Was Patsy a movie buff?
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AZ AZ - Tempe, HispFem, UP1987, 15-19, hitchhiking, overdose, Apr'02- Latest: AguaFlorida2001
It's likely they watched many movies. It's unlikely they kept ransom quotes handy in their memory bank to use for the accidental death of jonbenet.
I've watched many movies. I've probably seen almost every popular movie that comes out on dvd. I've seen RANSOM with Mel Gibson about 10 times. The only quote that stands out is "gimme back my son". Why would John Ramsey remember quotes like those in the ransom note? There is no indication that John was ever interested in kidnapping movies or obsessed about them to the point he remembered ALL the lines that were at a point in the movie where the kidnapper makes his demands.
John Ramsey wouldn't have allowed Patsy to leave a note like that, or been involved in such a half-baked scheme. He was a pleasant, intelligent, bright individual who built his business from scratch. No way, no how, not in a million years.
There is also no evidence whatsoever that John was a sexual abuser of his daughters or anyone else for that matter. Even amatuerish detective Thomas never alleged that.
The strangulation came first. Cyril wecht and most others all agree there was no bash on the head first. Blood vessels broken in her eyes which clear cut sign of strangulation.
I've watched many movies. I've probably seen almost every popular movie that comes out on dvd. I've seen RANSOM with Mel Gibson about 10 times. The only quote that stands out is "gimme back my son". Why would John Ramsey remember quotes like those in the ransom note? There is no indication that John was ever interested in kidnapping movies or obsessed about them to the point he remembered ALL the lines that were at a point in the movie where the kidnapper makes his demands.
John Ramsey wouldn't have allowed Patsy to leave a note like that, or been involved in such a half-baked scheme. He was a pleasant, intelligent, bright individual who built his business from scratch. No way, no how, not in a million years.
There is also no evidence whatsoever that John was a sexual abuser of his daughters or anyone else for that matter. Even amatuerish detective Thomas never alleged that.
The strangulation came first. Cyril wecht and most others all agree there was no bash on the head first. Blood vessels broken in her eyes which clear cut sign of strangulation.
Juliet10 said:
I don't think the writer of the ransom note necessarily watched all a variety of kidnapping movies and cut and pasted various lines from them into their ransom note. All the lines are very stereotypical and lame. They're just stock standard "kidnapping" expressions that are in the public consciousness so I don't think that you'd necessarily have to be a movie buff to know them. You hear lines like that in practically every crime oriented tv show you watch.
It seems like the sort of thing that a non-kidnapper would think you'd need to write in a convincing ransom note.
One could think of the ransom note as a means for the killer to misdirect the police investigation. If you remember that (oft-spoofed) film, the Usual Suspects, a story is fabricated from elements taken from bits and pieces (the mug, snippets on the wall, etc). Now, JonBenet's killer, thinking along similar lines, could have taken elements from the house and incorporated that into the fake ransom note to subtly implicate the Ramseys: SBTC from the plaque in John's office, movie references thinking that the Ramseys are movie fans (from the posters), the similar handwriting (several attempts were made to try and match it with Paty's).
The ransom note was amateurish because it was not intended as a ransom note, it was intended as a way to mislead the police and to cast suspicion on the Ramseys. Of course, when John was questioned whether he believed the note was used to frame him, he had to dismiss it as a stretch because to say, 'someone tried to frame me' would look even worse!
Anyway, I may or may not believe the above. I'm just floating it as an idea to explain the movie references. After all, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... [JonBenet's killer] is gone."
The ransom note was amateurish because it was not intended as a ransom note, it was intended as a way to mislead the police and to cast suspicion on the Ramseys. Of course, when John was questioned whether he believed the note was used to frame him, he had to dismiss it as a stretch because to say, 'someone tried to frame me' would look even worse!
Anyway, I may or may not believe the above. I'm just floating it as an idea to explain the movie references. After all, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist. And like that... [JonBenet's killer] is gone."
"The ransom note was amateurish because it was not intended as a ransom note, it was intended as a way to mislead the police and to cast suspicion on the Ramseys."
Except it points AWAY from them, on the face of it. An intruder wouldn't stage a crime to LOOK like an intruder.
Except it points AWAY from them, on the face of it. An intruder wouldn't stage a crime to LOOK like an intruder.
I have no firm opinion, one way or another, on the crime itself. I only posit that the killer may have written the note using reverse psychology, and thus, whatever it points to superficially (i.e. a kidnapping) in fact points to the opposite (i.e. an inside job). The miscellaneous references gleaned from inside the house and the amateurish way in which it was written supports such a theory.SuperDave said:
I have been a reader for the past 8-10 years. This is my first post! After the excitement of possibly finding the killer only to find out the DA, whoever had no hard evidence, it drove me to come back and talk.
Two things come to mind for me when it comes to the theory that the Ramsey's wrote the ransom note.
1. I've read that many "lines from different movies" were in the note. Readers have written which movies they came from. If the Ramsey's were avid movie watchers with a home theatre, were their movies checked to see if they owned these movies --or-- were records checked from their local video store of movies they rented? Just a thought because I agree, how would you know those lines off the top of your head especially in a moment.
2. I can't imagine the state of mind I would be in if a) I murdered my child or b) I found my child gone or murdered - I still can't comprehend how a parent could sit down and write such a long note AND include lines from movies. When I get upset, I can't even remember lyrics to my favorite song. To me, that has always been the clincher that the Ramsey's DID NOT write the note. If the note was short and sweet - yes. But this long and drawn out with movies quotes? Again, think of their state of mind, whether they did kill her or not? And on top of that, write so it does not look like your handwriting.
