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  1. #1

    blue hair ties/black outfit...does not match!

    JonBenet was found with a blue hair tie on...which does not match the outfit she wore to the Whites.

    Patsy wanted JonBenet to dress like her Christmas evening, but JonBenet refused to wear the red turtleneck.

    What really upsets me is that LE who interrogated Patsy did not bring up JonBenet's hairstyle or what color hair ties Patsy put on her.

    Did Patsy fix JonBenet's hair before going to the Whites....and if so, why not black hair ties...or even white?

    Why blue?
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  2. #2
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    I am another that has brought up Jonbenet's hairstyle the night of her death. Not so much the hairtie colors, but just look at all of the pictures, even the ones in her play clothes, she never, and I do stress this, had her hair styled in this way. That is why I would love to see how her hair was styled the night of the Christmas dinner at the White's house. That was the night the Ramsey's said she fell asleep in the car. They claim they put her to bed without waking her, and never saw her again. JMO

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindysnow3
    I am another that has brought up Jonbenet's hairstyle the night of her death. Not so much the hairtie colors, but just look at all of the pictures, even the ones in her play clothes, she never, and I do stress this, had her hair styled in this way. That is why I would love to see how her hair was styled the night of the Christmas dinner at the White's house. That was the night the Ramsey's said she fell asleep in the car. They claim they put her to bed without waking her, and never saw her again. JMO
    I agree it points to a possibility that the killer played with and styled her hair. I agree it should have been thoroughly investigated and not brushed aside. I am sure any mother would know if she was in the habit of tying two hair ties into her child's hair at any time whether the party or after the party while JBR was asleep. I thought there were photos of JBR at the party so that could be checked. But now I've found some sources who say no pictures were taken at the Whites' party. However no one cares about this aspect. I never see discussion of it. There is one bit of testimony by Patsy that she usually put one hair tie on JBR for bedtime. I did not see detailed testimony on what she did if anything to JBR's hair that night while she was sound asleep.

    There is also the question of the hair ties scattered in JBR's room. Does this point to the intruder trying to find them in the dark to style his victim's hair. The style with two ties is not a usual one for JBR. By the way Karr does not mention anything about the ties in his confession. Only stroking and playing with her hair. If the killer told him the story , the killer may have omitted the part about the styling and hair ties.

    Karr did say the killer cut a lock of hair and kept it. I don't see any report of a fresh noticeable cut of hair on her head. I wonder if it was even looked for. However, a careful person would cut from several parts, subtly, not cut across in a way that it would be obvious, It might have simply been a few missing strands - difficult to see a fresh cut in the tangle of hair.

  4. #4
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    Also I find interesting is she is in beauty pageants, alot of interest in her hair, (Idon't know) but yet noone questions this??

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindysnow3
    Also I find interesting is she is in beauty pageants, alot of interest in her hair, (Idon't know) but yet noone questions this??
    People pick and choose what to focus on, don't they? Like the pineapple bowl and the ransom note. While ignoring the hair. It's peculiar.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspidistra
    I agree it points to a possibility that the killer played with and styled her hair. I agree it should have been thoroughly investigated and not brushed aside. I am sure any mother would know if she was in the habit of tying two hair ties into her child's hair at any time whether the party or after the party while JBR was asleep. I thought there were photos of JBR at the party so that could be checked. But now I've found some sources who say no pictures were taken at the Whites' party. However no one cares about this aspect. I never see discussion of it. There is one bit of testimony by Patsy that she usually put one hair tie on JBR for bedtime. I did not see detailed testimony on what she did if anything to JBR's hair that night while she was sound asleep.

    There is also the question of the hair ties scattered in JBR's room. Does this point to the intruder trying to find them in the dark to style his victim's hair. The style with two ties is not a usual one for JBR. By the way Karr does not mention anything about the ties in his confession. Only stroking and playing with her hair. If the killer told him the story , the killer may have omitted the part about the styling and hair ties.

    Karr did say the killer cut a lock of hair and kept it. I don't see any report of a fresh noticeable cut of hair on her head. I wonder if it was even looked for. However, a careful person would cut from several parts, subtly, not cut across in a way that it would be obvious, It might have simply been a few missing strands - difficult to see a fresh cut in the tangle of hair.


    I'm sure the Whites were interviewed and told all they know. They were there, they know how JB's hair was styled. BTW, where did you read there were no pictures taken at the Whites that night? I think this is wrong.

    According to Patsy in one of her police interviews she thought those things on the floor were not hairties but the fabric pieces that went with the little loom that is sitting on her dresser in the crimescene photos. You know the kind of little play loom children make potholders with? Anyway, that's according to Patsy.

    "Karr did say......" Are you still believing Karr?

  7. #7
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    http://www.acandyrose.com/12271996jonbenet04.gif

    Third paragraph describes two ponytails, etc. in Jonbenet's hair.
    Autopsy report

  8. #8
    Thinking aloud about the hairdo -

    what if JBR took a whack to the head (accidental or otherwise) and the staging of the strangulation took place to cover for the accidental or otherwise head bash.

