Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 117

Thread: They need to arrest John Ramsey soon...

  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,469
    lilpony--what exactly are you saying? that you can't believe the R's killed their daughter? molested their daughter'? the garrote? the paintbrush? which part? or all parts?

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    Well, let's see.
    Maybe it has something to do with their lying and their refusal to co operate with LE.
    Maybe it has something to do with PR not being able to be eliminated as the writer of the note.
    Maybe it has something to do with the fact they were trying to get out of town within the hour of their daughters body being found.
    Maybe it has something to do with fibre evidence.
    You want more reasons, I got more
    What exactly was their explanation for wanting to leave town immediately following the discovery of their daughter's body? I've never really heard what they gave as their rationale for such an odd reaction.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by julianne
    LinasK....

    I don't think lilpony was saying she couldn't believe molestation could not happen. We all know that happens, and I am sorry your Mother chose to not believe you. That is terrible, and I am sure has affected you for a long time.

    As sick, twisted & perverted molestation/incest is...there is a HUGE difference between that and murder.
    Julianne, thats correct. I was implying molestation couldn't happen, of course it can and does. I meant that I can't believe JBR parents could murder her in that way, and be able to cover it up, without breaking. Its just unbelieveable.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,469
    lilpony,you don't think Susan Smith case was worse than this? I do

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by michelle
    Like I said in my original post, its been awhile but I have read alot on this case. I just want to know what are the reasons people believe in their guilt, I am allowed to ask.
    You have to look at it like a crime novel, or a made for TV movie. The reason you have to look at it that way is this - all we can do is speculate from the evidence available to the public. Sort of like figuring it out from clues in a novel or in a movie.

    A crime novel where police are called in to investigate a rape/murder, and where on page 2, they find the father's semen in the girl's vagina and his fingerprints on the blody knife would be a very short book, and not much of a thriller.

    We aren't going to get iron-clad evidence in this case. Not enough for a conviction anyway. Can fibers innocently get entwined in the garrotte? I don't know. We have to call in fiber experts. Since both sides will do this, there's no doubt the fiber experts will disagree.

    If this is ever solved it will be like on TV. The suspect will break down and sob and admit guilt. IOW, this case will never be solved, and will never go to trial.

    But we can look at the evidence and ask where it leads us. Many of us think the RDI makes the most sense. We'll never have the sort of proof that will hold up in court, but we're still convinced.

    I'll give you a few reasons for a start, then let others continue.


    A. The ransom note is staging, there was never an actual kidnapping planned, which later went bad. Why ?

    1. Dead bodies left in the house with RNs donít often result in payment of ransom.

    2. It was hand written. Most RN authors would like to avoid it being
    traced to them. The R's if covering up, wouldn't have had a choice.

    3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

    4. Itís the longest, most rambling RN in history. It just doesnít seem
    like a real RN.

    5. Itís written on the Rís paper, with one of their sharpie markers. A real kidnapper would have come prepared with the RN already written.

    If itís staging, who has more reason to write it, an intruder paedo with no intention of collecting ransom, or the Rís to coverup? I think the later.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,469
    Dr Jeffrey McDonald stabbed his own little kids to death--So did Darlie Routier--what's worse than that?

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by ljwf22
    Isn't true that LE didn't obtain they clothes the Ramseys were wearing until almost a year after the crime? I heard a clip where Patsy stated 'They never asked (which I'm not sure I believe)', 'We couldn't even remember what we were wearing' and 'They had to show us pictures (of what they were wearing)'


    Whaaaaat, your kidding me! Thats crazy! How come the case was fumbled so badly...weird!

