regularly "soiled" herself...or the disobedient child, who refused to wear matching outfits to a party....
    With Patsy, it was ALL about image....

    Imagine that world being blown apart...not only by the death of a loved daughter, but by the exposure to the world, of the "not so perfect" parts......
    It must have been very difficult , for a woman, who tried to portray the perfect life.....not only to others, but to herself as well....
    For her own comfort zone ...& I would go so far as to say sanity....it would be important for her to attempt to get all her ducks back in a row......

    I know this is not a normal reaction....but, as Angelwngs has said, Patsy did not embrace "normality".......she lived her life as an actress on the screen...the life of a "beauty queen", "trophy wife", "socialite"............nothing was "normal" about her....
    Why would we expect normal reactions?

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