    Perhaps the perp (PR or otherwise) styled the hair in a way that would cover the head whack injury so it would not be readily noticeable (would there have been a noticeable lump? or skull divot?)


    Before you Law and Order/CSI buffs chime in and say "everyone knows it would show up at autopsy", I'll head you off by saying anyone who has just participated in/witnessed the fatal headwhacking of a child and is in the process of covering it up is probably not thinking as clearly as us armchair detectives at WS 10 years later....and may believe that restyling the hair to cover the lump/divot will cover for the real injury - the headwhack....

    (...in my humble opinion with the caveat that I have had 2 beers tonight and I am a lightweight....imhowtctihh2btaiaal )

  9. #9
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    I don't think the color of the hair ties is nearly as important as the big brown butterfly hair clip she was wearing when found. I think it's long since been established what her hairstyle was at the White's since LE had the photos from the White's party quite some time ago. They use some of them to show to PR and JR in the 8/00 interviews to refresh their memories as to what clothing they wore to the White's. None of the photos at the White's have been made public.

    This is an autopsy photo that shows the big butterfly clip that JBR was found to be wearing in her hair...

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...tid=2017&stc=1
    (it's not gross, just a close-up of the hair showing the clip and part of one hand)

    Seeing as the syle and ornaments are different from Patsy's testimony about how JBR's hair was normally styled when she was put to bed, I just see the hairstyle as ulitarian (get it out of the way to put the garrot on) as well as additional staging (style the hair differently than how it was normally styled).

    If I recall correctly, the housekeeper said that JBR's hair ties were kept in a basket in her room. In one of the photos of JBR's room it appears that a scrunchie hair tie is around one of the bedposts and something else that looks like it may be a hair tie bellow it on the bedpost (some pink ribbon type thing)...
    http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

    I would imagine it would be known by LE whether or not the things Patsy believes to be the cloth bands used to make the potholders are hair ties or not as these cloth bands are all uniform (although vary in color), far too large to be used normally as hair ties, and hair ties would vary in size, shape and what they're made of.

    What I do find interesting about the plastic potholder making device, is whether or not the prongs may have been the cause of the "stun gun" marks on JBR. I'd be curious to know what the size of the gap was between the two corner prongs, and I can see if one used it to strike someone if held at a certain angle, it may be that only those two corner prongs would connect with the skin and leave a mark... could be that's why LE took a photo of it...
    http://www.acandyrose.com/000dresser.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PagingDrDetect
    I don't think the color of the hair ties is nearly as important as the big brown butterfly hair clip she was wearing when found. I think it's long since been established what her hairstyle was at the White's since LE had the photos from the White's party quite some time ago. They use some of them to show to PR and JR in the 8/00 interviews to refresh their memories as to what clothing they wore to the White's. None of the photos at the White's have been made public.

    This is an autopsy photo that shows the big butterfly clip that JBR was found to be wearing in her hair...

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...tid=2017&stc=1
    (it's not gross, just a close-up of the hair showing the clip and part of one hand)

    Seeing as the syle and ornaments are different from Patsy's testimony about how JBR's hair was normally styled when she was put to bed, I just see the hairstyle as ulitarian (get it out of the way to put the garrot on) as well as additional staging (style the hair differently than how it was normally styled).

    If I recall correctly, the housekeeper said that JBR's hair ties were kept in a basket in her room. In one of the photos of JBR's room it appears that a scrunchie hair tie is around one of the bedposts and something else that looks like it may be a hair tie bellow it on the bedpost (some pink ribbon type thing)...
    http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

    I would imagine it would be known by LE whether or not the things Patsy believes to be the cloth bands used to make the potholders are hair ties or not as these cloth bands are all uniform (although vary in color), far too large to be used normally as hair ties, and hair ties would vary in size, shape and what they're made of.

    What I do find interesting about the plastic potholder making device, is whether or not the prongs may have been the cause of the "stun gun" marks on JBR. I'd be curious to know what the size of the gap was between the two corner prongs, and I can see if one used it to strike someone if held at a certain angle, it may be that only those two corner prongs would connect with the skin and leave a mark... could be that's why LE took a photo of it...
    http://www.acandyrose.com/000dresser.jpg
    I can't make out the big brown butterfly clip you say is in the picture. Since it isn't in the autopsy report and I have yet to read about it anywhere else but by you on this forum I'm going to surmise that this is not a fact and merely speculation. If you want to be taken seriously about this you'll need to post some kind of proof. That picture is not proof.