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,469
    Chrishope--nice post

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpony
    Well, I am just not sure that they did this. I know parents everyday, murder their children and abuse them. But with this case, the way JBR was murdered. I just do not want to believe that they would do all this to their little girl. I just can't believe it, I just can't go there. It has to be proven to me that they did it. I just don't know how a parent could do this. I can't comprehend it or I just don't want too.
    Do you understand what I am trying to say?
    No. I don't really care who did it. I don't find the idea of he parents doing it any more disturbing than an intruder doing it. This stuff happens. Parents have done similar things. So have intruders.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Hamilton
    lilpony--what exactly are you saying? that you can't believe the R's killed their daughter? molested their daughter'? the garrote? the paintbrush? which part? or all parts?
    Oh boy, I am under pressure, hehe!! I don't preform well under pressure! LOL

    Ok, I DON"T want to believe they killed their daughter, its not proven to me yet. I can't believe they would use a garrote, on their little girl, how can they go that far. If they did this, they are twisted and sick!

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    10,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    You have to look at it like a crime novel, or a made for TV movie. The reason you have to look at it that way is this - all we can do is speculate from the evidence available to the public. Sort of like figuring it out from clues in a novel or in a movie.

    A crime novel where police are called in to investigate a rape/murder, and where on page 2, they find the father's semen in the girl's vagina and his fingerprints on the blody knife would be a very short book, and not much of a thriller.

    We aren't going to get iron-clad evidence in this case. Not enough for a conviction anyway. Can fibers innocently get entwined in the garrotte? I don't know. We have to call in fiber experts. Since both sides will do this, there's no doubt the fiber experts will disagree.

    If this is ever solved it will be like on TV. The suspect will break down and sob and admit guilt. IOW, this case will never be solved, and will never go to trial.

    But we can look at the evidence and ask where it leads us. Many of us think the RDI makes the most sense. We'll never have the sort of proof that will hold up in court, but we're still convinced.

    I'll give you a few reasons for a start, then let others continue.

    My theory of the case. JRDI

    A. The ransom note is staging, there was never an actual kidnapping planned, which later went bad. Why ?

    1. Dead bodies left in the house with RNs donít often result in payment of ransom.

    2. It was hand written. Most RN authors would like to avoid it being
    traced to them. The R's if covering up, wouldn't have had a choice.

    3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

    4. Itís the longest, most rambling RN in history. It just doesnít seem
    like a real RN.

    5. Itís written on the Rís paper, with one of their sharpie markers. A real kidnapper would have come prepared with the RN already written.

    If itís staging, who has more reason to write it, an intruder paedo with no intention of collecting ransom, or the Rís to coverup? I think the later.
    The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    10,039
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpony
    Oh boy, I am under pressure, hehe!! I don't preform well under pressure! LOL

    Ok, I DON"T want to believe they killed their daughter, its not proven to me yet. I can't believe they would use a garrote, on their little girl, how can they go that far. If they did this, they are twisted and sick!
    I know exactly what you are getting at lilpony, its hard for us to comprehend that a parent can do this but they can, and they unfortunatly will continue too. I cant go there either because I am a parent too and it sickens me.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    18,874
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpony
    LinasK. I am so sorry. If they did this, there should have been something that would have pointed directly to them. And if there was, why wasn't something done about it. I mean how could they cover for this horrible crime. Wouldn't you think they could break one of them? This is so frustrating isn't it? Confusing too!
    Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

    I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.



  14. #64
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,469
    michelle,then neighbors will tell the cops,hey the R's took the car out in the middle of the night--well,it worked for Wayne Williams for a while,he threwa lot of bodies in the river---still its quite risky

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Another reason.

    B. This was a sex crime.

    1. Whoever killed JBR was a really pervy paedo. This is true whether it was JR or an intruder.

    2. Whoever put the garrotte around her neck knew something of the kinky world of errotic asphyxiation, or wanted to explore it. This isnít something the parents would do, as staging, if they hadn't known anyting of these kinds of sexual practices.

    3. At the same time, the garrotte wasnít very ďprofessionalĒ. If a ring of Paedos was involved, or even just one paedo who had some ďfriendsĒ someone would have helped him make a good one. This garrotte was someoneís first go at AE.

    4. The garrotte was made at the scene. An intruder pervy paedo would have brought one ready made.

    It's not really proveable either way, but to go with an IDI theory you have to believe in an inept intruder, who doesn't really know how to make a garrotte, and doesn't bother to bring one with him, prefering instead to hope that the home will contain the necessary materials. Since it was built on the body, you also have to believe he frittered away the several hours he spent in the house by working crossword puzzles instead of making the garrotte he planned to use later that night. It just makes more sense to me that an R did this.