But again, anything is possible. Thoughts?
Two things come to mind for me when it comes to the theory that the Ramsey's wrote the ransom note.
1. I've read that many "lines from different movies" were in the note. Readers have written which movies they came from. If the Ramsey's were avid movie watchers with a home theatre, were their movies checked to see if they owned these movies --or-- were records checked from their local video store of movies they rented? Just a thought because I agree, how would you know those lines off the top of your head especially in a moment.
2. I can't imagine the state of mind I would be in if a) I murdered my child or b) I found my child gone or murdered - I still can't comprehend how a parent could sit down and write such a long note AND include lines from movies. When I get upset, I can't even remember lyrics to my favorite song. To me, that has always been the clincher that the Ramsey's DID NOT write the note. If the note was short and sweet - yes. But this long and drawn out with movies quotes? Again, think of their state of mind, whether they did kill her or not? And on top of that, write so it does not look like your handwriting.
But again, anything is possible. Thoughts?
I don't they deliberately quoted any movies. These weren't exact quotes from the movies - I think that when Patsy was trying to formulate a note that sounded like a ransom note she was trying to sound like kidnappers she'd seen in the movies. I think she had a vague memory of Ransom or Nick of Time in a general way of how the kidnappers acted, not an exact recall. It was just a subconscious thing: I doubt she'd be able to tell you what movies they came from because they probably were jus misc. bits in her mind that she had a vague recall of and put together in her creation of a kidnapper. Like if I was trying to fake a note written by a lawyer or a cop I'd probably unknowingly use phrases I'd heard off Law & Order or something. I couldn't tell you exactly what episodes or where I heard them, just an idea of how a movie cop or movie lawyer would sound like.
Karr is gone, but what I did learn from Karr and the kidnap crime movie RN was this:
A person such as Karr, so obsessed with kidnap pedophile crimes, would want to express his knowledge. Before Karr was released, I thought that the RN would make total sense if it was Karr or someone like Karr who wrote it. Consider a pervert like Karr did write it (merely the writing down of all those rehearsed, repeated lines as a form of expression) - he had to write it out, just as he had to murder her.
That leads me to another point. I find it hard to believe that a parent could pull off all those lines to just cover a rage accident. They would have to remember all those lines very well. Also, they didn't appear to be the folks that watched those kind of movies. So, the missing cel phone records bothered me. I thought maybe someone coached them over the phone. But think about that. That would be so weird to call up a lawyer who then calls up someone who knows kidnap crime movies back and forth.
It just makes sense that whoever wrote the note was indeed obsessed with the kidnap crime movies and that's why they wrote it. Sure it was a diversion, but I think it was more than just that. It was an expression.
Who in the family, friend or acquaintance was into kidnap crime movies? I think that is the answer to JonBenet.
Ah. Maybe this whole Karr escapade was just a promotion to get us folks thinking about the possibility of a such a nutcake.
A person such as Karr, so obsessed with kidnap pedophile crimes, would want to express his knowledge. Before Karr was released, I thought that the RN would make total sense if it was Karr or someone like Karr who wrote it. Consider a pervert like Karr did write it (merely the writing down of all those rehearsed, repeated lines as a form of expression) - he had to write it out, just as he had to murder her.
That leads me to another point. I find it hard to believe that a parent could pull off all those lines to just cover a rage accident. They would have to remember all those lines very well. Also, they didn't appear to be the folks that watched those kind of movies. So, the missing cel phone records bothered me. I thought maybe someone coached them over the phone. But think about that. That would be so weird to call up a lawyer who then calls up someone who knows kidnap crime movies back and forth.
It just makes sense that whoever wrote the note was indeed obsessed with the kidnap crime movies and that's why they wrote it. Sure it was a diversion, but I think it was more than just that. It was an expression.
Who in the family, friend or acquaintance was into kidnap crime movies? I think that is the answer to JonBenet.
Ah. Maybe this whole Karr escapade was just a promotion to get us folks thinking about the possibility of a such a nutcake.
PagingDrDetect
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Beside JR's side of the bed was found the book "Mind Hunter" by John Douglas (who ironically now pimps for the Ramsey's). In that book there is a chapter on staging a crime scene.
http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/home.php
http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/home.php
Guy_in_Georgia
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According to Steve Thomas, there was a movie screen in the bedroom, that came down out of the ceiling at the flick of a switch. I know where this is goinWarsawJoy said:
PagingDrDetect
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Guy_in_Georgia said:According to Steve Thomas, there was a movie screen in the bedroom, that came down out of the ceiling at the flick of a switch. I know where this is goin
Ooooooooooo! Cleanse your filthy mind! Clorox and a big soapy brush for you! 
angelwngs
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Quote Rupert: "Ah. Maybe this whole Karr escapade was just a promotion to get us folks thinking about the possibility of a such a nutcake."
Quote Super Dave:"Rupert, I have no doubt that's exactly what it was!"
I think this was only a promotion for a book coming out soon. I do not think that the R camp couldn't control this snowball rolling downhill at full speed... If they are 'guilty', they just wanted this disaster to be buried forever at the bottom of a very deep snow drift, IMO.
Quote Super Dave:"Rupert, I have no doubt that's exactly what it was!"
I think this was only a promotion for a book coming out soon. I do not think that the R camp couldn't control this snowball rolling downhill at full speed... If they are 'guilty', they just wanted this disaster to be buried forever at the bottom of a very deep snow drift, IMO.