  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by trixie
    I can't make out the big brown butterfly clip you say is in the picture. Since it isn't in the autopsy report and I have yet to read about it anywhere else but by you on this forum I'm going to surmise that this is not a fact and merely speculation. If you want to be taken seriously about this you'll need to post some kind of proof. That picture is not proof.
    Then apparently you have no eyes because that plastic brown hair clip takes up half the photo, which is an AUTOPSY photo. Here, I'll make it easy for you and circle the hair clip in red...
    http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Wings/5_1a.jpg
    Incidently, "butterfly" refers to the type... a plastic hair clip with panels or "wings" that open (much like a pair of scissors) two rows of prongs that hold the hair when the "wing" panels are released...
    http://www.todaystylist.com/butrfly_...%20big%202.jpg

    The photo is in Dr. Lee's book... Cracking More Cases, The Forensic Science of Solving Crimes by Dr. Henry C. Lee with Thomas W.O'Neil, and appears on plate 4. A summary can be found at this site which includes the photo...
    http://www.geradts.com/anil/ij/vol_0...age001ex2.html

    There has also been much discussion of this in other forums, some of which is here...
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ight=hair+clip

    The autopsy report describes the upper ponytail to be held together by a blue elastic band covered by a blue cloth hair tie. Clearly that is not what is pictured here. Either Dr. Wecht fudged on the report or the brown plastic clip is one that was used in autopsy room to keep her hair out of the way for the purpose of taking the photos. That you would have to ask Dr. Wecht.

    Happy now?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PagingDrDetect
    Then apparently you have no eyes because that plastic brown hair clip takes up half the photo, which is an AUTOPSY photo. Here, I'll make it easy for you and circle the hair clip in red...
    http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Wings/5_1a.jpg
    Incidently, "butterfly" refers to the type... a plastic hair clip with panels or "wings" that open (much like a pair of scissors) two rows of prongs that hold the hair when the "wing" panels are released...
    http://www.todaystylist.com/butrfly_...%20big%202.jpg

    The photo is in Dr. Lee's book... Cracking More Cases, The Forensic Science of Solving Crimes by Dr. Henry C. Lee with Thomas W.O'Neil, and appears on plate 4. A summary can be found at this site which includes the photo...
    http://www.geradts.com/anil/ij/vol_0...age001ex2.html

    There has also been much discussion of this in other forums, some of which is here...
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ight=hair+clip

    The autopsy report describes the upper ponytail to be held together by a blue elastic band covered by a blue cloth hair tie. Clearly that is not what is pictured here. Either Dr. Wecht fudged on the report or the brown plastic clip is one that was used in autopsy room to keep her hair out of the way for the purpose of taking the photos. That you would have to ask Dr. Wecht.

    Happy now?
    In one of your links, posters are having the same probelm trixie is in identifying the clip. I do not see it either. I see the object that is reported by you to be a clip, but I still cannot make it out.l I guess I have no eyes.dang. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, dunnno.
    from your link:
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat
    You and I have the same pet, RR - but I can't really tell that's a hair clip. Just looks like a dark something or other
    Quote Originally Posted by sheila808
    It looks like a white rubber band to me with something dark underneath her head. If you follow that one bright highlight down and to the right at the end is what appears to me to be the rubber band.
    Quote Originally Posted by river rat

    What am I seeing?! Agh - it jumped out clear as bell to me before!
    Quote Originally Posted by sheila808
    Does a version of this picture exist where it is not zoomed in? I still say I see a white rubber band in her hair about one inch from the left and one inch from the bottom, if that makes sense. The darks stuff, I have no idea, maybe dried blood in her hair?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PagingDrDetect

    What I do find interesting about the plastic potholder making device, is whether or not the prongs may have been the cause of the "stun gun" marks on JBR. I'd be curious to know what the size of the gap was between the two corner prongs, and I can see if one used it to strike someone if held at a certain angle, it may be that only those two corner prongs would connect with the skin and leave a mark... could be that's why LE took a photo of it...
    http://www.acandyrose.com/000dresser.jpg
    ~~~~~~~~
    ....Or if a child fell on the 'potholder making device' after being struck or rolled on it when being strangled......could it make the 'stungun looking marks'....

  14. #14
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    I don't think that's a hair clip but is some sort of medical instrument. There is a black cord going off to the side ( or is that a shadow?) from the thing and it's also a dull dark black with a screw. Hair clips are usually shiny and plastic. Moeb's post #47 shows an enlarged view.

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ight=hair+clip

  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by JBean
    In one of your links, posters are having the same probelm trixie is in identifying the clip. I do not see it either. I see the object that is reported by you to be a clip, but I still cannot make it out.l I guess I have no eyes.dang. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, dunnno.
    I'm finding it hard to believe that people don't know what it is and can't recognize it. It's been the most popular type of hair clip for years and years. Around 1996 it seemed that EVERYONE wore them. They come in all sizes from very large to teensy tiny so they can be used to hold back all the hair on the head or just small strands. This one appears to be medium sized, and I actually own one almost exactly like it. I own several of these in all sizes. I'll try to find a better photo of one since the only one I found in a quick search was a drawing.

    Ok, I found a much better photo...
    http://www.angelicasaromatics.wahmal...6cm_claw_t.jpg


    Originally Posted by angelwings
    ....Or if a child fell on the 'potholder making device' after being struck or rolled on it when being strangled......could it make the 'stungun looking marks'....
    Could be that as well. I think the gap between the two wounds is a lot bigger than the gap between the two prongs at the corners of the potholder device... hard to tell from pictures. I'm tempted to buy one of the damn things just to measure it.

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