  16. #66
    3. 118K points to someone who knows JRís bonus. No real kidnapper or intruder would point to himself that way.

    the reason for the $118,000 was to throw suspicion toward JR's co-workers, imo...

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Hamilton
    lilpony,you don't think Susan Smith case was worse than this? I do
    Hmmmmm, that was pretty horrible as well.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    No. I don't really care who did it. I don't find the idea of he parents doing it any more disturbing than an intruder doing it. This stuff happens. Parents have done similar things. So have intruders.
    Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by michelle
    The RN is the longest one in history I think, It makes no sense at all. It all too me makes no sense, lol. Thats why I am asking, It just seems like if they killed her couldnt they have gone about it differently like writing the note then taking her body somewhere else? Why leave it in the house?
    Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

    JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    7,454
    Quote Originally Posted by LinasK
    Thank-you Lilpony, Peter & others who have responded. It happened over 30 years ago, so I've had time to deal with it.

    I believe Patsy stood by her man. That's why she wrote the ransom note and they did all the staging- to make it look like an intruder rather than admit her husband was molesting her daughter and face all the negative PR that would bring. When John saw he strangled her, JB got finished off with a head blow rather than seek medical help.
    If JR strangled her, why would then have to do the head blow. She would have been already dead.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    10,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope
    Why indeed. Why was it not discovered by FW or the police that morning? Perhaps it wasn't in the room at that time. I'm only speculating here.

    JR was down the basement mid-morning. He discovered an unlatched window a few hours after finding out his daughter had been kidnapped. By the time he got to the top of the steps he'd forgotten about it, and so didn't tell the police that were standing in his living room. 4 months later, he remembers. When you look at the actions/statements of the Ramseys it's hard not to be suspicious of them.
    Oh I admit that 2 things stand out to me more then anything and that is the window, why not tell right away that is so important and 2 how was her body over looked the first time they went to search the house? I dont get that? I know that they thought they were dealing with a kidnapping but I would rip that house apart looking for my child. But those things can be explained as well.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpony
    Do you think both parents did it. Or one of them, and then the other covered for the other?
    I think it's more likely JR was the sexual molester. It would be more common for a man to do this than a woman. I think Patsy knew what JR was doing to JBR. Why did she go along? Don't know. I only know that women have gone along with this sort of activity in other cases. It's not unusual for a woman to overlook this kind of thing rather than risk loosing a boyfriend. In this case, it's not some looser boyfriend, but a millionaire husband.

    I think JR might have been expirementing with AE and it cause JBR to have heart failure. They had to hit her in the head to make it seem she was attacked by an intruder. I think Patsy went along with the coverup.

    It's just a theory.

    Another reason so many of us on the RDI side sometimes act is if we are certain is that the IDI theory has so many holes in it.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,189
    Quote Originally Posted by lilpony
    [/b]

    Whaaaaat, your kidding me! Thats crazy! How come the case was fumbled so badly...weird!

    Not only that, but LE let Patsy's sister into the house the next day to get "some clothing for them to wear to the funeral", and she took tons of stuff out of the house - including the black pants and black boots that Patsy had worn on Christmas day (and was still wearing the next day).

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,832
    Chrishope,

    I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

    Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,870
    Quote Originally Posted by julianne
    Chrishope,

    I have heard that the reasoning behind some people think that the garrotte was built on her body was because her hair was tangled in it.

    Why isn't it possible that the garrotte was built PRIOR to being wrapped around her, and then her hair got tangled in it during the wrapping and/or twisting of the garrotte????
    It's possible but not probable. The way that particular garrotte worked -or was suppossed to work, had it been made by someone knowing what they were doing, is that one pulls the handle to tighten the "noose" part. Twisting the handle would do nothing at all.

    Pulling on it could catch some hairs, and pull them out, but probably wouldn't twist them.

    It is possilbe that her hair got tangle in it somehow, even if it were already built prior to use. It just doesn't seem the most likely explanation -imo.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •